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Author Topic: Lever Espresso Machines  (Read 83229 times)

galumay

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« Reply #100 on: 16/10/2012, 10:07 PM »
I remember the Quickmill thread when the first one turned up on HB, looks like a nice machine, will do the job very nicely Lacehim.

I reckon it would be up there with the Izzo & Bosco in terms of quality and finish.

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Wonder

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« Reply #101 on: 20/10/2012, 08:51 PM »
I too remember the thread on HB,  the video wasn't the best but the machine looked great..

Can't wait to hear more about it, I'm nearly jealous... :)

I understand less, the more I learn

Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #102 on: 20/10/2012, 09:29 PM »
I have now had the Bezzera Strega at home for several months and was the first person in Australia to use one

Haven't faulted it yet
It's just churns out one great coffee after another

I do mix it up a little from time to time with different pre infusion times and methods
I am very happy with my purchase and the only regret is that I should have done it sooner

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 5 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

C-man

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« Reply #103 on: 21/10/2012, 11:22 AM »
Congrats Lacy!

you must be excited......

and broke!
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BLrdFX

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« Reply #104 on: 23/11/2012, 02:15 AM »
Thanks guys, it's reassuring to know that.  With such a big purchase I was a bit concerned about picking the right machine.  This machine will hopefully last me a long time.

  I hope the wife doesn't freak out when she gets the visa bill!

Maybe if you hang an expensive bit of jewelry on the lever she won't notice the big machine holding the jewelry ;D

My wife rolls her eyes every time I modify one of my hobbies or add to one of them; I think a cruise is in her future...
Posted speed limit, 186,000 miles per second, "because it's the law".  I think I need more coffee to get there :-)

K_Bean_Coffee

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« Reply #105 on: 14/01/2017, 04:56 PM »
Hi all,
I'm a huge fan of the Profitec Pro 800.  After approx 7-8 machines over 10+ years I think this is the end point.  It's an absolute beauty.  It's a true "classic Italian" dipper lever machine with a PID hidden away behind the drip tray. 

Video of me using this beauty, set to music :)
https://youtu.be/OM9N385V0BQ

Brett H

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« Reply #106 on: 15/01/2017, 07:43 PM »
Yep!  What's the price-point compared to the old Strega and UK's Linoleum R1??

Do you actually use the PID and if so, how often?
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

K_Bean_Coffee

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« Reply #107 on: 15/01/2017, 08:19 PM »
Yep!  What's the price-point compared to the old Strega and UK's Linoleum R1??
Do you actually use the PID and if so, how often?
Hi Brett,
It's a class above the Strega but you pay for the privilege.  RRP is approx $4700.  It's a dream machine though.  Whisper quiet (pumpless) when plumbed in.  Also, a true dipper with a classic CMS group.
I know the Strega well.  It's OK for the $, but it's really an entry level Lever with compromises to keep the price down.
Cheers :) Paul

Brett H

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« Reply #108 on: 16/01/2017, 12:58 AM »
Shame I'm not closer to you to try one out.  Agree with your respectful assessment of the Strega. I love levers (have two now) but even at 2600 the Strega came up short for me.  Enjoy mate!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #109 on: 16/01/2017, 09:32 AM »
Hi Brett,
It's a class above the Strega but you pay for the privilege.  RRP is approx $4700.  It's a dream machine though.  Whisper quiet (pumpless) when plumbed in.  Also, a true dipper with a classic CMS group.
I know the Strega well.  It's OK for the $, but it's really an entry level Lever with compromises to keep the price down.
Cheers :) Paul

How can you say the Strega is entry level
There is more than one model

All mechanical devises are built to a design
Any design can be enhanced or compromised

I happen to feel that the Strega has been enhanced by incorporating commercial and prosumer components

KK

Bezzera Strega Lever: BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 5 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

K_Bean_Coffee

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« Reply #110 on: 16/01/2017, 09:52 AM »
Yep!  What's the price-point compared to the old Strega and UK's Linoleum R1??
Do you actually use the PID and if so, how often?
Hi Brett,
Yes, I use the PID to get the best temp for a blend.  If I have a coffee that's a little acidic I'll increase temp.  If it needs a little more brightness/florals I'll decrease temp.
Cheers :) Paul

K_Bean_Coffee

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« Reply #111 on: 16/01/2017, 10:05 AM »
How can you say the Strega is entry level
Hi KK,
I know you love your Strega.
It's certainly not entry level as a machine but it's entry level as a lever.  High end dipper levers are $4.5k+
The things I don't like about the Strega are:
1. No PID
2. Plastic cover on top of the lever.
3. Domestic pressure stat.
4. It needs more weight at the back at it can tip forward when you pull the lever.
5. You can't add pressure during extraction.  You can reduce pressure by holding then lever back, but you can't increase pressure by pushing the lever forward.
6. The pump is noisy.  Noisy pumps are my major gripe with all Bezzeras.
7. With the HX design there's no way to run silently (without the pump)
An aftermarket PID fitting is a good option but by the time you pay for that you may as well have spent a little more to get a real dipper.
If I had $3k I would be buying a quality HX with and e61 would be my choice.  There are so any great HX machines at just under $3k.
Sorry to sound negative but believe me, all the points above are my honest assessments.
If you have a Strega, take a look at something like a Profitec Pro 500 and you'll be blown away by the difference.  It's apples and oranges.
Cheers, Paul :)

Brett H

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« Reply #112 on: 16/01/2017, 11:25 AM »
Hi KK,
I know you love your Strega.
It's certainly not entry level as a machine but it's entry level as a lever.  High end dipper levers are $4.5k+
The things I don't like about the Strega are:
1. No PID
2. Plastic cover on top of the lever.
3. Domestic pressure stat.
4. It needs more weight at the back at it can tip forward when you pull the lever.
5. You can't add pressure during extraction.  You can reduce pressure by holding then lever back, but you can't increase pressure by pushing the lever forward.
6. The pump is noisy.  Noisy pumps are my major gripe with all Bezzeras.
7. With the HX design there's no way to run silently (without the pump)
An aftermarket PID fitting is a good option but by the time you pay for that you may as well have spent a little more to get a real dipper.
If I had $3k I would be buying a quality HX with and e61 would be my choice.  There are so any great HX machines at just under $3k.
Sorry to sound negative but believe me, all the points above are my honest assessments.
If you have a Strega, take a look at something like a Profitec Pro 500 and you'll be blown away by the difference.  It's apples and oranges.
Cheers, Paul :)

I completely agree and it's funny you say but when I had $3k I tried the Strega and went straight out and bought a HX PID!  Luckily for my bank balance at the time this wasn't available!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

K_Bean_Coffee

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« Reply #113 on: 16/01/2017, 12:09 PM »
PIDed HX.....  I'm guessing that's a Giotto V3 PID Brett.  Am I correct?

Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #114 on: 16/01/2017, 01:59 PM »
I have tried other levers from the small to the large even 2 group commercial
All good machines

Been roasting and drinking coffee before the age of 10
Of course those early years were with my grandmother
My extended family have been in the restaurant and cafe trade for decades

What I am trying to convey is that any machine can be sensational when the operator knows what they are doing and knows the roasted beans they are using
A good operator will and can adjust ones routine to suit the situation

For operators on the upgrade path, a Strega is an easier machine to use - while giving them equal footing to other machines equaling superior coffee

It could be argued that a machine with to many choices can be a hindrance

Let me further say that I also appreciate other styles of coffee where a machine is not nessasary  :angel:

KK


Bezzera Strega Lever: BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 5 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Lwowiak

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« Reply #115 on: 16/01/2017, 04:27 PM »
Hi Brett,
Yes, I use the PID to get the best temp for a blend.  If I have a coffee that's a little acidic I'll increase temp.  If it needs a little more brightness/florals I'll decrease temp.
Cheers :) Paul

So, if your coffee is a little acidic, you increase the  temp. Please explain what and how, as the lever is a huge chunk of metal, and I am interested how you can accurately increase its temp. Where is the temp measured and how is the increase occurring?

If it needs more brightness/ florals (acidity in my language) then you decrease the temp. So at higher temps you are getting a lacklustre coffee, and at lower temps it is acidic. Too many variables that are not clarified, such as depth of roast, type of bean etc, etc.

I am a firm believer in simplicity, and am not convinced a PID is needed on a properly built and designed lever. Temperature stability is more important.

Out of interest, if your last coffee today is perfect, and you leave your grinder at the same setting, what is the result tomorrow morning (using the same coffee as today), when you:
Pull 6 espressos, one after the other, with a reasonable time lag in between for prep etc?
Assume machine has heated up (say 30-40 minutes).
For Example, using the same dose, and grind, pull 6  espressos without any adjustments.
What is the result in each cup, and how much does each pour differ?
1 Grp Bosco; Macap M4D; Gino Rossi RR65; FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster, KKTO.

K_Bean_Coffee

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« Reply #116 on: 16/01/2017, 05:16 PM »
Hi again,
The PID allows me to increase or decrease the average group and water temp but there's nothing trivial/exact about it.  There's science and art and with the lever it's mostly art.  Too complicated for a short forum post to be honest.  This is stuff for conversation :)
Cheers
Paul


Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #117 on: 16/01/2017, 05:42 PM »
Regarding roast depth
I have stated on many occasions that the roast depth for espresso and the close correlation of the set temperature band on all espresso machines

Light roasts are not suited to espresso - even if the brew temperature can be adjusted
The reason for this is due to the coffee that's roasted on the light side - needs a longer steep time

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 5 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Lwowiak

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« Reply #118 on: 16/01/2017, 06:36 PM »
All Levers are wonderful, it just takes the right person to bring out the magic in them.

Some believe that only one type of group, made by a particular manufacturer surpasses all others.  ::) ::)
Others state that by using a smaller group size (less than the industry normal 58mm), the results are superior due to the depth and shape of the "unique" basket. :angel: Personally I think that not having a 58mm basket size, is a disadvantage.  >:D

Classifying certain levers as high end is nothing more than "shop talk". It is hard to define what makes a machine high end. Price is not necessarily a true indicator of quality. Some high end espresso machines (expensive) are very temperamental, high maintenance and prone to break down.

My imperfect (no precision laser cut panels here), lack lustre (no PID or renowned group) lever is still going strong, is very low maintenance and still manages to produce sensational coffee. The design is proven and tested (over decades), and copied by many. Coming from an artisan workshop, it would be sacrilegious to defile it hipster style, with unnecessary electronics.
1 Grp Bosco; Macap M4D; Gino Rossi RR65; FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster, KKTO.

Brett H

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« Reply #119 on: 16/01/2017, 10:33 PM »
What, not even Underglow lights and spinning light-up dials??

That's not a coffee machine, it's an homage to the Amish :D

Surely any lever with a rotary pump and 4+ litre boiler can be considered high-end if merely for the thermal stability and commercial parts.  I'm not interested in a PID because I don't drink lighter roasts as espresso but the bragging rights conflicts me. 

I mean sure we talk about category killers but I'm here to talk coffee not be a snob; but, if the old QM Achilles dies Ill come looking for a great price K-bean!  I will expect Underglow!!!

P.s I'm running low on coffee L ;)
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

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« Reply #120 on: 16/01/2017, 11:27 PM »
...... can be considered high-end if merely for the thermal stability and commercial parts.  I'm not interested in a PID because I don't drink lighter roasts as espresso but the bragging rights conflicts me.
Spot on Brett.  My lever with no pump in use (plumbed), 3L boiler and PID is great.  If the PID wasn't there I would still love the machine, and keep it.  The PID is nice to have but it's not something I have to have.  Cheers :)

Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #121 on: 17/01/2017, 10:01 PM »
I can also say that the pull down handle design is superior on the Strega
They use a pair of large roller bearings to take the pressure and to operate smoother with equilibrium as opposed to a pin that wears

And that is why they use a cover - But if you don't like a cover it can be removed and you can see the movement in all its glory   

It will take a while but other manufacturers will follow suit
I look at design and its implementation

Bezzera Strega Lever: BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 5 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

K_Bean_Coffee

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« Reply #122 on: 18/01/2017, 11:21 AM »
I see that you love your Strega KK.  That's awesome :)  We all have different opinions and sharing them (in a constructive way) is one of the beauties of forums.  Cheers :)  Paul

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« Reply #123 on: 21/04/2017, 08:02 PM »
Just thought this thread is the right one for me to share this vid of me pulling a shot on the Profitec Pro 800.
https://youtu.be/OM9N385V0BQ

askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #124 on: 22/04/2017, 12:03 PM »
Nice camera work and great musical accompaniment to the making of an espresso looks like a great shot that you pulled there
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

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