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BP

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« Reply #50 on: 18/02/2016, 08:59 PM »
Hi there

I was able to buy a 1300 watt TO.  It was made in Japan.  I saw others, made in China, most were lower powered, 600w and up.  Oven cooking here is not common so these appliances and not stocked by many shops.  There was one Chinese model at 1300w but it looked flimsy and possibly a problem child.  So I bought the reliable Japanese Sanaky brand, 1300w.

Now for the bits to make it all work.  I will call in and up date but it'll take time.  I know things like the workings of the armature for the wiper motor and temperature data logger are still a bit of a curious mystery to me. But the fog is lifting.

Cheers, and I appreciate the helpful advice from KK and BH and CF very much.

BP

Basic Barista

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« Reply #51 on: 14/03/2016, 12:39 PM »
Hello, I'm new to this whole forum business so I hope I'm doing this right. I'd like to ask a question about dose vs grind size when extracting a perfect shot of espresso.

What I aim for is a nice firm dry biscuit that has an imprint of the shower screen in it, I look for the time to be within 25-30 seconds, pour to be steady and consistent, with a persistent crema and a tiger's tail pattern on the surface.

The problem I am having is that recently I have started working at a new cafe and while most customers are happy with my coffee's and have often stated I make the best coffees in town, there are other customers that have reported a funny taste in the coffee's recently. We have in the last month started using a digital grinder, and myself and the other barista are now able to make adjustments a lot easier but it has lead to some confusion about what to actually change in terms of grind size or dose amount to achieve a good tasting coffee.

As I mentioned above, I look for the typical signs of espresso and would rather have more dose in the basket and a finer grind which achieves the signs I am looking for, however, the other barista is now wanting to go back to using the manual grinder as she believes it is the grinder that has been making the funny taste.

I would like to investigate whether perhaps the funny taste has more to do with the settings I have been working with rather than the grinder itself. And by funny taste I am unsure exactly what they meant as I haven't been part of the conversations when they are talking about it. I also wonder if perhaps it is because when I pour the beverages I am careful to ensure I maintain the crema on top of the beverages so perhaps because they are not used to tasting the actual coffee prior to it mixing with the milk, they aren't aware that it is in fact the normal bitter taste that they are talking about.

Thank you in advance for your feedback and just to clarify what my actual question is: when using the digital grinder, should we be setting the dose amount to be higher to achieve a good espresso or have less dose and focus more on the grind size to achieve the time, pour and crema we are looking for?

Thanks.

Brett H

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« Reply #52 on: 14/03/2016, 02:59 PM »
Great question.  Wish I was qualified to answer it!!  Oh, what the heck:

Make a plunger coffee/long black with the beans to rule them out.

Find out who the talkers are and make them a coffee adding the milk after stirring in the creama.

Run the grinders side by side.

Bear in mind that new grinders take a little time to settle in.... Not the grinder itself as much as the relationship between staff and the new grinder.

Keep in touch mate!  There will be real pros along shortly to expand and improve my basic tips above.
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Basic Barista

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« Reply #53 on: 14/03/2016, 10:38 PM »
Thanks Brett,

I appreciate your feedback and look forward to hearing from others as well  ;D

Thanks again  :coffee2:

GaryatGala

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« Reply #54 on: 14/03/2016, 11:44 PM »
Hello Basic Barista and welcome.
Will ask a few questions first and attempt to get an idea before delving deeper.
What grinder and espresso machine are you using?
I presume the digital grinder is grind on demand.
Do you have a small set of scales that can weigh the portafilter basket with grounds in it?
One thing we have to establish first is consistency in dosage and that,s where scales come in, even when using a Mazzer Robur.
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Fresh Coffee

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« Reply #55 on: 15/03/2016, 12:51 PM »
"....when using the digital grinder, should we be setting the dose amount to be higher to achieve a good espresso or have less dose and focus more on the grind size to achieve the time, pour and crema we are looking for?...
Thanks.

Hi there.

Not trying to be facetious, serious post please bear with me just trying to help:

Do you think there is a "funny taste",or not? You seem to only be going on what a client allegedly said to someone else...the other barista?...If so, does she think there is a "funny taste", or not?

If not, why try to accommodate something that someone said when its basically hearsay?

If you think there really is a "funny taste", you will need to determine what you think is going on first.

After that, the question cannot be answered in a straight forward way because:
a) it depends on the individual who is setting the grinder and what he/she desires in the character of the brew. By changing grind VS dose VS tamp you get different characters.
b) we don't know the modus operandi of your cafe being how do you make the coffee /  what is the desired effect? Standard filters ("baskets") and split pours a la "standard espresso" spec OR, std filters no split (ie double dose everything / use naked etc), Larger than std filters, split pour, OR, larger than std filter no split / naked.
c) additionally we don't know the character of your coffee supply or what it cups like in any of these scenarios nor in the particular size of cups you use.

I understand this may sound difficult but it is nothing more than the reality in a coffee world where no one wants to do anything "standard".

If you desire to have the same character in the coffee, as you used to have when using the previous grinder, there is no reason why the "digital" (presumably a programmable grind on demand) grinder cannot be set up to achieve that. But you have to do the leg work by changing grind VS dose VS tamp and cupping, until you achieve the desired result. You are johnnyonthespot, and we are not  :)

What will you do, if the changes you make to grind/dose/tamp are all good, just different in character?  You have to decide which you like best, and that is what you will present to your clients. That is, you are not trying to present to hundreds of clients, what you think each on e wants, you are presenting to them what you, the pro baristas and your coffee supplier, decide is a great product to sell to them. Its impossible to keep individual clients happy if they all want something different....Do you see where I am coming from?

The other thing that comes to mind is the following and it has to do with client / coffee psychology, and again, it is up to you to try and interpret what these people have told you so that you may or may not even bother making any changes.

a) Is the "new" coffee good, but just different? What do YOU think? If so, why change back to the "old" scenario?
b) Often when clients see a change (eg new / different type equipment / grinder), they feel they need to make an observation. If there is a real difference what does it mean if the coffee is still great? Not all clients have a good palate or know what they are talking about. Do you trust these clients to have told you something legit, or is it just a bum steer? What do YOU think?
c) It is EXTREMELY difficult to make an observation about a new coffee VS the old coffee, when the old coffee is gone and only exists in the memory of the adjudicator. The only legitimate way to make a legitimate comparison is to do a one on one, side by side comparison. Observations made by clients who you really don't know,  with capability of palate and/or bona fides unknown, when relying on their memory of the "old" coffee, have to be treated with a certain level of suspicion AND they can often be proven wrong if you suggest to them that you have now "fixed that problem" and give them another cuppa where you actually didn't change a thing......and they then make the observation that this coffee is great and "back to normal".... Certainly you need to listen to them and treat their observations seriously, but then you need to be able to work out a solution and it may be that you shouldn't actually do anything if YOU don't think there is a need to.

That's all just client psychology.  You are in charge of the coffee making station. You need to be able to understand this stuff and be able to set the equipment to do what you want. That is the essence of a real, professional barista. Seek help certainly (should be your coffee supplier) , but only so that you can learn from your helper, not so the helper does the work for you without you knowing what he's done (which is unfortunately what a lot of "baristas" do)... Remember the old proverb....a man tells a fisherman that he's hungry. The fisherman teaches the hungry man how to fish....he doesn't just give the hungry man a meal or a fish to cook...this way the hungry man will be able to look after himself forever more, instead of relying on others handouts...).

Reiterating a comment above.....you should involve your coffee supplier. If he is a career professional (in this day and age, many aren't....) coffee roaster, he knows the coffee and will be able to help you achieve what he thinks is a good character in the cup....

Lastly. You asked a very good question that shows you are thinking straight. Keep it up, and you will do better than most, who are nothing more than equipment operators who abdicate from all responsibility of the equipment settings  and the end result in the cup, often "blaming" the coffee (and supplier) for something that is actually happening at their own work station (most often, because they don't know how to set a grinder up to a machine for best results with the supply of beans...its a vicious circle) ;)

Are you cupping first up each morning to see if you need to make any adjustments before opening for biz, and then occasionally cupping through the day to make small adjustments? This is a must in a pro outfit, and if you are already doing this, all the above is a moot point as you presumably already have good coffee (so what does it matter if someone thinks something changed...)

Hope that helps  ;)

EDIT...I should say, the capital letters in references to "YOU" above are nothing to do with *yelling*. They are to indicate that in fact what YOU think really is important in the scheme of things. I could have bolded lower case letters but that's just a chore and far easier to just write the capitals...
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DizzBean

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« Reply #56 on: 23/02/2017, 02:51 PM »
Hello all I am new to this forum but have posted in the "New Here" area already, but now I have some questions. I am soooooo tired of researching and NOT finding the information I want, so I am hoping that someone here can either answer my questions (using their infinite coffee wisdom} OR direct me to the RIGHT place to find my answers. Pretty Please, please, please ...... ;D

Question 1: I have been advised that a gas powered coffee machine is the best kind for a mobile business. If this is correct who does the installation or are there places that provide the machine and installation???
Question 2: If not a gas machine then what would be the most cost effective and reliable commercial machine to buy (rent to buy). I am thinking about an Expobar Ruggero 2 Group (spelling?).
Question 2: What is the correct way to plumb in a coffee machine in a mobile business. I have a small trailer van, not a van(vehicle)

I understand that my questions may not be particularly basic but if anyone can give me guidance, it would be totally fabulous as I am pulling my hair out looking. Also I am dubious to ask companies for advice as the ones I have sent enquires to just tell me the bare minimum and leave me none the wiser (sort of).

Anyhoo, thanks to all who read this.
Cheers
DizzBean  :coffee2:
DizzyB :-D

Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #57 on: 23/02/2017, 03:10 PM »
Both Gas and Electric setups are used

With a Gas machine system you will still need electricity for other equipment via a generator

I have personally seen more all Electric setups than Gas / Electric

Advice
Do a phesability study on cost to setup yourself "against" purchasing an existing business "against" purchasing a franchise

You may be surprised

P.S - A Rugaroo is a good workhorse and you are welcome to contact me for advice when required

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mycuppa

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« Reply #58 on: 23/02/2017, 08:36 PM »
There are not many gas espresso machines on the market. I know Fracino is typically a brand that that is popular.

Some installations require a type B gas certification. Why I know this is because my Type B guy in Melbourne was engaged to do a certification recently for a mobile coffee van that had a gas fired espresso machine.

Gas is perhaps a less common system, but it does have numerous advantages over electric. Generators are items that require maintenance and have lower overall reliability.

Gas installation requires a licensed plumber and depending upon the implementation may require inspection and certification by the local State Energy Safe. This can be many thousand $$, but so is a good compressor.

The other issue you face is that you will need electricity for the grinder and maybe a few other appliances like pumps, grinders and the espresso machine itself, so you need a generator anyway it's just a smaller unit for gas powered espresso machine.

Plumbing in a machine is very simple and you can call a plumber if you get stuck. The most important piece you have not mentioned is water filtration........by far the most critical system in the coffee solution for a mobile operator.....sometimes the water supply is questionable at events.

You need water tanks and waste......and also for hand cleaning and rinsing.....so you might be best to actually find someone with an existing van setup and make a note of everything they have installed......it's not simple and getting everything implemented in a small space requires clever thinking.....not just connecting pipes, etc.

Good luck

The Expobar is a good choice for a mobile system.


DizzBean

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« Reply #59 on: 24/02/2017, 12:01 AM »
Thanks for those answers.  ^-^
I already have a van with  plumbed sinks(hot and cold), electricity is all wired and certified by a licenced electrician,  15amp with an inlet (for coffee machine) and four 10amp double power points that will draw power from another inlet.
I was asking about the gas set up because I am trying to get out of using a large generator, my capital has been depleted by unexpected expenses ( I had to have the whole thing rewired) and I still have so much to obtain.
I want to be able to set up in a paddock somewhere, if I am asked to do so, but that will require an independent power supply and I do not want to spend $6000 on a generator.
With the two inlets I thought I may be able to use two smaller generators instead of the bigger more expensive unit, but if gas will help me to make the power supply dilemma easier, I am willing to consider it.
As for the coffee machine plumbing/water filtration, I am looking for any suggestions that will help me to get the right equipment. For example a water pump to move the water from the tank to the coffee machine. Does anyone know where I can find that sort of information, and please don't say Google because I need more than a "spider" search engine can give me.
Once again any recommendations of reliable information sources, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks to all
DizzBean.
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« Reply #60 on: 24/02/2017, 12:16 AM »
you shouldn't need a lot of juice to run a two group machine I would personally be leaning towards a generator as you can fire up other items like fridge, grinder etc at the same time 

small generators are going for very reasonable prices at the moment and youd need to look into the viability but im pretty sure a small one would do the job and you can hire larger ones for events at very reasonable prices

ive always prefered to own my own equipment but you can choose to rent to own as well and there's a lot of great and reasonably priced options for two groups - id suggest going to a showroom and having a look at whats available before making a selection

you could try contacting some of the sponsors here to see if they can help point you in the right direction 

eel free to PM me also if you would like some additional pointers / showroom recommendations

best,

pat
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

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« Reply #61 on: 25/02/2017, 12:51 PM »
Thanks for those answers.  ^-^
I already have a van with  plumbed sinks(hot and cold), electricity is all wired and certified by a licenced electrician,  15amp with an inlet (for coffee machine) and four 10amp double power points that will draw power from another inlet.
I was asking about the gas set up because I am trying to get out of using a large generator, my capital has been depleted by unexpected expenses ( I had to have the whole thing rewired) and I still have so much to obtain.
I want to be able to set up in a paddock somewhere, if I am asked to do so, but that will require an independent power supply and I do not want to spend $6000 on a generator.
With the two inlets I thought I may be able to use two smaller generators instead of the bigger more expensive unit, but if gas will help me to make the power supply dilemma easier, I am willing to consider it.
As for the coffee machine plumbing/water filtration, I am looking for any suggestions that will help me to get the right equipment. For example a water pump to move the water from the tank to the coffee machine. Does anyone know where I can find that sort of information, and please don't say Google because I need more than a "spider" search engine can give me.
Once again any recommendations of reliable information sources, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks to all
DizzBean.

Spending $6K on a generator is probably about right.

If you start looking for cheaper and inferior solutions be prepared to take the risks of failures or interruptions.....and worse the impact upon reputation. Before long the difference between the $4K and $6K generator are about the takings at just a single large event. If there is one item that needs to be the best.....it's the generator.

Getting a gig at a good event is not easy these days. There can be long standing commitments in place with existing suppliers and the absolute 1st option is always going to be given to previous suppliers that had performed well. If something happens and you have to shutdown during the event, you still have to pay all your fees and the organizers are unlikely to invite or allow you back next time. You should also be prepared to compete - often there are multiple outlets offering coffee at big events where a good crowd is expected.

Space is a premium on any mobile setup. Having multiple energy sources means carrying sufficient fuel for each.

A coffee machine tech, marine/caravan provider or plumber will be able to help you with water pump solutions. Most of these are typically systems used on boats or caravans to move water and many are small and reliable DC powered systems that can run from either transformers or batteries.

It's simple stuff but you need to have everything in place first so the solution can be designed with the correct fittings and parts, e.g. dimensions, bends, taps, etc. Most of these pumps are tough little units that can run dry for short periods without damaging the pump.

If you don't want to use google, then go and visit a BCF store or a specialize marine supplier and ask for help.

 


Springbok

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« Reply #62 on: 21/07/2017, 01:14 PM »
Hi there,

Ive been missing in action for a bit - work was hard to find and I had to travel far and wide and then I hit a depression  ( me of all people - bigger than most and never been scared of anything ) - it was a humbling experience.

Anyway the mists have cleared and Im back into coffee  - when I last visited there was an active forum where we could chat online in realtime ? I dont see the option here??

Let me know please would love to catch up on a social somewhere.

Cheers,
Springbok
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admin

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« Reply #63 on: 21/07/2017, 03:59 PM »
Hi Springbok, welcome back; sorry to hear you haven't been well; actually I'm guessing you're talking about the chat box, but you're right we've removed that.

Just out of interest, where are you based - in SA or over here in Aus.?


Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #64 on: 21/07/2017, 04:06 PM »
Hi there,

Ive been missing in action for a bit - work was hard to find and I had to travel far and wide and then I hit a depression  ( me of all people - bigger than most and never been scared of anything ) - it was a humbling experience.

Anyway the mists have cleared and Im back into coffee  - when I last visited there was an active forum where we could chat online in realtime ? I dont see the option here??

Let me know please would love to catch up on a social somewhere.

Cheers,
Springbok

Welcome back Springbok
I remember that you always brought the Bilton at the QLD coffee meetings
And I roasted some beans for anyone that wanted me to

We have all been busy
In fact so busy that this is my first post in a while
Reason I am posting now is that I pulled my back out and I'm lying down
 
KK
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Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 4 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Brett H

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« Reply #65 on: 21/07/2017, 09:33 PM »
Take care guys.  Welcome back mate!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Springbok

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« Reply #66 on: 21/07/2017, 11:20 PM »
Thanks guys - Im back in Brisbane - 2015/16 was spent in Whyalla with Onesteel - then they went into administration - then on to Sydney till Feb 17 and Ive been back here since then.

Cheers,
Hottop B, Holey Popper, Dripolator, Lelit Pl 41 plus, Breville Smartgrinder BCG800, 6 x Stovetops, La Sorrentina Robbiati, Bodum Electric Syphon, Bellina Uno Syphon.

admin

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« Reply #67 on: 23/07/2017, 01:17 PM »

We have all been busy
In fact so busy that this is my first post in a while
Reason I am posting now is that I pulled my back out and I'm lying down
 
KK

Hey KK, hope the back improves!!

A

askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #68 on: 24/07/2017, 12:45 PM »
welcome back! yeah its been a bit quiet recently but we're still al kicking around!

I just got back from a 2 day coffee catering gig making coffee for a tennis tournament with my own setup - loved it, be happy to do that again!


Pat
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« Reply #69 on: 10/11/2017, 03:43 AM »
just got back from a one week intensive setting up a brew bar for a coffee roaster in Sydney - boom, nailed it !
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« Reply #70 on: 10/11/2017, 08:39 AM »
just got back from a one week intensive setting up a brew bar for a coffee roaster in Sydney - boom, nailed it !
Ah nice one Pat, that would have been fun as! Love to see photos!
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« Reply #71 on: 11/11/2017, 10:16 AM »
Wow Pat, that’s amazing.  So good to hear you’re keeping your hand in in southern markets.  Bravo sir!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

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« Reply #72 on: 11/11/2017, 01:00 PM »
Ah nice one Pat, that would have been fun as! Love to see photos!

not sure that i have permission to share ill have to follow up on that one but the place looks amazeballs!
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« Reply #73 on: 11/11/2017, 01:02 PM »
Wow Pat, that’s amazing.  So good to hear you’re keeping your hand in in southern markets.  Bravo sir!

thanks i did hear a few times that id achieved more in one week than, er, someone else did in 6 months - so that's high praise indeed!

P
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