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Author Topic: Detailed testing of R120/E8/E6 & E5 with the Londinium Distribution Tool  (Read 1827 times)

Kelsey

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A while ago I posted about the Londinium Distribution Tool & Funnel, which I've been using and found to provide an improvement on the normal routine.

Well Reiss at Londinium decided he wanted to see how much using this tool closed the gap between high-spec grinders (like the Compak R120, which is a similar grinder to the EK43) and lower-footprint grinders like the E5.

He's commissioned a coffee nut with a lot of gear (including a centrifuge) to test on four grinders using both objective scientific tools and subjective blind taste tests.

The results are interesting to say the least!

https://londiniumespresso.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=1586&catid=11&id=1025&limitstart=0


LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

mycuppa

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K, thanks for posting.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to read all through this blog. Or to be honest I just can't stomach nerdy stuff after 12hrs of working with nerdy stuff.

What I will say is that as an owner of the all the above grinders and a whole bunch more kit, here is the practical real world experience.

R120 - a fast deli grinder. Makes absolute rubbish espresso grounds and for this reason I refuse to use it for grinding espresso for my customer orders (note: - we grind around 40 - 60kg a day for customer orders). I ended up buying an R80 as well as a bank of EK43's for espresso grinding.

The R120 does a good job for all other non-espresso duty. In fact, I don't even use it for stovetop because I don't like the resultant particles. Drip, perc or plunger and it's great.

The R120 is an entirely different beast to the Ek43 - different burrs and different design of the ways in which coffee enters and exits. The only similarities they share are relative speed and deli bag formats.

There is a prevailing misconception that afflicts far too many coffee enthusiasts, namely the belief that big and expensive grinders must produce superior ground particles.

Speed is actually detrimental to grind quality. I have produced far more God shots on Mazzer Kony compared to Mazzer Robur.


The testers would have been better off comparing the R80 rather than the R120 as it's a different rate, geometry, etc that's more suitable to grinding for espresso. 

The r120 grinds too fast for espresso.

Anyway, that's my 2-Bob's worth from a decade involving lots of practical, real-world grinding....every day..............of course, all my comments above are made in absence of reading the nerdy stuff.....as I often find that nerdy stuff does not always reflect what happens in the real world.




Brett H

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Brilliant stuff Jeff!  I had no idea until you articulated it that faster is less good but it completely stands to reason. This is my  :doh: moment for the day :)

I'll check out the Londium stuff later but there's been so much angst associated with that reseller I tend to avoid!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

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I've had no problem with Londinium or any of their contributors or blogs, except the nerdism.

Was actually just a bit gobsmacked they included an R120 for a test with espresso as I could not think of a worse grinder for that purpose.

Maybe I should actually read the article and I may indeed learn why. Apparently some people believe Old dogs can learn new tricks, I wonder if that also applies to tired old dogs.


 

LeroyC

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Brilliant stuff Jeff!  I had no idea until you articulated it that faster is less good but it completely stands to reason. This is my  :doh: moment for the day :)

I'll check out the Londium stuff later but there's been so much angst associated with that reseller I tend to avoid!

What's the angst associated with Londinium all about? Gotta admit I don't know a lot about this brand. What I think I do know is that they're relatively new, the concept is that it's a commercial lever with a domestic footprint, they were developed at least partly by a Kiwi, and they're onto their second or third iteration. I've never really followed any forum threads associated with them as they're well beyond my means so haven't heard of any of these problems. Is the angst the usual stuff you see when new products are developed? Things like pre-release delays or post release performance problems, or is there more to it than that? Would be interested to know.
I love coffee. It's as simple as that.

mycuppa

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Leroy,

Think it might have something to do with the early release period and the first year or so of their existence - a rather volatile period I recall. The whole thing went Chernobyl.

Personally, I switched off when it was getting nasty early in the piece and reputations were being publicly trashed, so I genuinely don't know the full story and I don't have any opinions of who was right or wrong (although one person I regard as a top bloke - as many on this forum would as well - had his rep tarnished mercilessly).

From memory, some big claims were made about the gear by a let's just say "polarizing" character in the UK and when it did not run to plan (whether it was design, build or the consequences of how the gear arrived after shipping), the usual kind of stuff like comments about less than acceptable outcomes started to emerge (I guess these were expected and acceptable, or likely given the hype at the time).

This invariably ends up in stone throwing ....just small skirmishes in the beginning which escalated rapidly to trading SCUD missiles.

Unfortunately, in the process of keyboard commentary and counter-claim played out on the public stage, there were bound to be casualties - some of these highly experienced and respectable industry folks (in Australia) having their reputations trashed - which I guess all seemed rather extreme and surreal at the time to many observers.

Probably a good case study on product release strategy and more specifically in how to deal with feedback.

Someone with a keener interests on the events may paint a different picture.

Lwowiak

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Thanks for the honest grinder review Jeff.
The Londinium saga is well documented here and on CS. A lot of ego, and unnecessary product bashing.

I am sure many are still interested in a good grinder for espresso, that is able to be single dosed, and has minimal grind retention. We all seem to love a new product!
 
I hate having to purge lots of coffee, as I am absent minded in the morning, and other family members use my machine when I am away. They love single dosing as it makes it easy for them to achieve good shots. Purging is something they would not bother with. Given the size of some of these grinders, I would have trouble justifying a new purchase unless it made life easier.

Always interested in new toys ......
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LeroyC

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Thanks MC, sounds like it was the sort of stuff I assumed it would be, maybe just a bit worse. I just went back and educated myself a little, but didn't dig too deep as I didn't see the point. It looks like it all happened around 2012-2013 and I was quite active on the forums then, but ignored all the Londinium stuff as it didn't interest me. No great loss.
I love coffee. It's as simple as that.

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R120 seems like a beast of a grinder with a bit of a ridiculous asking price if it cant even grind for espresso - Id like to have a play around with an EK43 though - any thoughts on this grinder? How viable are they in a commercial setting?

p
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Brett H

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I reckon they have pretty significant bling factor for a commercial setup but I heard a repairer complaining that the on/off nature of single dosing was blowing the motors and or the start capacitors. Could have just been a dodgy batch but they were designed to grind bags weren't they??
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EK's are brilliant bag grinders.
The only criticisms I make are......

they are ear splitting noisy especially when you grind as they are designed for......kilos at a time.

they don't have a shaker or vibrator to settle the grinds.

They have a serious static problem that zaps the operator unless you use one hand to earth yourself on a bare metal area such as a screw. You have to shake the bag with the other hand.......which creates the static.

As with all big deli or bag grinders......don't even bother with single dosing......just ridiculous.

Brett H

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Awesome advice, thanks Jeff!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

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