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Author Topic: Let's talk ristrettos! :)  (Read 1502 times)

Simon

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Let's talk ristrettos! :)
« on: 21/10/2017, 09:08 PM »
A riveting topic to me hehe, let's talk ristrettos! Riveting ristrettos run really reluctantly reduced and restricted!

Just wondering a few things...

1) What really is the difference between a ristretto and an overextracted shot, what makes it different, and how do you not produce an overextracted shot when brewing up a ristretto? Obviously tastewise very different, but how can you avoid overextraction when pulling a ristretto? I'm sure it would come down to the bean.. I've pulled ristrettos with some that have been heavenly, and others that were just not great and didn't seem suited...

2) How have you found the most effective method to prepare it? As far as I know there are three main ways: Grinding finer, updosing, or pulling the shot early (Or a combo of those).

(The most common definition I see is pulling a 1:1 ratio shot in roughly 35 seconds, which obviously entails a slower shot, otherwise can be achieved by pulling a shot shorter)

I find that grinding finer works well, but it would probably be easier to either cut a shot short or really updosing as it can be tricky to just switch it up for the next shot and assuring you'll get the right grind fineness and also that the new grind has worked its way through (although updosing can be limited in application at times depending on current basket dose you're using..)

Curious as to your thoughts :)


Profitec Pro 500, Rancilio Rocky Doser Grinder, 58.5mm Pullman Tamper, V60, Aeropress, Plunger, Behmor 1600

askthe coffeeguy

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Let's talk ristrettos! :)
« Reply #1 on: 22/10/2017, 01:28 AM »
I would classify a ristretto as a restricted pour from a double basket to produce anywhere between 10 and 20ml ergo a double ris which is the norm for most good coffee shops is anywhere from 20 to 40ml from, say, 21.5g in and extraction times would vary depending upon the beans used, the roast profile and depth, and the equipment being used

shot timers and scales are a great way to get a handle on all of the variables but I still consider these to be diagnostic tools rather than a necessary staple of a busy service

i just keep an eye on extraction times and on how the coffee is pouring and make adjustments accordingly, plus I'm constantly taste testing my coffee throughout the day to see if any other variables, such as relative humidity or freshness post roast need to be accounted for

i guess the hard thing here is repeatability I mean I have faith in my own ability to make these on going adjustments but others might not he as fastidious - whixh is I guess where scales and shot timers do come into play

cheers,

ACG
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

Simon

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Let's talk ristrettos! :)
« Reply #2 on: 22/10/2017, 08:21 PM »


I would classify a ristretto as a restricted pour from a double basket to produce anywhere between 10 and 20ml ergo a double ris which is the norm for most good coffee shops is anywhere from 20 to 40ml from, say, 21.5g in and extraction times would vary depending upon the beans used, the roast profile and depth, and the equipment being used

shot timers and scales are a great way to get a handle on all of the variables but I still consider these to be diagnostic tools rather than a necessary staple of a busy service

i just keep an eye on extraction times and on how the coffee is pouring and make adjustments accordingly, plus I'm constantly taste testing my coffee throughout the day to see if any other variables, such as relative humidity or freshness post roast need to be accounted for

i guess the hard thing here is repeatability I mean I have faith in my own ability to make these on going adjustments but others might not he as fastidious - whixh is I guess where scales and shot timers do come into play

cheers,

ACG

Yeah if I ever pull a ristretto I'll usually use the scale directly with the pour as opposed to the usual weighing the shot after.

It's just interesting what a ristretto is, and why it's different to simply an overextracted shot. I might play with it a bit and see what taste differences arise from pulling a ristretto via different ways of getting there (updosing vs grinding finer vs pulling a normal shot out early)
Profitec Pro 500, Rancilio Rocky Doser Grinder, 58.5mm Pullman Tamper, V60, Aeropress, Plunger, Behmor 1600

askthe coffeeguy

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Let's talk ristrettos! :)
« Reply #3 on: 29/10/2017, 10:05 PM »
I updose marginally and or fine the grind if making a ristretto specifically for a customer and I only pour bout 20ml in total for a single ris -  any more would be over extracted I reckon ...


p
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

Simon

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Let's talk ristrettos! :)
« Reply #4 on: 29/10/2017, 10:26 PM »
I updose marginally and or fine the grind if making a ristretto specifically for a customer and I only pour bout 20ml in total for a single ris -  any more would be over extracted I reckon ...


p
Ahh something's clicking now... so I guess if you leave a slowflow ristretto pouring too long (in order to achieve the same weight of an ordinary shot), THEN overextraction occurs, but if it's cut off earlier to a ristretto weight (even if it's 35 seconds) it leaves all the good stuff in without overdoing it. So that would be the answer to my question as to what makes a ristretto different from just an overextracted shot! Awesome, that's a win! Haha thanks mate!
Profitec Pro 500, Rancilio Rocky Doser Grinder, 58.5mm Pullman Tamper, V60, Aeropress, Plunger, Behmor 1600

askthe coffeeguy

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Let's talk ristrettos! :)
« Reply #5 on: 31/10/2017, 06:24 PM »
Ahh something's clicking now... so I guess if you leave a slowflow ristretto pouring too long (in order to achieve the same weight of an ordinary shot), THEN overextraction occurs, but if it's cut off earlier to a ristretto weight (even if it's 35 seconds) it leaves all the good stuff in without overdoing it. So that would be the answer to my question as to what makes a ristretto different from just an overextracted shot! Awesome, that's a win! Haha thanks mate!

Yeh id go with that I mean you can pull the full 30ml  from an updosed basket / fine grind if you want to and i know some customers who like this but for me it becomes burnt / bitter - so i prefer to cut the pour short or as they say, to 'restrict' the pour!

P
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

Simon

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Let's talk ristrettos! :)
« Reply #6 on: 31/10/2017, 08:42 PM »
Yeah true, I remember years ago in the cafe a customer wanted a long black, but just to pull a shot, then push the extraction button again (volumetric machine), then again.... and again... and again until it was full. I kept asking "... are you sure??" I cringed every time I had to push the button, it was just dirty dreggy water being put into the cup and tremendous overextraction, but apparently I've heard a few people (legit coffee fanatics too) doing this for surprisingly pleasing results. It's like beyond a lungo though, but at the time I was just disgusted haha...
Profitec Pro 500, Rancilio Rocky Doser Grinder, 58.5mm Pullman Tamper, V60, Aeropress, Plunger, Behmor 1600

askthe coffeeguy

  • On the endless quest for espresso excellence ...
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    • hey brew coffee to you!
Let's talk ristrettos! :)
« Reply #7 on: 15/01/2018, 10:06 AM »
Yeah true, I remember years ago in the cafe a customer wanted a long black, but just to pull a shot, then push the extraction button again (volumetric machine), then again.... and again... and again until it was full. I kept asking "... are you sure??" I cringed every time I had to push the button, it was just dirty dreggy water being put into the cup and tremendous overextraction, but apparently I've heard a few people (legit coffee fanatics too) doing this for surprisingly pleasing results. It's like beyond a lungo though, but at the time I was just disgusted haha...

Ive had customers ask this from time to time I usually try to offer them an alternative way Id rather put a double ris on top of a cup of hot water than runthe shot longer
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

Simon

  • Senior Barista
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Let's talk ristrettos! :)
« Reply #8 on: 15/01/2018, 12:42 PM »
Ive had customers ask this from time to time I usually try to offer them an alternative way Id rather put a double ris on top of a cup of hot water than runthe shot longer
Hehe yeah it's always worth mentioning/offering to them a way to make a similar drink but a way it will taste much better, but fair enough if they prefer the other way
Profitec Pro 500, Rancilio Rocky Doser Grinder, 58.5mm Pullman Tamper, V60, Aeropress, Plunger, Behmor 1600

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