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Author Topic: New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable  (Read 516 times)

Taz B

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« on: 31/07/2017, 08:20 AM »
Hi All,

I'm new to the forum, and was referred by Paul from KBean who I visited a few weeks ago.
I saw the CIME co-01 in action at his showroom and was very impressed. Not in a hurry to buy - sometime in the next month or so, earlier if the right deal comes along.

I am in the market for a quality espresso machine + grinder that can produce 2-3 coffees on weekdays (mix of black and milky), and 4-5/day on weekends. For entertaining we may do around 10 at a time, around once a month or so. For these requirements, I think I'm looking at a HX machine and suitable grinder to match. Happy to hear other suggestions. I'm upgrading from a pod machine - so no comparison - I just want something that will last 20yrs (ideally) and not require upgrading (I hope!)

I have recently also thought that it would also be useful to be able to transport the machine between different locations. We often go away for the weekend (around once a month) to the peninsula, and also co-host small gatherings at family's places nearby (again once a month-ish) - in both instances would be great to be able to take the machine with us. If this is completely impractical please tell me (and also why), otherwise I will make weight, size, and general transportability one of the buying criteria.

Based on this, the CIME co-01, impressive as it is, comes in on the heavier side at around 34kg. No other major drawbacks that I could tell - just lacks some of the fit and finish of top-end brands. There's an upcoming CIME co-11 which is smaller and cheaper (20kg according to CIME's website). Main drawback of co-11 is the lack of a hot water tap: Not so much for the hot water itself (though useful occasionally), but because the boiler can't be drained, at least not without opening up the unit. I don't know if this is an issue in practice - e.g. if we're away for a month and then want to use steam, will the 'old' water be an issue?

Of course, I'm open to suggestions on other brands and machines, and I have not had time to visit anywhere else just yet.

Thanks everyone! I look forward to the ongoing discussion.



Brett H

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #1 on: 31/07/2017, 04:07 PM »
Easy brief Taz!!  Go a Nemox Lux grinder and Lelit of some description.  Bot have shiny classy aesthetics, produce great espresso and are small/easily transportable.  The Lux will last 20 years, though you may wish it'd die so you can upgrade to something fancier and the Lelit will need regular servicing like any quality espresso machine. 

Now there are some folks who'll jump on here and tell you you need a big HX or DB or Lever or KVW with a Robur/Kony for home and an aeropress and a hand grinder for travel.  These are the folks who have accidentally at some point been tricked into buying a hand-grinder and want to share the pain, suffering and the minutes of tedium that go with hand-grinders.  By encouraging others to do the same they spread the pain thus diluting it!  Don't fall into that trap!  Buy an electric grinder like the good lord intended and don't fall for the utter nonsense that is the handgrinder malarkey!  Also, Aeropress' are the devils work as one leaked on me once when I put it together wrong.  THE.DEVILS.WORK!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

K_Bean_Coffee

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #2 on: 31/07/2017, 08:50 PM »
Hi Taz
Yep I agree with Brett. Forget the hand grinder unless you feel the need for a daily workout.
One of my popular packages is the CIME CO-01 and Quamar Q50P.
You can find out a lot by reading though my K Bean - Buyer's Guide


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Taz B

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #3 on: 31/07/2017, 10:06 PM »
Thanks for the replies Brett and Kbean

I needed no convincing about manual grinder but thanks anyway!

Brett - re lelit, which one do you suggest? They have the Mara (hx) and PL60T v2 (dual boiler) which are different but similarly priced. I do like the idea of a HX or DB as they will allow simultaneous steam, and multiple milky coffees in a row, compared to SB.

Kbean - yes I remember this combo from your demo a few wks ago - great machines. My only gripe with the CO-01 is the weight: refer to my last post - I would like to be able to pick it up off the bench and take it down the road or in the car for 1hr (every few weeks). At 34kg I'm not sure I could do this regularly! Unless there is a 'transport box' or similar for these machines - any ideas?

And any other specific suggestions based on my (perhaps unusual) criteria?

Thanks all!

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Cuir Beluga

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #4 on: 01/08/2017, 08:46 AM »
Have you looked at the Nuova Simonelli Oscar/Oscar2/Musica?
Unico Splendor- Europiccola- Macap M2M- Behmor

Taz B

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« Reply #5 on: 01/08/2017, 03:38 PM »
Have you looked at the Nuova Simonelli Oscar/Oscar2/Musica?

Hi Cuir - yes I've considered the Oscar 2 (online; haven't yet seen in person). My main concern was that it's a bit more 'appliance like' compared to other (e.g. e61 style) HX machines such as the CIME CO-11, which won't be much more expensive.

However upon looking now, I did notice it is very light - only 13kg, small - and despite not having a hot water outlet from the boiler, the boiler can still be easily drained by the user (I had thought it could only be done by a technician). Hmm, it's definitely compelling from a transportability point of view; I just wonder whether it would be a long term (15-20 yrs +) proposition.

Are there any Oscar 2 users that can comment on reliability and general usability?

To KBean: Do you know if the upcoming CIME CO-11 has the ability to bleed the tank (i.e. can the user do it, like the Oscar 2)?

And just to reiterate: I'm open to other brands, models etc.

Thanks all :)

Koffee Kosmo

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #6 on: 01/08/2017, 03:42 PM »
Apart from Brett's suggestions
The Bezzera BZ10 would be a machine to consider
A good mid size grinder would suit

As with any suggestions I would advise a hands test to assertain if it's fit for purpose

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 5 Hand grinders:
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Taz B

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« Reply #7 on: 01/08/2017, 04:13 PM »
The Bezzera BZ10 would be a machine to consider
A good mid size grinder would suit

Thanks KK. It looks like a HX machine with a 'e61 style' group head, but it's actually directly heated with electric elements rather than the thermosyphon mechanism - is that right?

Has anyone used this and compared to a e61 style HX to know the difference. What are pros/cons of the BZ10 vs e61 - e.g. fast warm-up time vs (something - lower consistency of shots for example)?

Thanks

Koffee Kosmo

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #8 on: 01/08/2017, 04:28 PM »
The BZ10 has a small form commercial group head
And you are correct that it has an element to heat the head - this allows you to make coffee in 10/15 min saving you electricity
This system is a trickle down from commercial machines and it's also used on my Strega 

I have used this machine on plenty of ocassions and does make nice coffee
Some folks say that it requires a water flush prior to pulling a shot but so do most E61 machines

The machine covers all your short list items
Water Tap
HX
Light to carry
Plus extras
Direct group head heating
High quality finish

But I stress again - it's prudent to go have a look at any machine with your own eyes

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 5 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Cuir Beluga

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #9 on: 01/08/2017, 05:09 PM »
Hi Cuir - yes I've considered the Oscar 2 (online; haven't yet seen in person). My main concern was that it's a bit more 'appliance like' compared to other (e.g. e61 style) HX machines such as the CIME CO-11, which won't be much more expensive.

However upon looking now, I did notice it is very light - only 13kg, small - and despite not having a hot water outlet from the boiler, the boiler can still be easily drained by the user (I had thought it could only be done by a technician). Hmm, it's definitely compelling from a transportability point of view; I just wonder whether it would be a long term (15-20 yrs +) proposition.

Are there any Oscar 2 users that can comment on reliability and general usability?

To KBean: Do you know if the upcoming CIME CO-11 has the ability to bleed the tank (i.e. can the user do it, like the Oscar 2)?

And just to reiterate: I'm open to other brands, models etc.

Thanks all :)

I've looked at them on and off, both before and after I bought what I have now. I've never seen one in the raw though.
Unico Splendor- Europiccola- Macap M2M- Behmor

K_Bean_Coffee

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #10 on: 01/08/2017, 05:41 PM »
Hi Taz,

If weight is an issue I recommend the Mara PL62S. Forget the PL62T. A PID isn't needed for an HX machine IMO so save the $300.

I'm really not a fan of the BZ10. I stopped selling them after "spitting steam" issues and 2 returns.

Happy hunting :)
Paul

mycuppa

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #11 on: 01/08/2017, 06:15 PM »
On the topic of "ideally transportable".

Not a good idea I'm afraid. Moving machines about regularly will raise 2 major risks into the stratosphere.

1. Unexplained and unexpected component failure not related to wear or use
2. Damage in transit

Espresso machines don't like bumps or harsh vibrations that can occur in transit, regardless of the brand or how well it was designed and built. If you want the convenience of moving the gear around regularly be prepared for a random failure or 3.

Unless you are intending to use the original packaging and then strap it securely in your vehicle (and that does not mean wrap a seat belt around it), hit the brakes unexpectedly and it's either a missile that can injure occupants or it's going to do some big damage. Even going around corners can cause heavy items to smash around inside of your boot if not secured properly.

BTW - most of the equipment that's being talking about will make excellent coffee in the hands of a skillful owner - as will stuff that has also not been mentioned yet. Go with the gear that you like best and/or try to see or use it first hand.

K_Bean_Coffee

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #12 on: 01/08/2017, 07:59 PM »
KISS
When away from home (hotels, camping, trekking, etc) I just bring a simple pourover :)

Brett H

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #13 on: 01/08/2017, 08:36 PM »
I use a Pavoni lever and a Lux grinder as my travel kit.  Takes a lickin' keeps on kickin'
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Simon

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #14 on: 01/08/2017, 09:21 PM »
KISS
When away from home (hotels, camping, trekking, etc) I just bring a simple pourover :)

I can't be helpful here as my knowledge of different machines is subpar... but for a second there I thought your pour over was flying a kite... but now I see that it's a mountain in the back, and the string iiiis.... well.... Not too sure!

(I think drinking those multiple espressos testing out my new grinder today has leaked into the brain... :S )
Profitec Pro 500, Rancilio Rocky Doser Grinder, 58.5mm Pullman Tamper, V60, Aeropress, Plunger, Behmor 1600

CasaEspressoAust

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« Reply #15 on: 01/08/2017, 09:55 PM »
Plus 1 for the La Pavoni for travel

_maatt_

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« Reply #16 on: 01/08/2017, 10:22 PM »
KISS
When away from home (hotels, camping, trekking, etc) I just bring a simple pourover :)

Seconded! Much easier than the 30kg machine, 5kg grinder, 50kg generator and 15kg diesel tank to carry in your backpack, too

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CasaEspressoAust

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #17 on: 01/08/2017, 10:25 PM »
Have you looked at the Nuova Simonelli Oscar/Oscar2/Musica?

Oscar II definitely worth considering IMO


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K_Bean_Coffee

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #18 on: 01/08/2017, 10:53 PM »
Seconded! Much easier than the 30kg machine, 5kg grinder, 50kg generator and 15kg diesel tank to carry in your backpack, too
Wow - a fellow hiker :)

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Koffee Kosmo

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #19 on: 01/08/2017, 11:00 PM »
If I had a litttle propane burner I would make Greek / Turkish coffee
All that's needed is ground coffee, water, heat and a briki

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 5 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Taz B

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #20 on: 02/08/2017, 11:18 AM »
On the topic of "ideally transportable".

Not a good idea I'm afraid. Moving machines about regularly will raise 2 major risks into the stratosphere.

1. Unexplained and unexpected component failure not related to wear or use
2. Damage in transit

Espresso machines don't like bumps or harsh vibrations that can occur in transit, regardless of the brand or how well it was designed and built. If you want the convenience of moving the gear around regularly be prepared for a random failure or 3.

Unless you are intending to use the original packaging and then strap it securely in your vehicle (and that does not mean wrap a seat belt around it), hit the brakes unexpectedly and it's either a missile that can injure occupants or it's going to do some big damage. Even going around corners can cause heavy items to smash around inside of your boot if not secured properly.

BTW - most of the equipment that's being talking about will make excellent coffee in the hands of a skillful owner - as will stuff that has also not been mentioned yet. Go with the gear that you like best and/or try to see or use it first hand.

Thanks Mycuppa - smart advice re transportability and also about most machines being capable with a trained hand - it's good to be reminded of this second point as it's easy to get carried away with the bells and whistles at times, so thank you!

Thanks also to everyone else who's given ideas on what to do when travelling - looks like filter coffee may be a simple, cheap, and quality option.
Does filer coffee lend itself well to milky coffees? I know I won't have a steamer from the espresso machine, but could do with a manual frother (plunger style) or *cringe* a microwave?

Regarding transportability, this advice is good and what I was looking for, so I'll discard the idea of taking the machine in the car to the peninsula for long weekends. However, I would still like to be able to take it down to my folks place (about a 100m walk up the street) for the odd gathering to make a dozen coffees at a time - much better than using their Philips/Saeco superautomatic (and I inevitably end up with the 'tea & coffee man' job on those days!) To that end, I am happy to carry the machine myself, and can do up to around 20kg or so but not much more than that. I imagine this would also avoid the problems with bumps and vibrations that you speak about from a longer car trip.

OK, getting closer!

Thanks all

_maatt_

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #21 on: 02/08/2017, 11:48 AM »
Thanks Mycuppa - smart advice re transportability and also about most machines being capable with a trained hand - it's good to be reminded of this second point as it's easy to get carried away with the bells and whistles at times, so thank you!

Thanks also to everyone else who's given ideas on what to do when travelling - looks like filter coffee may be a simple, cheap, and quality option.
Does filer coffee lend itself well to milky coffees? I know I won't have a steamer from the espresso machine, but could do with a manual frother (plunger style) or *cringe* a microwave?

Regarding transportability, this advice is good and what I was looking for, so I'll discard the idea of taking the machine in the car to the peninsula for long weekends. However, I would still like to be able to take it down to my folks place (about a 100m walk up the street) for the odd gathering to make a dozen coffees at a time - much better than using their Philips/Saeco superautomatic (and I inevitably end up with the 'tea & coffee man' job on those days!) To that end, I am happy to carry the machine myself, and can do up to around 20kg or so but not much more than that. I imagine this would also avoid the problems with bumps and vibrations that you speak about from a longer car trip.

OK, getting closer!

Thanks all
Aeropress would be better than filter for milky drinks... but neither is great for making large numbers. For that, I'd look at a large French press might, or even a syphon. Paired with a capable hand grinder and fresh beans, either will deliver much better coffee than a superauto.

If you really wanted a transportable espresso machine, I'd look to either a stove top machine (see Otto, or "the little guy" - not sure whether they're back in production but they come up second-hand from time to time) or the thermoblock options as they're much lighter. My Sunbeam em6910 was quite well-travelled and packed up neatly into a milk crate.

I wouldn't bother now, though - travel is an opportunity to try a local cafe or experiment with manual methods.

Brett H

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New HX machine + grinder - ideally transportable
« Reply #22 on: 02/08/2017, 12:40 PM »
Seriously consider a large Plunger or two if hot water is already available. I use a plunger at work and love it. Convenient and when not burned by the water tastes great!!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

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