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Bezzera

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Luca

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« Reply #50 on: 03/11/2008, 01:17 PM »
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Sorry is it possible to reveal which cafe or affiliations you have in Melbourne (may be offline)? Just out of fairness and curiosity.


Barista at The Maling Room

Trainer/delivery guy etc for Atomica Coffee

Similarly, 'omotesando,' could you reveal who you are?  (Not to imply anything; it's just driving me nuts trying to work out if we have met or not ;P)

Cheers,

Luca

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« Reply #51 on: 03/11/2008, 04:56 PM »
At the end of the day it all comes down to what's in the cup - I had a coffee somewhere recently that was absolute shit, I didn't bother sending it back as my expectation was that I would just be served more of the same.  You know the story, pimplly teenager takes 20mins to make a coffee, even though it's not that busy, and when it comes, it's undrinkable

That was at the back of the store, on their 2nd espresso machine. However, at the front of the store was a totally different story: 2 on-to-it chicks pumping out what looked and smelled like very good consistent coffee

"Why didn't I get a coffee like that?" I asked as I paid the bill

And they actually handled the situation well and professionally

Having said that I didn't end up having coffee there as it was time to go

But I thought to myself afterwards, what a different story it would've been if somebody who knew what they were doing had made my coffee with passion

For me it was a make or break experience

Will I be back? Maybe, but not in a hurry, especially when I know I;ve got fresh beans at home

Could easily be the same story elsewhere.

I've had good coffee and crap coffee from Melbourne's finest.  But what set's the top enders apart is that even a crap coffee from a truly remarkable coffee establishment is miles better than the undrinkable swill that passes for coffee in many places

Pat
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askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #52 on: 03/11/2008, 04:57 PM »
Oh and Luca - welcome to the forum, you must surely win the record for the longest recorded time between registering and actually posting!!!

PAt
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YeeZa

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« Reply #53 on: 04/11/2008, 01:02 PM »
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Oh and Luca - welcome to the forum, you must surely win the record for the longest recorded time between registering and actually posting!!!

And that you've changed sexes between now and a few weeks ago. ;D

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« Reply #54 on: 04/11/2008, 03:03 PM »
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Oh and Luca - welcome to the forum, you must surely win the record for the longest recorded time between registering and actually posting!!!

And that you've changed sexes between now and a few weeks ago. ;D

I suppose in this computer age that anything is possible  :o
But Luca I will assume that this gender bender is a typo    :D

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psaigh

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« Reply #55 on: 05/11/2008, 07:48 AM »
or just wishiful thinking ;)

askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #56 on: 05/11/2008, 06:26 PM »
inside every one of us is an other who wishes that they could make better coffee (even if their coffee is AMAZING to start off with~!)
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

admin

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« Reply #57 on: 10/11/2008, 07:26 PM »
HI guys -just keen to see if there are any final opinions on the way we do our 'best cafe' reviews... main thing is whether we rank cafes one-to-five, or whether we simply announce our choice of Top 5 for that city?

We already check our shortlist of cafes 4-5 times over three-four months; the argument for simply listing Top 5 is that all cafes have their good days and bad days - depending on barista, time of day, etc.

The argument the other way, is that if we don't rank 1-5, then we're not putting our 'balls on the line'.

Just interested in any final opinions either way.

best

-A


Luca

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« Reply #58 on: 11/11/2008, 04:40 PM »
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HI guys -just keen to see if there are any final opinions on the way we do our 'best cafe' reviews... main thing is whether we rank cafes one-to-five, or whether we simply announce our choice of Top 5 for that city?

We already check our shortlist of cafes 4-5 times over three-four months; the argument for simply listing Top 5 is that all cafes have their good days and bad days - depending on barista, time of day, etc.

The argument the other way, is that if we don't rank 1-5, then we're not putting our 'balls on the line'.

Just interested in any final opinions either way.

best

-A


You can have your cake and eat it, too.  Rank the cafes, don't rank them; whatever, but explain in the beginning that on any given day the order might change.  You can always say that the rankings reflect your experience and that, though they might vary on a given day, you are confident that anyone going to these cafes will be experiencing the best that the city has to offer.  Better still, you could give a top 5 in no particular order and just pick out one as the best based on your visits.  You could also mention the cafes that you thought were good, but didn't quite make the cut.

Seems to me that you are focussing on the outcome of your review as the important part.  As a reader of reviews, I'm more interested in the process.  Your comments on the coffee review books seem to indicate that you are, too.  I think that you need to set out in your review who the reviewers were and why we should care what they think, how many times they went to the cafes, how many cafes were reviewed, how many drinks of each type were had at each place and how everything was scored.  Seems that every man and his dog has a top five list of cafes in each city; you need to put a case forward as to why anyone should care what yours is.

Cheers,

Luca

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« Reply #59 on: 11/11/2008, 06:47 PM »
I agree that whilst every effort can be made to ensure that cafes are frequented numerous times by multiple reviewers, its such a  subjective process that at the end of the day a clear set of criteria needs to be identified to determine rankings, and it should be noted how these guidelines are to be enforced

Sometimes but not often there is a clear favourite among reviewers based upon the available criteria and if this is the case I don't have a problem ranking a certain cafe as 'numero uno' - and ranking the others as included in the top five category, with, as Luca says, honourable mentions given to those who nearly made the grade

Cheers,

ACG
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admin

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« Reply #60 on: 13/11/2008, 09:14 AM »
Hi Luca - thanks for your input and welcome to the forum.

Quote
outcome of your review as the important part. As a reader of reviews, I'm more interested in the process.

I personally agree that process should be more important in reviews, but actually would respectfully submit that you are probably unlike most readers, who definitely do want to see the results - in fact for some readers, that is the only thing they want to see [rightly or wrongly]!

With respect to wanting to know more about the reviewers, respect the sentiment, but there is one practical hitch - most of our reviewers are either World Barista Judge or Australian Barista Finalist level, or above. However, many of these would be reluctant to have their name published.

You would appreciate that most of these people now make their living as consultants to the industry. There are a number of scenarios where this could create a problem for them personally, for example if one of them left out a cafe for consideration in a Top 5 for a particular city, when a roaster strongly believed that cafe should be included. i would like to say that the industry is more enlightened than this, but in practice a situation like this could be a problem for that person's livelihood.

This is just one potential example, but I'm sure you can see how this could put them in an extremely difficult position.

What I can assure you of is that we take this process extremely seriously, unlike many newspapers, where the attitude seems to be [to a junior journalist] 'John, do you like coffee - go and try some cafes and do an article on sydney's top five for me'... or similar!


-A


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« Reply #61 on: 13/11/2008, 02:43 PM »
PS - in terms of process, just thought I should mention a couple of further things:

1) each reviewer compares like with like in terms of the espresso drinks that review - ie one person will only look at short blacks; another will only look at flat whites, etc
2) in addition to the industry professionals, we have several 'prosumer' people on the panel [depending on city] - to give a consumer perspective, including myself as editor.

-A

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« Reply #62 on: 14/11/2008, 12:08 AM »
I see that Luca has had a sex change overnight
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« Reply #63 on: 03/12/2008, 04:29 PM »
Went to Velluto Nero in the Sydney [city] the other day - apparently rated top cafe in Sydney by Sydney Morning Herald recently... nothing special - the coffees we had did have a nice rosetta, but very little body or character - basically an OK milky flat white.

Will go back to check on espresso shots next time, otherwise can't quite work out what the fuss was about - has anyone else tried this place?

-A

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« Reply #64 on: 19/12/2008, 03:15 PM »
Hi guys - will be posting our Sydney's Best Cafes 2009 here on Monday, to co-incide with the release of the Summer issue in newsagents!

best
-A

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« Reply #65 on: 19/12/2008, 05:53 PM »
I feel the tension mounting!!

..Can't wait to see the results

admin

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« Reply #66 on: 22/12/2008, 01:12 PM »
Hi guys - the delay was because we wanted to advise the cafes before we released the list! - congratulations to the following cafes:

over_extracted

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« Reply #67 on: 23/12/2008, 08:33 AM »
That's quite an impressive list there Admin.
Congratulations to all listed. ;)

OE

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« Reply #68 on: 28/05/2009, 10:11 AM »
Could I ask a question which might seem odd to some, but is vitally important to me?:

Are any of these great cafes open late?

I can tell you Mecca and Campos aren't (snuck into one by minutes, and was shut out of the other by the same), I can't imagine Toby's (City rd) would be open late in its location.

One of the great things about Melbourne was being able to get top-grade coffee relatively (Buba's) or quite (Degraves) late, and in some districts very late (Brunswick st) - even if not the best in town - most nights of the week.  The only place I've come across which looks like it might work is Citrus (?) Newtown - still haven't tried the coffee, though.

Any other late-night caf addicts out there?

admin

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« Reply #69 on: 29/05/2009, 08:21 AM »
Hi John - that's a really good point - it would be very interesting to know which [if any] cafes are open late.

Actually, until a few years ago, the only ones I knew of were in the 'Italian precincts' - eg Leichhardt or Stanley St, City; however, you weren't always guaranteed the best coffee!

-A

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« Reply #70 on: 12/08/2009, 05:41 PM »
just had a perfect picolo latte earlier this week from Toby's at Camperdown - Aniken made it for me on the Idrocompresso - thanks mate, that was the best shot I've had in a long time!

-A

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« Reply #71 on: 21/11/2009, 12:42 PM »
My current faves:

Workshop Espresso beautiful [newish] hole-in-the-wall on George St CBD [own blend from Tobys + regular rotation of SOs].

The Little Marionette in Balmain makes me smile. Great coffee, [own beans] vibe & sense of community.

Single Origin in Surry Hills just keeps crankin' along

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« Reply #72 on: 23/11/2009, 10:17 AM »
Hey mrB - thanks for the feedback - hadn't heard of Workshop - always good to get updates on great new spots!

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« Reply #73 on: 17/07/2010, 11:39 AM »
this thread has been quiet for a while, so here's my two cents ....

Not mentioned yet -

Coffee Alchemy/Flint and Steel Addison Rd Marrickville - Flat out the BEST espresso bar in Sydney & one of the best in the country. Hazel de los Reyes is a passionate and dare I say magical roaster. Her skills as a barista, along with offsider Dan are of the highest quality. Every day you can expect at least 1 espresso blend, 3 Single Estate espressos and 4 or more single estate pour over offerings. This outlet is really all about Hazel's passion for the quality green coffee she is able to source and wanting to serve it in the best way she possibly can. Small space, no food offerings but it doesn't matter. Open Tuesday - Saturday 8am - 3pm. If you're coming from interstate its minutes from the airport so can be the first thing you do in Sydney after collecting your bag!

Beandrinking Ernest Place Crows Nest - While not a new cafe, 2010 has seen some big changes for the team at Beandrinking. Sydney's only Slayer (if that matters to you), Syphon and Pourover bar, cold drip offerings. Always plenty of choices for different beans and blends. They have also invested in a roaster but I'm not sure if its in action yet - please correct me if I'm wrong. Nice choices of sandwiches and hearty soups in winter. I'm having a brain snap on names of the whole team, but the owner, Keith's passion for coffee is shared by the whole team. Good selection of Hario products for sale too!

Coffeetrails Lee St Sydney - Location is on the upper left of Henry Deane Plaza as you walk down to the Devonshire St Pedestrian tunnel. Coffee from Single Origin Roasters, Jonno and his team are young, passionate (noticing a theme?) and heavily involved in the local coffee scene. Always offering tasty brews, like the other places I like to frequent they are more than happy to talk about what's on offer that day and what is coming up. Serving espresso based drinks at the moment, I think the Syphon is there to tease but maybe we all just need to goad Jonno into offering some brewed options as well. Nice selection of pies, sandwiches, salads and delicious stuff from Brasserie Bread.

Le Monde Foveaux St Surry Hills - Coffee from 5 Senses and is one of the few places in Sydney I can think of that are sourcing from them. Anthony and his sister Renee have transformed a catering business into a thriving cafe over several years. Offering espresso and Clover brewed coffee the team at Le Monde are always seeking innovation in their food and coffee offerings. With a seasonal, changing menu they are always offering great specials and also have a breakfast degustation on offer Thursday, Friday and Saturday mornings, paired with coffees. My feeling is that their menu will continue to evolve as the chef looks for ways to innovate cafe food service along with Anthony & his lead Barista Brad's constant seeking of better coffee.

All these places have something in common - they are run and owned by passionate, friendly people who love to talk and share what they know about coffee. Its an absolute pleasure to be able to frequent these establishments around Sydney.
Miss Silvia + K10WBC & Abid CCD + Mahlkonig Vario = home deliciousness

admin

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« Reply #74 on: 28/09/2010, 09:03 PM »
just out of interest - did a google search for sydney's best cafes' just to see what came up - one was a SMH article from a couple of year's ago [yes, the one that rated Velluto nero no. 1  :-\] and it was amusing to see some of the 'blog' comments that followed, including the following:

"I always look for the Segafredo sign when I am after a good coffee. Our local Barista at 'Ogilvies' in Denman (NSW) makes the best."

... just about pissed myself laughing... sorry, but just thought i'd share that with you.

A ;D

Bezzera

 

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