Breville's new dual boiler machine BES900

doublerizzy

Thank you Anger, I didn't see the cooling flush you mentioned and I actually needed to raise the brew temperature to 94 deg for my coffee roasted to the first snaps of second crack. The steam is not as strong as the more expensive dual boiler or heat exchange machines- as you said, but I agree it is easy to get a good microfoam. I found it fine. Early days but so far so good and nothing has broken. Lastly, sorry- no ocean I am afraid 🙁 dr

Cuppacoffee

AngerManagement wrote:

Don't think you can cater for a function if Milk based drinks are the order of the day. A true HX or better would still be the preferred option.

While I agree that the steam pressure is not as high as a HX, so long as there is water in the reservoir, the availability of steam is continuous, and the results are excellent. Most HX machines will run out of puff after 90 seconds or so, and if allowed to do so, will also effect a HX machine's brew temperature unless allowed to recover. If you are familiar with either the Breville or a traditional HX, you can organise yourself to make numerous and consecutive coffees. So, who's rushing off to Domayne at Kotara? I hear they have the DB for $1299 without the need to haggle. ;D

admin

Hi guys - a post [& several subsequent ones] were moved to the Breville Marketing thread in 'Industry' - - see: http://www.bestcafes.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=1781.25#bot

Phil

Hi from Mitchelton on Brisbane's north side - SO sorry to have missed yesterday's demo. Where I can go to see one of these machines? Our Sunbeam clapped out a couple of weeks ago (steam has died) and as we've had it repaired half a dozen times, we figure it's time to upgrade. Do you think the Breville is worth the extra $$$? Sounds disappointing that the steam pressure isn't a bit more substantial? Phil

AngerManagement wrote:

Brett H has some shots... ;D 1: Smart grinder was the order of the evening 2: We were shown one run and left to our devices 😉 3: First off remove the plastic insert in the group. Same as the Sunbeam but why ? 4: Menu was easy to navigate 5: Set at 93 but ... Gut feel was that it needed a small flush. This is just tweaking and is the same for all systems as to defining the temp profile / performance. 6: Used it with a manual pre infusion (nice option) and manual run etc Shots were OK and good with milk. We were not there to target the beans... 7: Steam was interesting and as part of the Demo, a full jug was done and some good texturing all be it slower than on a more commercial type. 8: Steam is like that of the Sunbeam in that I could hold my hand within 50mm and leave it there on full steam. 9: Reasonable quite and some nice touches as to tool storage / top loading for water and the swivel foot 😃 10: Temp adjustment quick to access 11: People will need to know how to factory reset as two many options; will see user generated issues when people start to play. 12: Volumetric OR Manual and clean and easy to select. 13: Interesting foot print but would suit those with some bench space... Would not look out of place. 14: PF is solid with commercial type lugs. But tried to fit two other different groups with same lug layout and the overall shape/size clashes with the collar shape (somewhat akin to the Sunbeam in looks). 14A: One Observation was that the group was easy to lock in but with little effort, one was able to move well past 6:00. Not sure what impact this will have on the seal and or collar, if abused. NOTE: As said a dozen times - reliability will be the issue and if it proves to be reliable (2 year warranty is a strong indicator) it will = A market killer for a targeted market. For those moving from a Sunbeam there will be less advantages that if moving from many other thermoblock or small single boiler systems ie. the silvia etc. While a separate boiler for steam, it is not of the same performance of any other dual boiler or other larger single boiler. It it fit for purpose ie. A dinner party etc. Don't think you can cater for a function if Milk based drinks are the order of the day. A true HX or better would still be the preferred option. However, for the $ the BES 900 has to be considered, if looking to upgrade and if you can get a package; them at $1.6K etc with the grinder included OR when offered by the big chains. Then exceptional value for $. If your into a more robust and traditional system, then a solid HX or second hand dual boiler will be the option.

Muscles

I have a couple of questions for those who have used the BDB:

How loud is the BDB compared to the EM6910?
Steaming performance when directly compared to the EM6910?
How would this machine pair with a Super Jolly?

Rider

Phil wrote:

Our Sunbeam clapped out a couple of weeks ago (steam has died) and as we've had it repaired half a dozen times, we figure it's time to upgrade. Do you think the Breville is worth the extra $$$? Phil

Personally opinion only, but from what I have read, no. Double your bucks for something similar is what I see from this. Others will tell you different but through the whole of this hype the Sunbeam has not figured. The Breville has been compared to HX machines. Now the steam dissimilarities are starting to appear as the Breville is here in the flesh. We had a Sunbeam and it was a great machine no doubt. Is the Breville THAT much better? Your call...

Cuppacoffee

Rider wrote:

Personally opinion only, but from what I have read, no. Double your bucks for something similar is what I see from this. Others will tell you different but through the whole of this hype the Sunbeam has not figured. The Breville has been compared to HX machines. Now the steam dissimilarities are starting to appear as the Breville is here in the flesh. We had a Sunbeam and it was a great machine no doubt. Is the Breville THAT much better? Your call...

Dear me. My last post seems to have disappeared without explanation. It's a pity that the above quote isn't based on any real knowledge of the Breville.

beanflying

admin wrote:

Hi guys - a post [& several subsequent ones] were moved to the Breville Marketing thread in 'Industry' - - see: http://www.bestcafes.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=1781.25#bot

Cuppacoffee wrote:

Dear me. My last post seems to have disappeared without explanation. It's a pity that the above quote isn't based on any real knowledge of the Breville.

Nope it was moved away from the machine discussion thread. We are endeavouring to keep this thread on track about discussing the machine and posts regarding some companies marketing decisions and product holdings and ones taking pot shots at other businesses were removed by A. On the steam issue I am keen to see one of the production versions in the flesh and see how much improved it was over the preproduction models. PP models while weak had very dry good quality steam so the only pain was it was a bit slower than ideal. Value for money is quite another mater and if these machine prove their reliability over time then they represent excellent value for money, this is a question currently with no answer.

Cuppacoffee

Thanks for the explanation BF - I do appreciate it. EDIT: Just had a look at the other thread, and my post of this morning isn't there. I still guess it was deleted. Regarding the steam, for everyone's information, Breville increased the performance from the pre-production models by simply increasing the range or scope that the valve could move. The greater angle allows more steam to be available. (Hope that makes sense). Although you might expect the machine to produce a greater volume of steam, one of the main reasons it doesn't is that the holes in the tip are tiny in comparison to many other machines. The result is that this provides more control, and with the majority of likely purchaser's to be inexperienced, that's probably a plus.

Brett_H

The steam on the model we played with on Thursday night was very wet in comparison to my HX. It a also took longer than I expected to steam the quantity of milk for two piccolos. The steam also was nowhere near as hot as my HX ... wait for it .... BUT, the milk textured by Dan on the Breville was very good. Amateurs like me take time to adjust to frothing on a new machine so it would be hardly fair to put mine or AM's efforts with steam under the microscope (us being the problem as opposed to the machine). An Oscar will produce far more steam for less money; However, the Breville offers far more than just a steam machine for the right buyer. Seriously, go have a play when you have the chance and you won't die wondering. Reading on forums will only take you so far in your research. I am so glad i had the opportunity because i found the machine very, very interesting.

admin

Brett H wrote:

A couple more...

good to get a couple more pics Brett [altho' suggest you might consider using a tripod next time 😉]; you're ahead of me - still haven't got to actually one in real life!! A 🙂

Brett_H

admin wrote:

good to get a couple more pics Brett [altho' suggest you might consider using a tripod next time 😉]; you're ahead of me - still haven't got to actually one in real life!! A 🙂

Hi A, you're not wrong there. Here are a couple more fuzzies... the light was really very low and but the pics may speak volumes in relation to questions about both machines that people think too mundane to ask. I'd love to go back at some stage with better light and with my light box and tripod etc because the photos are most disappointing in regards to exposure, noise and focal length.

Muscles

Thanks Anger for answering my Q's and thanks Brett for the photos, I was actually about to ask if anyone got a look at the shower screen...

RichardM

Brett H wrote:

the photos are most disappointing in regards to exposure, noise and focal length.

Indeed they are. It's totally unacceptable!

Brett_H

RichardM wrote:

Indeed they are. It's totally unacceptable!

🙁 I see no other option but to upgrade 😃 Now, which of our sponsors sells a Nikon D400? Oops OT... and the photos still don't look any better... 🙁 Or Richard, do ou mean that the shower screen and group seal are totally unacceptable??? What I found was that we were locking in the portafilter at 4 o'clock and if we hadn't been being respectful and careful had the feeling we could lock that sucker all the way around. Monkeys who buy this machine take note: be gentle!!! If you are used to a commercial group with a heavy dirty ol' rubber seal, excercise some care!!!

Muscles

Brett H wrote:

Monkeys who buy this machine take note: be gentle!!!

Note to self... if I buy this I should change my handle from Muscles to Monkey 😃

shape_shifter

Mmm more and more interesting comments from the CS thread. There is no way to descale the machine yourself!!! You have to take it to a service centre. So first we find out that retailers are discounting from RRP before they even have it and now you can't perform functions that you need to to keep your machine in top condition.

Brett_H

shape_shifter wrote:

Mmm more and more interesting comments from the CS thread. There is no way to descale the machine yourself!!! You have to take it to a service centre. So first we find out that retailers are discounting from RRP before they even have it and now you can't perform functions that you need to to keep your machine in top condition.

They can't be serious SS. Surely Breville are just protecting themselves from warranty claims when unknowings read a forum post and decide to run rice through their boiler to descaled it or something similarly silly. I'm surprised that there are still CS threads unlocked long enough for anyone to post something as controversial as that anyway. And let's face it, if some spotty boy can offer me a SmartGrinder for a stupidly huge discount just because I want to play with their dusty display model don't be surprised when these new 900's are being sold at huge discounts just to get you on their database. It has a fancy term (netting, webbing ?). I am ashamed to admit that I have purchased items at below wholesale (union shopper rep couldn't believe the price) benefiting from this tactic. I'm sure that if we ran a competition to see who can get a 900 the cheapest, you'd better that no haggle price from Domayne in no time... but what would be the point. Have you played with the Lelit/vario yet?

littleroundman

Brett H wrote:

They can't be serious SS.

I'm not sure anyone who has been on the wrong end of Sunbeam 6910 experience/s would necessarily agree with you. The average consumer has no idea what can happen when and if things do go wrong with a product, warranty and no warranty.

Springbok

Well I saw it on Saturday at the Coffeeguy in Brisbane. Nice looking machine - the grinder is amazing - worth every penny I'd say - I made myself a Long black under guidance of one of the staff - must say Dan is very generous - he didnt charge me for the coffee and he didnt try and badger me into buying it. Not that Im a mouse but Im a wee bit scared of my Finance minister atm - so perhaps with Xmas coming along I may get it in my stocking.

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