Breville's new dual boiler machine BES900

Brett_H

Also lost was a terse response from Phil that threatened the future employment prospects of a CS rep. Im sure we all hope that this is not the case. I too would like the posts restored if possible because they are most informative.

Muscles

Hey guys, no tampering (pun intended) of posts going on... Here's what happened that isn't in the thread (because of the rollback/data restore): Phil posted on here, I posted back, he PM'd me, I rang him and I'm off to Breville HQ in the morning!! All in all it's been a very swift response and I am looking forward to having the BDB inspected tomorrow. What's even better is that I'll be able to wait while the machine is looked at and adjusted / calibrated - pretty cool indeed... Anyway I will update you all tomorrow

Brett_H

Muscles wrote:

Hey guys, no tampering (pun intended) of posts going on... Here's what happened that isn't in the thread (because of the rollback/data restore): Phil posted on here, I posted back, he PM'd me, I rang him and I'm off to Breville HQ in the morning!! All in all it's been a very swift response and I am looking forward to having the BDB inspected tomorrow. What's even better is that I'll be able to wait while the machine is looked at and adjusted / calibrated - pretty cool indeed... Anyway I will update you all tomorrow

Great stuff Marc! I'm sure that you'll be looked after really well and here's hoping that it's just a simple gauge calibration issue.

askthecoffeeguy

Hey AM - nice to see you back again - hope you had a nice holiday!

Muscles

Okay, so I met Phil at Breville HQ yesterday morning and had him adjust the OPV, no replacement parts necessary and the whole process took around 10 minutes. It would have been faster if we weren't so busy wagging our chins. I must say that Phil is a credit to Breville. We have all heard about his industry experience and passion for coffee but how many project/product managers would go out of their way by making time to do something like this right before going on an O/S trip? Not many. I was expecting to be told to take it a service centre and to leave if for inspection and that I would get a phone call call when done - so to Phil I say thanks heaps 🙂 I remember doing the same in my store manager days, performing basic repairs on site or in store as necessary to keep the customers happy rather than booking in a call out from our techos. Now, being IT savvy and technically but not mechanically minded, meant I was too busy looking around the room at all the other cool toys rather than focusing my attention on exactly what was being done to the BDB. I can tell you that very few tools were needed/used and after 3 or 4 adjustments the calibration was complete. Bearing in mind that I have only used a few espresso machines and this is the first with an OPV I am trying to reserve my comments as to the resulting shots until I have a few under my belt post adjustment. The pours are different and as such I'll be monitoring/adjusting my dosing and distribution over the coming days.

Brett_H

Muscles wrote:

Okay, so I met Phil at Breville HQ yesterday morning and had him adjust the OPV, no replacement parts necessary and the whole process took around 10 minutes. It would have been faster if we weren't so busy wagging our chins. I must say that Phil is a credit to Breville. We have all heard about his industry experience and passion for coffee but how many project/product managers would go out of their way by making time to do something like this right before going on an O/S trip? Not many. I was expecting to be told to take it a service centre and to leave if for inspection and that I would get a phone call call when done - so to Phil I say thanks heaps 🙂 I remember doing the same in my store manager days, performing basic repairs on site or in store as necessary to keep the customers happy rather than booking in a call out from our techos. Now, being IT savvy and technically but not mechanically minded, meant I was too busy looking around the room at all the other cool toys rather than focusing my attention on exactly what was being done to the BDB. I can tell you that very few tools were needed/used and after 3 or 4 adjustments the calibration was complete. Bearing in mind that I have only used a few espresso machines and this is the first with an OPV I am trying to reserve my comments as to the resulting shots until I have a few under my belt post adjustment. The pours are different and as such I'll be monitoring/adjusting my dosing and distribution over the coming days.

Good form Phil and Breville! Good to see that you were looked after so well Marc!

Muscles

I am a happy camper 😃 I now have an OPV functioning the way it was intended... I can notice a difference in the pours (more viscosity) and a fair bit more body in the cup. Dare I say more flavour or perhaps different flavour? My pallete is by no means of cupping standard but I have noticed a difference since the adjustment. The machine/pump is also marginally louder post adjustment. AM, I haven't got the Sunbeam anymore so I couldn't tset using the dual floor... For the purpose of making a vid I had to create a make shift blind filter using the dual floor single with some glad wrap under the rubber cleaning disc and only a miniscule amount of water managed to escape - less than a ml. Anyway here is a vid to show the gauge using my blind filter: http://youtu.be/FJjTTuTNBiU?hd=1 Now the fun part is getting the dose and distribution sorted (again!) and I know already it is going to be worthwhile. I'll post some vids of the pours once I get it all nutted out. Thanks again Phil 🙂

shape_shifter

Muscles, did Phil mention anything about fixing any of the others, it seems that this is an across the board problem, I'm sure it would be a huge expense to do a recall to fix this.

Muscles

Hi Nic, Not all machines have the issue. They are now several batches in and I am sure we would be hearing a lot more online if they were all affected. We do know that other fixes for the same issue have been performed and AM stated earlier in this thread that the machine he got to play with worked fine and so have others. My machine was adjusted in less than 10 minutes so I hardly think a recall would be necessary. I said before, if the OPV issue is the only apparent teething issue for the BDB then Bravo Breville. I still haven't found a machine with the same host of features for anywhere close to the price and the one thing I am thankful of is the fact that I didn't pay for a bench test as part of my purchase and still end up with this issue oh and I didn't need to make a cardboard gauge afterall 😛 Also, my research in to OPV's in need of adjustment brought up many a thread online. It seems this problem has affected several brands over the years, so it's not like the issue is Breville related.

Muscles

AM, BIG imrovement in the cup and as for sound I'd say it has added another 20-25% in total volume. I've got my technique sorted (hardly changed anything post OPV adjustment really - just a lighter tamp) using some CR Tarrazu - yummo! 19g in to the 18g VST and 60ml out over 35 seconds using a 9 second 60% preinfusion gives a nice amount of body and the pour looks like it's drizzling now instead of gushing like it was.

kywong

Thanks Muscles for keeping us updated. Can't tell you how glad I am to hear that you saw a big improvement in the cup post adjustment, I've been struggling to get more out of my coffee than the supposedly less forgiving Silvia. Looking forward to having mine checked.

Muscles

You're very welcome guys. The best thing about having it adjusted is that I now know it is working and IF I were to have any shortcomings in the cup would know that I need to look at myself rather than at the machine. So to some it up, it's given me peace of mind. I haven't temp surfed yet but am enjoying playing around with the preinfusion a lot. I just got some nice Rwandan and Ethiopian bean sin the mail so more fun times ahead. I need to start logging all my beans and the BDB's settings me thinks...

DoubleRistretto

thanks Muscles, nothing like user feedback! also interesting how this seems to have one quiet, now that the hype has gone down... don't know whether or not they're selling bucket-loads of the things - Phil?

Brett_H

AngerManagement wrote:

I see on cg that the release in the use may have been delayed... How many are unaware or may not understand the impact of a non performing opv. From what some have posted else where and the early replys, one might assume that the issue may not even be recognised..

Interesting.... Nice pick-up mate! hopefully our forum and Phil's/Muscles' great result will serve as good info for those whose unit has this issue.

Koffee_Kosmo

I made mention of the BES900 final test procedure on the production line back on page 14 post 333 Please don't take this post the wrong way as I write this post based on hundreds of posts that I have read on the subject both from Breville reps and laypersons For the length of time taken to develop the BES900, to the teething delays of the first production run . Breville decided to start with a limited production run to get it just right In all honesty with such a limited production run, all machines should have been perfect prior to shipping Most statements have been in the lines of testing and adjusting to set parameters because its a premium product Now I understand that during a production run of thousands of units, a small percentage may have faults but not the first run of less than 500 units KK

Cuppacoffee

AM, I think you are right, which is why I contacted Breville today and provided the following information on CS, and now here. Having had several discussions with Breville regarding the higher than expected gauge readings on some of the 900 series of machines, I have some further information from Breville. 1. The initial run of 900's were all calibrated using a scace device to 9 bar whilst in production, plus or minus .5 bar. In the real world, some machines that were calibrated this way gave high readings eg. 12 bar. 2. Machines that are now being manufactured for here and the overseas market, are being calibrated during production with a block filter instead of the scace. They will read either on or close to 9 bar in the real world. 3. If you own a machine that read high, then: a) It will not harm the machine b) It can be adjusted to 9 bar and is approximately a 5 minute job. No parts are replaced during the process. c) Breville are ensuring at least one major service centre in each city is capable of performing the work. This is already in place in Sydney and Brisbane with others to follow soon. Please call Breville if you have a machine that has a high reading and you would like to arrange to have the adjustment made. And please accept my sincere apologies if I misled owners or potential buyers in any way. FWIW, the machine I have at home reads high, yet makes great coffee. Cheers Den

Brett_H

AngerManagement wrote:

The issue is the lack of any real support.. A couple of posts and more and then this from a user (attempting to do their best to comment and support other users) ******** Welcome among the BDB owners. There is discussion about the pressure gauge earlier in this string. Mine also shows 12 while I get great coffee. The machines are factory set at 9 bar, however the gauges are not particularly accurate. We cannot make any pressure adjustment. It beats me why there is a gauge if it is of no particular use. ********* Someone needs to tell them it is not the gauge or send them the link to here :o !!!! AND That with a little effort from Breville, they can enhance their coffee experience... In the short or maybe even long term, they miss out... Why is Breville NOT being proactive about this... A great chance to win Brownie points, but they keep quite... Ummmm, makes one wonder what else they might know about and be keeping quite ? Ummmm, Why the delay to the USA

Given that some of the early units found their way into specialty coffee retailers I'm sure we'll see proactive actions from those guys in relation to their customers. We can't expect the same from the big retailers but that is why many have shopped at smaller specialty retailers: peace of mind and excellent proactive after-sales service. I can't speak highly enough of Merlos and Chris at Bezzera here in Brisbae for their attention to detail, passionate service and outstanding product knowledge... I don't imagine that the service is any less down south given the competitive nature contemporary retail. You are spot on AM, an opportunity for Brownie points presents but not for Breville alone.

Brett_H

AngerManagement wrote:

Thanks Brett... Special deals on the BDB at about $1290 ? And for $199 one can own the Smart grinder so X-Mas should be a great time for super specials. However, it is NOT Always about being right.... ie. OPV stated performance and what users saw and who / what to blame.... It was about, there is an issue being raised; so lets get on top of it and get it sorted and if need be, an action plan to address those units with a real issue. Sounds like a way forward to me... Ops, not every one saw it that way :o However, due to the assumptions by many and SS stuff by others, those ones who spoke up; have been treated with little regard for their actual "real world and relevant engineering experience". There are a few people that I have dealt with over the years that I could not abide by and nor would I have a drink with them.... But my god, I respected their actual technical and or other skill sets... Coffee seems to be more about Twitter / FB and Social standing and Name dropping, rather than real world hands on... But now we move on... Must go and do my training ASAP... "MayBel says I am too technical. "

I completely agree! Web2.0 has served some businesses very well but the danger is that words that could be delivered with a good humored wink, can seem cold and harsh on a web page. You and I have seen first hand that the BDB is potentially a good little domestic machine; but, when a transparent approach to marketing is promised and then only partly delivered (how many posts and PM's have been deleted that could have been argued intelligently instead of hidden from view) or in some cases delivered with vitriol and disdain: I find myself irrationally hard pressed to recommend this machine in favor of pld favorites Silvia and Lelit. Sure, I'm not selling machines every day but I'm asked for advice on a weekly basis due to the nature of my work and my obviously unhealthy coffee addiction. Web2.0 is an amazing innovation to modern communication and advertising but the results can often be contrary to the intention. SS producing shots that look like liquid gold from a Sunbeam surely can't be Breville's marketing intention. The owners of these fine machines will prove to be it's saviours. Photos like Ros' and positive owners comments in these threads will help this little Aussie take it to the world. Unless there is a problem with the design for 110v in which case they're stuffed. Aussies are the best innovators and inventors, so this would be unlikely. More likely would be increased cost pressure from China and currency issues along with slowing discretionary spending in the US. Sometimes the time is just not right.... exhibit A: My shares portfolio 🙁

Vinitasse

Cuppacoffee wrote:

AM, I think you are right,... Cheers Den

I think you should frame that one AM 😉

Cuppacoffee

Quote from: Vinitasse: I think you should frame that one AM Maybe I should frame it. ;D Quote from: Angermanagement There are others more worth while Yes, I guess we can all say that. 😉

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