Syrups, Powders and Potions in Coffee shops or Cafes

FreshCoffee2

A VERY good question M. a) The sweet stuff is the entry level to coffee or more correctly, espresso...if you didnt allow them to put the sweet stuff in they would still be drinking coke. So from that point of view is it better to have them drink a double shot hazelnut skinny larrrrtehhhhhh, or no coffee at all hehehe! Dont answer that.... ;D b) No amount of sugar will fix a bitter bre, it just takes on a sour bitter/sweet character. c) You are full of cliches today 😉 😉 ! "...into coffee..." If we had a dollar for every time we've heard that old chestnut, and yes it is most often annunciated by people that that have no idea, but then....what would I know ;D Rgdz to all, A.

RichardM

My mum came over today - hadn't been here for nearly two weeks, and needed her coffee hit. She was telling me about how she has coffee at the local golf club, and asks for it half strength because they make it "too strong". She then drinks a double shot latte in a 160mL cup with no sugar. My conclusion: she doesn't know the difference between "strong" and "shithouse". If people want to add some kind of sickly sweet syrup to that kind of coffee, I guess that's fine. My opinion from earlier in the thread still stands though, of making some signature drinks, but still focusing on the coffee rather than turning your roaster/cafe into a syrup bar with coffee.

hazchem

RichardM wrote:

I have to disagree. I don't believe that if there is demand for a relevant product a cafe must cater for it. It's a business decision for each individual operator really. Doesn't that mean you agree???? I said if someone wants to buy it then you must cater for it. You said you only should cater for it if there is demand. Demand would be if someone wants to buy it. Not all cafes should have it, for sure. If there is no/little demand, for sure, definitely don't bother. Of course with this kind of thing the line has to be drawn - for example a "hole in the wall" operation with little space might have space constraints for example and not be able to stock them, no matter the demand.

perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough ... What I'm saying is that just because there is demand, it does not mean that a cafe must meet said demand. It's up to them, their own decision. If demand exists, the operator chooses whether or not to fulfil it. They don't have to, it isn't a MUST. I had a customer request lactose free milk today. I explained we have whole, skim & soy, but he still wanted a lactose free milk. So, I now know that demand for a lactose free milk exists, as I also know there is demand for rice & almond milks. However, I choose not to fulfil that demand. Just because the demand is there, it doesn't mean I must fill it.

RichardM

hazchem wrote:

perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough ... What I'm saying is that just because there is demand, it does not mean that a cafe must meet said demand. It's up to them, their own decision. If demand exists, the operator chooses whether or not to fulfil it. They don't have to, it isn't a MUST. I had a customer request lactose free milk today. I explained we have whole, skim & soy, but he still wanted a lactose free milk. So, I now know that demand for a lactose free milk exists, as I also know there is demand for rice & almond milks. However, I choose not to fulfil that demand. Just because the demand is there, it doesn't mean I must fill it.

I guess what I was referring to "demand" was more "adequate demand". For example, I'd not expect most cafes to have lactose free milk (which is what I drink - Pauls Zymil is better for texturing, but Lidells is better flavour in my opinion. I use Pauls Zymil at home), but I would generally expect them to have soy, because the demand seems higher. The main thing is as long as an operator has considered it one way or another, yes, it's their choice. If you were oblivious and said "we don't have sugar, we don't have soy, we don't have low fat because I don't like my coffee that way" and were turning away every second customer, that was more the "demand" I was referring to.

mycuppa

RichardM wrote:

My mum came over today - hadn't been here for nearly two weeks, and needed her coffee hit. She was telling me about how she has coffee at the local golf club, and asks for it half strength because they make it "too strong". She then drinks a double shot latte in a 160mL cup with no sugar. My conclusion: she doesn't know the difference between "strong" and "shithouse". If people want to add some kind of sickly sweet syrup to that kind of coffee, I guess that's fine. My opinion from earlier in the thread still stands though, of making some signature drinks, but still focusing on the coffee rather than turning your roaster/cafe into a syrup bar with coffee.

A few months ago, a medium/large sized cafe in SE Melbourne suburbs asked me to come and see them RE: potential of changing coffee. They were using an Imported Italian coffee and over the last 18 months had received quite a few new younger generation customers - new families moving in the area, etc. For the early morning coffees, their regular customers were sometimes making the odd comment about bitterness and this was now starting to play on the mind of the owner - was the coffee at fault ? had their customer's tastes changed, were they falling behind, is there a problem with their morning barista, etc ?. I turned up mid-morning to watch customers - sure enough 9 out 10 customers were putting 1 or more sugar sticks in the coffee - standard stuff like latte's and capp's. Without keeping a scorecard, up to half of the people were putting 2+ sugar sticks in their coffees with some stretching my imagination with 3 or more. For the trial - we placed our grinder and beans next to their existing house blend and the affable barista asked customers to try the different (new) beans. I was gobsmacked to see the customers continue their habit of adding 1+ sugar sticks to their coffees. Sure, it was human behavior and how would they know what to expect with the new coffee. At the end of 2 days trial - the results were mixed - some customers were accustomed to the "bite" from the existing beans mixed with the sugar sticks. Some were rapturous in their joy of not having to add sugar and therefore view the consequential health benefits - perceived or otherwise. The die-hard regulars wanted the bitterness as they considered the ritual of adding up to 3 sugar sticks as a traditional and ceremonial exercise associated with drinking coffee. I have a new level of respect for Jamie Oliver and his food revolution.

FreshCoffee2

Not to labour the point here but for the benefit of the non industry people reading this.... Most people will add the sugar regardless ie before even cupping the brew. One would need to advise every single client, emphatically, NOT to add sugar until they've tried the new coffee to decide whether they should add the sugar. The problem then becomes, that they are so used to adding sugar to the other coffee and therefore the flavour characteristic embedded in their memory for the brew in toto....which for an italian imprted blend is nothing like our style of coffees here. If the new coffee being trialed is a typically Australian style high grown arabica espresso blend, and if the Italian style espresso blend yours is being compared to is your typical high % robusta italian blend, it is a completely different style of coffee that doesnt actually taste good without the compulsory addition of 6 grams of sugar....and that is if it has been brewed properly. Thise italian blends have to be had with sugar....thier style is totally different to ours and the sugar actually "makes" the coffee so it can be said it is an integral part of the espresso where in Ausie style espresso....it is not. The clients who are used to drinking the italian blend, will not be able to handle the smoother and less "dramatic" character iof the Ausie blend not just for the lack of that very heavy mouthfeel and the caharcter imparted by the sugar, but also because afterwards the ausie blend lacks the punch of the italin blend because there is far less caffeine and oil in our style of coffee. It is a question of the style of coffee the client is accustomed to and to change that, they need to want to undergo the change and be willing to drink the new style for a period of time until they become accustomed to it....kind of like changing your favourite scotch over for another...it takes time. The "die hard regulars" I believe, have taken into consideration the completely differing styles in the two type of coffee and choose to stay with their encumbent after noting that the new blend with or without sugar is simply not the same. Hope that helps all, there is more to this particular discussion at tnis point than the addition of sweeteners because of the inherent differences in the blends being compared....and of course when we talk about sweeteners in this market we are usually assuming that we are comparing similar styles of coffee rather than Italian supermarket blends to high grown Ausie blends. All that said my own experience is that you cannot ask just any of your regular clients to try something different and comment....if you want a straight answer you have to be selective with the clients you ask....in terms of picking those you think are capable of actually adjudicating properly what you are asking them to compare and comment on. Rgdz, Attilio very first Crema site sponsor.

Dry_bean

Hate to press the point guys, what I'm seeing in this thread (as a consumer) are long winded posts from people involved in the industry explaining how and why customers should take their coffee sans sugar or any other perceived adulterant. Now, as I've explained many times before, I enjoy sugar in my coffee, 3 grams (level coffee spoon) in SB and 5 grams in a LB and have done since I first started drinking the stuff about 55 years ago, during this period the amount of sugar I add has not changed and quite honestly I feel absolutely no compulsion to change simply to satisfy the whims or perceptions of the industry. Reminds me of a good friend who ran a restaurant in a remote area with pretty much a captive clientele, as far as he was concerned the only way to cook a steak was rare (or in his terms blue) wobetide the customer who had the temerity to complain, the reaction was to dump the offending steak into the deep fryer for 5 mins, that worked fine when he was serving 250 meals a night with no competition, nowadays there is competition, his son runs the show and you can order your steak any way you prefer, my point being of course ignore customer preferences at your peril, they will and do vote with their feet. 🙂

hazchem

I don't think ANY one here is ignoring our customer's preferences. Given the chance, I'd always take the opportunity to talk to a customer about whether or not to have those added sugars. But if they find they prefer coffee with sugar, then they prefer coffee with sugar and that will be that. Like suggesting a certain meal for lunch that I think they might enjoy, I'd like to suggest other ways they _might_ enjoy their coffee. Just because I don't add sugar doesn't mean I expect the same of all my customers.

WotB

I have to say I would rather let the customer do it themselves, that way, it's one less thing for them to possibly complain about. It has nothing to do with time or workflow. Simply let them customise their purchase. You're there to only advise them that it may be nicer without any additions. No need to force your will upon the ones paying the bills.

Dry_bean

WotB wrote:

I have to say I would rather let the customer do it themselves, that way, it's one less thing for them to possibly complain about. It has nothing to do with time or workflow. Simply let them customise their purchase. You're there to only advise them that it may be nicer without any additions. No need to force your will upon the ones paying the bills.

I agree, better to let the customer add their own sugar, they will get exactly what they require. So if your not adding the sugar at what stage do you offer this sage advice, do you wait till they are seated with the hand hovering over the sugar container and then rush over and impart your words of wisdom, or do you have some other strategy? My feeling is the barista is there to make coffee to the best of their ability, not as an advisor, leave the advice giving to your local GP. Anyone who pesters me with unsolicited advice re the way I take my coffee has a pretty fair chance of losing me as a customer, fortunately it's never happened in over 50 years of partaking in our delightful beverage. ;D

WotB

Advice is given in the case of the curious customer, not as standard practice. There should be at least some sort of interaction between the customer and barista. Otherwise there is no element of service, only a procurement of goods. A human-operated vending machine, if you will. I have seen an example of a business model where each customer gets routed to a "station" where their coffee order is prepared by an individual barista, usually on a single-group machine. This gives a bit of face-to-face with the person preparing your beverage. A touch of personalised service.

adelaidecoffee

2 places of recent that i have visited have changed the way they serve a cappuccino. One of them added a chocolate sauce swirl to the cappuccino froth - all my good pre-impression of this place just went out the door at the presentation of this cappuccino. How can i take a place that serves a cap like this seriously. I cannot. Another place added chocolate/cocoa powder to the bottom of the cap (without sitring it in), so that when you finished you had a sludge of the powder on the bottom of the cap - this isnt as bad as the one above, but it still changes the cap into another drink which i never ordered. Keep the basic coffee's the way they should be, if you wish to added other stuff to them then call them something else.

beanflying

Strange Capps in Adelaide ??? If I am making a Capp I still ask the customer if they want chocolate on top or not. 95% take the choc as that seems to be the norm in Oz.

Dry_bean

adelaidecoffee wrote:

2 places of recent that i have visited have changed the way they serve a cappuccino. One of them added a chocolate sauce swirl to the cappuccino froth - all my good pre-impression of this place just went out the door at the presentation of this cappuccino. How can i take a place that serves a cap like this seriously. I cannot. Another place added chocolate/cocoa powder to the bottom of the cap (without sitring it in), so that when you finished you had a sludge of the powder on the bottom of the cap - this isnt as bad as the one above, but it still changes the cap into another drink which i never ordered. Keep the basic coffee's the way they should be, if you wish to added other stuff to them then call them something else.

Sounds quite bizarre, where were the strange brews served to you?

beanflying

Slow day and having read around on the net and Pumpkin Flavoured coffee anyone http://www.washingtonian.com/blogarticles/restaurants/bestbites/21470.html Got to stop reading online news :doh:

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