"I, too have read MOST of the forums on this web site over the course of many months", and disagree with your opinion that there is a lot of "silly side-tracking and going round in circles". Is your opinion any more valid than someone elses? Some of the players taking part in the Forum at the moment are technically very well heeled with loads of experience. 12 months ago the Forum was full of people with no technical expertise or experience who seemed intent only on regurgitating hearsay and bagging their supply and service providers amongst themselves. Certainly, it would make for a more well balanced Forum if there were more people from both ends of the coffee industries participating at the moment. If you are saying that respondents should should stick to the point more, I disagree with you. Monosyllabic answers would make for a very boring Forum and more important, there wouldn't be any of the peripheral discussion that helps expand the topic of discussion for better understanding. Monosyllabic answers do not benefit the person who posted the original topic. So if "Time is precious people! Lets better utilise it and stick with the topics," then I will have to repeat what's already been very well covered in this topic and that is that the problem with naming brands of equipment that respondents are happy with, is that what's good for one party is not necessarily good for another for a multitude of reasons. There are too many variables, and we are all individuals working in different environments. It's already been covered, honest. Many people are happy with, or not happy with Astroria, Bezzera, Bo-Ema, Brasilia, Diadema, Elektra, Faema, Futurmat; La Cimbali, La Marzocco, La Pavoni, La San Marco, Rancilio, San Marino, San Remo, Vibiemme, Wega, etc etc etc. Yes some of these machines are badge engineered versions of eachother, and some actually dont make very good coffee and cant be adjusted, and others lend themselves to adjustment and can be "tuned" by expert service providers. Their brand names have nothing to do with this, and some lesser known machines do a better job than some more well known ones. The client is in the hands of his service provider and a good service provider is imperative and an important part of what constitutes "good equipment". We are all individuals and have different expectations and requirements and get different levels of support from our suppliers IN DIFFERENT MARKETS. A good brand in one market may well be a dog in another. When it comes to grinders, as has already been extensively covered you get what you are given, except if you are "MAN ENOUGH" in this market, to buy your own. In additon to this, I dont think it will be too offensive to note that a great majority of staff being allowed to operate the equipment dont know the slightest thing about it and have never had any training therefore their opinions will only serve to mislead he who in good faith asked the original question. However in order to try and stick to the point for you: Cunil; Faema; Gino Rossi, Mazzer; and several other badge engineered makes, all do the job to various degrees of satisfaction dependent on the individual circumstances of use, and your own individual opinion. If 21 Grams still thinks that some participants in the discussion are "arrogant and self righteous" simply because they have their own apparently (to me) very well informed opinions, perhaps he or she can advise how anyone could possibly get the point across without this kind of discussion? This topic is interesting and obviously "hot" because it is simply bigger than monosyllabic answers can provide. G.
