Milk Temperature

UNM

Don't take it personally ronin. I'm not having a go at you and will happily try new things. just not this one. I am enjoying this thread. Regarding temperature, not an issue as my mouth is asbestos lined and I am not stoopid enough to place scalding hot coffee between my legs and then spill it as one lady in USA did (sparking one lawsuit that saw coffee temps drop) at MacDonalds. I find an espresso (or long black) doesn't need to cool as sipping it reduces the temp sufficiently. prob the same with flat white. Gulp hot drinks at your own risk.

shape_shifter

I'm willing to give it a go, I just haven't been around much to read what is happening. I steam my milk for the Original Hot Chocolate chocolate to 80 degrees before I add the chocolate. As most know I don't actually like milk so I should be able to tell a difference in the taste if something goes wrong 🙂

hiphipharar

UNM wrote:

...place scalding hot coffee between my legs and then spill it as one lady in USA did (sparking one lawsuit that saw coffee temps drop) at MacDonalds.

Are yes, poor old (late) Stella Liebeck. Here's some interesting info: http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html Check what it says in the "here's the kicker" part. H

Lacehim

Ronin wrote:

I must say I'm a little dissapointed in the responses thus far. I was hoping for some positive conversation and not what I'd find on other forums.

Rightyo Mr Grumpy pants, I'll give it ago and give you some feedback. Is there any change in technique to heating it to 80? The in laws will be happy anyway, they are always moaning that my coffee is too cold! But they do leave it sitting for 10minutes after I give it to them, so that's not suprising to me. I brew, and drink straight away, but I suppose I can wait for 4 mins and clean my workstation. Might be a good thing considering it's current state.

Ronin

Lacehim wrote:

Rightyo Mr Grumpy pants, I'll give it ago and give you some feedback.

Not grumpy cause I'm on hols 😉. If I was grumpy I would still be posting in this thread. I don' do anything different except steam it longer, I can't even guarantee that I'm steaming it to 80 as I don't have a working milk thermometer. For normal use I would steam the milk to so I can hold my hand on the jug for about 2-3 sec. With the experiment I steamed until I could only hold it fop 1/2 to 1 sec. Be warned tho, it screams. Looking forward to others thoughts, good and/or bad.

Lacehim

I had just finished a lovely latte when I posted, so I went back and made another one with hotter milk. With my thermometer it rolled slightly into 80+ (how accurate my thermometer is I don't know, not very I can imagine) but surprising it wasn't screaming. I then poured it straight into a prewarmed, dual wall glass with a normal shot (for me anyway). Waited 4 minutes (I timed it) and the temp was only 10 degrees lower! I had a taste, it was fine, but still too hot for me, more cooling, and a few more tests, and I can say it didn't taste bad at all. I was quite suprised because I thought it would taste rancid. The coffee certainly tasted milder, there wasn't the punchy coffee taste I usually get, and any ideas about latte art are right out the window! Mind you I did burn my tongue! 😛 I might try this with my in laws, see what they say. I will say this, it was a bit annoying waiting for it too cool down and I hate burning my tongue!!! An interesting test anyway Ronin.

derrilex

" Newbie twats are cult like in their mindset." Well this "newbie twat" tried it also. Usual shot in the usual pre warmed cup. Milk steamed to about 70 then heat soak took it to spot on 80. I left the thermometer there for a few seconds to see if the temp went above 80. It didn't but like Lacehim I have no idea how accurate the thermometer is. After 4 mins it was still @ 70 or just under. Way too hot to drink but I started anyway. As Lacehim said, the coffee was a bit less punchy. I didnt find it unpleasant but it did have that hot milk smell you get when heating milk on the stove top - funky. Half way through and I could drink it normally. I found the process yielded absolutely no benefit at all to the cup and for me does nothing other than to keep me from a less than satisfying coffee for 4 minutes. The 80 degree milk certainly didn't propagate some sort of alice in wonderland transformation to the espresso. Now I'm no scientist and I dont care that milk doesnt scald until 87 degrees or that the milk wont steep with the espresso at under 80 degrees. If it sounds like bullshit and tastes like bullshit - its bullshit. :stir Here's to un-synthesised coffee. :thumb:

Brett_H

Righto... Gave it a go! Didn't like the four minute wait because the microfoam was flattish. As for heat and flavor I wasn't fussed one way or another. Yes it was warmer than usual which was good but I think the flavor was less sweet than usual. I won't be changing the way I do things because I like my way better. If I was served at a cafe that I made this afternoon however, I'd be more than happy.

askthecoffeeguy

I for one steam my milk to 55C in the jug so that it ends up being 63C in the (preheated) cup - which is just the way I like it - if you ask me the temperature and duration of the cup preheat is just as important as the milk temperature as cold cup = cold coffee!

Jonty

I have no idea what my temp is.......... 8). I use a temp tag and love it with which I just hold a few seconds longer on yellow for my personal preference versus the wife in which I pull right on the tag changing colour. KISS Jonty

Ronin

Brett H wrote:

I think the flavor was less sweet than usual. I won't be changing the way I do things because I like my way better.

After being told to try this (without knowing what to expect) the ones I cupped seemed to be sweeter than normal, and the coffee cut through the milk better ( the full cream milk I used seemed to have less buttery mouthfeel to it). Talking to the guys at the roastery they seemed to find the same. Perhaps it is milk brand dependent too. I'll not be changing either but thought it was an interesting experiment and wanted to share.

derrilex

Yep, definitely worth a try in hindsight. I wonder if any of the old fella's 30 cafes are still operating and if so, where and do they serve at 80 ?

Koffee_Kosmo

Can you ask the old bloke if the milk went into a cold or hot cup?

Ronin

derrilex wrote:

Yep, definitely worth a try in hindsight. I wonder if any of the old fella's 30 cafes are still operating and if so, where and do they serve at 80 ?

Don't know if any still open. Might see if he still works. He's in Brisbane I believe.

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

Can you ask the old bloke if the milk went into a cold or hot cup?

Hot, the theory is it allows the coffee to steep into the milk better.

Thundergod

"Said elderly gentleman started as a barista at the age of 14, in 1959." = born 1944, now 68 years old. "Has started over 30 cafe's through aus and been a barista for 40 years. So he knows some stuff." Most cafes that start, fail within the first 5 years. Starting 30 cafes in a 40 year working life does not mean a thing and works out to one new one every 16 months. Back to his age - if he started at 14 and has 40 years barista experience that takes him to 54. There's 14 years missing where he was doing something else. Now if that 14 years is all recently that could explain the numbers but would also mean he hasn't driven an espresso machine in all that time. Not enough facts for me to judge his credentials. Feel free to send me his Twitter account details in order for me to fill in some of those blanks. P.S. I love my milk and when younger mum would bring it to the boil in winter for a bedtime drink but these days I prefer the milk in my coffee at 65C; anything hotter doesn't taste right to me.

Ronin

Thundergod wrote:

Starting 30 cafes in a 40 year working life does not mean a thing and works out to one new one every 16 months.

My Bad info it seems founded 16 Cafes over 30 yr period. Built and traded Moors Espresso Bar, Sydney's Chinatown early 1980s.. the espresso benchmark in those days. Pm Sent

Thundergod

My father had an espresso machine in his cafe in the early 1960s. Being a pioneer in the industry would that also qualify him as an expert?

Ronin

Thundergod wrote:

My father had an espresso machine in his cafe in the early 1960s. Being a pioneer in the industry would that also qualify him as an expert?

Hmmm. Odin, Espresso pioneer of Asgard. Is that where you get your strength TG? :stir

shape_shifter

Ok I did this today and my findings, well the final conclusion was that it was way too hot even after 4 minutes and it tasted like instant. All flavour had been lost, I made sure I used the same coffee, same amount, time for pour etc so the only change was literally the milk temperature. Never again I tell you, I have no idea how my mother drinks her coffee this way.

GaryatGala

First of all, i'm not patient enough to wait before drinking my coffee. Secondly, i burnt the tip of my tongue trying to gauge and test. I agreed after letting it cool down enough to drink, there was less flavour and the milk tasted scalded. That man certainly has more dead tongue cells than all of us combined over the years of drinking hot coffee. The other thing is people will ask you for a hot hot coffee, and then proceed to let it sit for minutes before drinking it. This is common in work places where people are busy and dont want to drink it straight away, so while they are working, they can take sips and the coffee is still at their liking for temperature. I have heard of the adage, "one man's meat is another man's poison", but certainly this is more like poison as far as quality coffee is the subject. So now i have tried 80 degrees and the dark side. Never again. 😛 Gary at G

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