Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

Moon

Recent coffees have rated 8.8 - 9.3/10 with variations in pour time .. only unable to reach the dizzy heights of the previous 9.5/10. My first for today limped in at 8.7/10 .. and hoping to improve on that shortly? I'm wondering whether recent mood swings are directly related to the drop in coffee consumption and the quality in the cup? Better get out there and make another .. as you're only as good as your last coffee made .. and 8.7/10 isn't up to scratch these days. I'm aiming for at least a 9.2/10 from Miss Lusso this time. Make it so..... (bit of Picard there) Back shortly with the result.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ahhh .. inner-peace and sanity has been restored. :thumb: 17g .. dropped the +3 Pour: 20 secs 1st lever pull and 10 sec 2nd pull = 30 secs Shot - 30ml Rating - 9.3/10 (Silver) Lacked a tad of richness for a 9.4+ rating .. but very nice. I can live with that .. however.. Might have to try tweaking the grind a fraction finer for that Gold Medal cup though? Either that .. or extending the 1st lever pour from 20 to 25 secs? Current thinking is that a total 35 sec pour is perhaps the sweet spot .. according to my taste. *Moon - going for Gold!

Moon

1. First for the day rated an 8.9/10 and had that 'oily' flavour about it which tends to dominate the experience. I'm not sure whether it is actually due to the 'oils' in the beans.. and although I don't mind a little of this at times, I prefer it wasn't there. 2. Settled for the one lever pull only on this one Pour: 40 secs Shot: 15ml Rating: 9.2/10 Very nice .. smooth and had the chocolatey thing going .. nice - but seemed to lack depth, which I'm finding when only using 1 lever pull for the shot .. and therefore left me unsatisfied. Went down so well it left me wanting more. 3. Backed the grind off a smidgen. Beans: Used the last of the 'Barista' (13g) topped up with 'Espresso' (4g) 1st pour - 25 secs. 2nd pour - 10 secs = 35 secs. Shot: 25ml Rating - 9.5/10 Gold medal coffee - delicious :thumb: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With these beans having matured/settled after roasting (it has been about 21 days) .. & becoming stronger (or richer as mycuppa prefers) - I'm finding that the 25 sec 1st extraction along with a short 10 sec 2nd extraction (as in '3' above) is ideal for my taste. i.e. 17g .. polish only - 35 sec total pour - producing 25ml. If not mentioned already .. I leave the steam wand open while the boiler is heating up .. then when it reaches boiling point and the steam starts .. I close the steam knob. This eliminates false pressure when it reaches 1.2 bar .. and the necessity to then bleed it off.. which can take 2 or 3 goes. For the moment .. I am still not locking in the PF until the lever is horizontal to listen for the release of the slight false pressure in the group (haven't always been doing this) I then lock in the PF and complete pulling the lever down for pre-infusion. I'm not waiting the 10 secs for drops to appear .. but raising the lever after 5 secs to facilitate saturation of the grinds .. pull lever down, release .. and watch the clock to time the pour which starts when it drips .. not when the lever is released. There is a 4 sec delay. At times .. drops do appear after say 5 secs, only it is inconsistent and my current belief is that it is better to keep the saturation of the grinds to a minimum prior to pulling the shot. There would be varying views on this .. only for now .. I'm in the 'shorter the better' camp.

Brett_H

Great stuff Moon. You're certainly getting great coffee and a great education out of that machine! Do you have many coffees to make on Crustmas day? Doing five or six back to back gives you and your gear a workout!

Moon

Hi Brett Cheers .. and no .. I'm going out for lunch on Christmas Day out Sunbury way to a hotel/Restaurant for my annual Turkey fix. No doubt I'll be checking out their coffee machine & grinder .. although .. shame I know, and hate to say it .. I'll be going for a Bundy & Cola instead of a latte on this occasion. Something about all that rich food and stuffing myself .. followed by a milk coffee doesn't sit well I'm afraid .. a Man's gotta know his limitations n all that. Finishing off with a nice Port might be the go? The coffees are going really well. Haven't tried using my home roasted green beans in my Lusso as yet .. which I'll get around to .. as well as another play with my Spong No4 hand grinder that has been on the back-burner while I get some good quality coffees happening more consistently .. to keep me going throughout the experimental phase. Coffee machine and grinder are going great. Never had it so good .. and what a luxury to be able to make Cafe quality coffees at home whenever you feel like one. Yeah Baby! :rofl: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's pretty rare that I would have to make multiple coffees for a group of people .. so I'm happy with the single group machine. i'm single .. but if you have a partner that's also into coffee .. and have people over that like a nice coffee .. I would definitely recommend getting the 2 group machine. What fabulous little coffee machines these Ponte Vecchio Lussos are.. I can see now why once getting one .. owners are so reluctant .. and rarely part with them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Only have mycuppa 'Espresso' beans left 17g .. Pour was a little quicker .. so perhaps the Espresso beans aren't quite as 'dense' as the Barista beans? Pour: 20 + 10 ( 1st & 2nd lever pulls) = 30ml Rating: 9.1/10 Comment: Compared to the last coffee which was a Barista 75% .. Espresso 25% mix .. I've concluded that I prefer the Barista beans over the Espresso. Perhaps the 30ml pour rather than the previous 25ml played a part? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have just ordered another kilo of Barista from mycuppa - and a group cleaning brush .. and was thinking about blending some Espresso in with the Barista .. only to get close to the 75 - 25% bean ratio .. I needed only 250g of Espresso .. and it only came in 500g pks .. so I didn't order any of the Espresso. Barista is classed as a 'mild' blend .. and thought by adding some stronger beans into the mix .. it would give my coffees that little lift in flavour that my earlier 9.5/10 cup of coffee had when it had some Espresso beans in the mix. Although I'm leaning towards the mildness of the Barista .. I have felt that for my taste .. it needs that little extra in its punch.. without being a full-on espresso blend. Seeing I only have the Espresso .. and need to wait a week or so after they arrive to settle .. I get some time to play with the Espresso blend to see what I can come up with? I'll probably pick up some other brand of beans during that time just to try a different flavour. I find that a change keeps the taste-buds on their toes .. if tongues have toes .. that is?

Moon

Crikey .. only managed 1 coffee this morning (not bad 8.9/10) I still drink coffee on a hot day .. only 40 deg is a stretch. Had to resort to drinking a few Bundy & Colas ---> each rating 9/10 .. no complaints there :thumb: Back to 29 deg tomorrow .. that's coffee drinking temperature .. so back to normality/coffee bliss. Ordered from mycuppa last night and they've emailed me that it has been shipped. They don't muck around.. which is good. I should ask them for the roasting date .. so I can work out a more accurate resting period .. seeing the few days prior are a bit volatile before they settle down and behave themselves.

Moon

Beans were shipped on Thurs Nov 28th Received on Mon Dec 2nd Packet opened around Dec 9th ('Barista' beans) Beans were transforming Dec 11,12,13 Sweet period : Dec 14th - Dec 18th ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yesterday, Dec 19th was 40 deg 1. Made a coffee late at night. Pour: 1st pull - 10 secs, 2nd pull - 5 secs = 15 secs Shot - 30ml Rating - 7.6/10 This was a sinker, only I drank it - as it was late and couldn't be bothered making another. * i reckon any Coffee rating below 8/10 is sub-par, and anything around 7.5/10 is a sinker. 2. !st for the morning Adjusted grind a fair bit finer due to the fast pour. Pour: 1st pull - 10 secs, 2nd pull - 5 secs = 15 secs Shot - 15 ml Rating - 7.8/10 Way too fast .. the finer grind made no difference and had to hold back the lever spring to try to slow it down a bit. Pretty ordinary, and if I wasn't hanging out for my first coffee .. this would have ended up down the sink. No crema at all. That's 2 shockers in a row. I'm wondering whether these beans have progressed past their sweet period .. and have lost it? Well, either that or I've lost it <--- right up there with the short odds favorites. If it is the beans? .. then in this case - the 'sweet' period started on the 14th and finished on the 19th .. meaning its peak lasted only 5 days? The beans had been placed in a sealed plastic container and stored without opening in a dark cupboard (24 days total after roasting).. I wonder whether yesterdays heat may have shortened the sweet period? The heat may have dried the beans out a bit .. therefore reducing the density from less moisture .. although I would have thought pre-infusion would have restored the lost moisture prior to the shot? *Perhaps someone could enlighten us? .. as I have no idea how long I have to use beans once they have reached their prime? mycuppa has mentioned that hot days speed up the ageing of the beans. If the beans are say - in their prime for roughly 5-7 days - this is too short to use a full kilo of beans, and therefore would have to order smaller quantities more frequently, as I only consume about 300g per week.

Koffee_Kosmo

In my case - as the beans age I adjust the grind In most cases finer works supplemented with a harder tamp Surprisingly I sometimes grind courser and tamp harder - ( gorilla hard ) KK

UNM

Moon wrote:

If the beans are say - in their prime for roughly 5-7 days - this is too short to use a full kilo of beans, and therefore would have to order smaller quantities more frequently, as I only consume about 300g per week.

Freeze some. I suggest you browse other threads for details on how to and differing opinions on the utility of freezer beans

Moon

Thanks for the tips fellas. Much appreciated 🙂 My first impression to the idea of freezing beans was negative, however after reading an article from a well regarded Coffee connoisseur who did some testing .. gave freezing the thumbs up because he couldn't taste any difference in the cup - when comparing beans that had been stored in the freezer with those that hadn't. I'll do some more checking out on this.. to find out the best time to freeze them i.e. when you get them? How do they 'age' when frozen? and do you store them normally until they reach their prime .. and then freeze them, so that they are at their peak when thawing? Is it best to thaw only enough for a day .. few days etc.. Anyone got some idea of how long beans stay in their 'peak' period before becoming a bit long in the tooth? .. and what changes do you detect to identify the changes the beans go through.. Less or no crema? bitter? I will Google around .. just wondered what the locals have experienced themselves .. and your interpretation of what may be going on?

Ol_Grumpy

I've found, that each and every bean behaves a little differently, in that the sweet spot can and does (but not always) change, day to day. However, the sweet spot is still there, if not a little more elusive. It's a bit like finding where the fish are hiding, today. Find the spot and, "You're On!" I notice that Jeff recommends a max consumption time of 2 months on roasted beans. Anyway, As a flavour taste comparison, I bought a few small bags from a large well known (in SE Qld anyway anyway) coffee shop franchise. I bought several small bags with quite varying 'best before' dates ranging from 1-2 months post roast to nearly 12 months post roast. The coffee from the Franchise chain was quite smooth, but lacked any real character and zing, in comparison to the freshly roasted beans from @MC. I would describe them as quite numb and bland- but probably a lot more predictable and I certainly didn't have any trouble finding and keeping a decent grind/brew profile. I could still squeeze some crema, but nothing like the 100% crema I can get from Jeff's fresh beans... However, Once I've tried some truly fresh roasted quality beans from @MC and a couple of other local speciality roasters, I just couldn't and wouldn't 'go-back' YMMV

Ol_Grumpy

On the question of freezing? I know nothing about it, but as an alternative have you considered either getting a 500gsm once per fortnight and simply having constant fresh beans? Or maybe it's time to consider 'roasting your own' and having an endless supply of fresh roasted coffee? I believe the greens can keep up to 2-3 years.... Much to ponder, eh?

conikal

Freezing. You will get everyone's opinion on this, so ultimately you will just have to test it yourself. For what its worth, i have used freezing successfully for exactly the reason you are considering it... to preserve an excess of beans and extend the useable time period. Sometimes i even grind still frozen beans straight into the PF and brew. No detectable difference to quality or taste of the brew to similar "fresh" beans. But then, my tasting skills are not hyper sensitive ! ...however i can tell a good coffee from an average one. :thumb:

mycuppa

Moon wrote:

Thanks for the tips fellas. Much appreciated 🙂 My first impression to the idea of freezing beans was negative, however after reading an article from a well regarded Coffee connoisseur who did some testing .. gave freezing the thumbs up because he couldn't taste any difference in the cup - when comparing beans that had been stored in the freezer with those that hadn't. I'll do some more checking out on this.. to find out the best time to freeze them i.e. when you get them? How do they 'age' when frozen? and do you store them normally until they reach their prime .. and then freeze them, so that they are at their peak when thawing? Is it best to thaw only enough for a day .. few days etc.. Anyone got some idea of how long beans stay in their 'peak' period before becoming a bit long in the tooth? .. and what changes do you detect to identify the changes the beans go through.. Less or no crema? bitter? I will Google around .. just wondered what the locals have experienced themselves .. and your interpretation of what may be going on?

Moony ol chap. I doubt the beans would have gone from hero to zero in such a short time. Probability of say 5% or maybe 10% as it can happen but generally with an SO rather than a blend and typically on certain roast profiles (not typically the styles we use). We did experience some extreme heat during the week and yes this dramatically degrades the quality of roasted coffee - there may be something in that clue and combined with storage method and maybe timing (it could have been on the older shoulder of peak) it could be a number of factors multiplied that cause a dramatic change between one day and the next. We see it in Specialty cafes all the time - a coffee hitting a memorable peak one day and the next it's just so-so. With experience, you will develop techniques to adapt based on your specific equipment - there is never a simple blanket answer for such things I'm afraid. From now until the mid April, temperature plays an important role as the majority of our coffees are delivered by 3rd parties we can't control that aspect except to ensure everything is managed perfectly at our end when it leaves our warehouse.

Brett_H

mycuppa wrote:

Moony ol chap. I doubt the beans would have gone from hero to zero in such a short time. Probability of say 5% or maybe 10% as it can happen but generally with an SO rather than a blend and typically on certain roast profiles (not typically the styles we use). We did experience some extreme heat during the week and yes this dramatically degrades the quality of roasted coffee - there may be something in that clue and combined with storage method and maybe timing (it could have been on the older shoulder of peak) it could be a number of factors multiplied that cause a dramatic change between one day and the next. We see it in Specialty cafes all the time - a coffee hitting a memorable peak one day and the next it's just so-so. With experience, you will develop techniques to adapt based on your specific equipment - there is never a simple blanket answer for such things I'm afraid. From now until the mid April, temperature plays an important role as the majority of our coffees are delivered by 3rd parties we can't control that aspect except to ensure everything is managed perfectly at our end when it leaves our warehouse.

Wonderful post mate! Thank you. I wanted to reply but couldn't have articulated this as well as you have and as kindly as you have. Many thanks!! Moon, I know of folks who store their beans in the wine humid-thingy. I don't have one of those because my wife doesn't believe in multiple mid-life crises.

Moon

Espresso beans were the frontrunners early on - and Barista the bridesmaid .. only recently I have decided to file for divorce on the Espresso and considering eloping with the Bridesmaid (Barista) ;D The Barista beans arrived .. and I figured .. stuff-it, I'm gonna open it up and give 'em a try - knowing full well that they are a bit wet between the ears. Sorry Espresso .. back in the cupboard for now .. you'll get another chance later.. it's a short fuse tho.. pick it up or you're history lol. Besides, it is part of my job description that I pick my favorites .. and discard the rest. I'm well aware that my experience can be totally diffent to that of others .. only this is about me. Selfish I know 😉 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We did experience some extreme heat during the week and yes this dramatically degrades the quality of roasted coffee - there may be something in that clue and combined with storage method and maybe timing (it could have been on the older shoulder of peak) it could be a number of factors multiplied that cause a dramatic change between one day and the next. We see it in Specialty cafes all the time - a coffee hitting a memorable peak one day and the next it's just so-so. [/quote] Phew .. this admission changes the odds. Likelihood of it's the n00b (me) getting it wrong down from 99% to 95% Murphy's Law coming into play here - if it can happen .. it will most likely happen to me. No surprise there. It's amazing how often I have a problem with an item I've purchased, and when returning it .. the Salesperson says - ''This is the first time this has ever happened'' .. and I'm standing there thinking to myself .. Wow .. I'm the lucky first.. I must be 'the chosen one' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brett H wrote:

Wonderful post mate! Thank you. I wanted to reply but couldn't have articulated this as well as you have and as kindly as you have. Many thanks!!

Brettmate .. feel free to jump in the deep end anytime .. you know .. fortune favors the brave n all that 😃 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No regrets going for the 'young' Barista beans. N00b to n00b .. I can relate and appreciate that they have some developing to do before blossoming into all their splendour. I'm with you all the way Barista :-* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On a side note. The group cleaning brush that I purchased along with the Barista beans. +ve - looks fine .. +ve - solid construction .. +ve - long bristles.. -ve - bristles way too stiff for this application. Rating 3/10 (harsh but fair) +ve - There must be something else this can be used for - to get some value for my $6.50 investment :🙂

Koffee_Kosmo

There is also a steam brush thing it plugs over your steam wand tip and cleans and brushes with steam Have seen them used and gave them a go but never owned one Maybe just what you need [attach=1] [attach=2] You can also soften bristles by this method I found on the net ( never tried it so not sure it it works ) http://www.ehow.com/how_7193853_soften-hair-brush-bristles.html KK

Moon

They look good KK .. where do you get them? The bristles used in the brush are synthetic .. afaik .. only natural fibres can be soaked and softened? UNM - You have one of these group brushes from mycuppa .. how is yours going? Sounds to me that you don't have a Lusso if you think these brushes are ok .. or you've modified it to reduce the bristle volume/size?

Moon

As for the group brush .. all is not lost - as I need a brush to clean the inside of the angled clip on the temperature gauge. A small brush is a handy item to have by the kitchen sink to get into those tight spaces. For the PV Lusso, due to its smaller group & PF .. the volume of the bristles on the brush is too large to fit up in-between the edge of the screen and the inside of the group. You have to squeeze the bristles to fit them in to reach the seal .. and then continue pinching them while you circle around. The outer bristles need to be removed if the brush is to be used on a Lusso. Because they are too stiff anyway .. I won't bother doing this and prefer to chase up KK's steam option? Until I remove the seal .. I have no idea how soft it is, and whether it is rubber or one of those firmer plastic types? If it is rubbery, then brushing it after each use with a stiff brush may damage/wear the surface of the seal .. which is why a stiff brush is unsuitable imho, whereas the Lussos powerful steam wand should easily lift and blow off any residue or grinds that stick to the seal? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STOP THE PRESS ---> Moon has a new Rating System I've decided to go with UNMs (query/hint).. and change my rating system to a more accurate one - based on where I am at the moment. Previous ratings have been much too *generous .. that's the sort a Guy I am :angel: 7/10 - Borderline sinker. Anything below this can compete with a cup of Moccona. In a Cafe .. if after paying $3.50-$4 for one of these flavored milk types (below 7/10) .. I have been known to front up to the counter to ask whether they'd forgotten to put the coffee in? It's not only the feeling of being ripped off by someone who either hasn't got a clue as to what a good coffee is .. or couldn't give a stuff .. for me .. it's more the disappointment of being deprived of the enjoyment that you were looking forward to once deciding to go and get a coffee. If I haven't been in an area before .. I'll pop my head through the door and say .. there's a few Cafes around here .. and I'm wondering who makes the best coffee? Of course they reckon they do.. so once they hand it over, I taste it while I'm inside to make sure it's at least passable .. if too weak .. I'll ask for another shot. I go for the win-win with the happy ending. By them saying they make the best coffee .. I'm getting a satisfaction guarantee. If the first effort doesn't shape up .. they get to try again 8) 7.5/10 - Pretty ordinary.. but in desperate times --> at least drinkable which puts it well above the Mocconas/Nescafe. 8/10 - Is a nice coffee and definitely moving into 'quality' territory. Happy if served up an 8/10 in a Cafe. I'd go back .. but only if there wasn't a better Cafe just up the road. 8.5/10 - This is a really yummy coffee which is about as good as it gets as a takeaway in a Shopping Center Complex. 9/10 - This is what you'd expect from those Espresso Bars that have the 'mature-aged' Italian/Greek/Turkish blokes sitting around a table playing cards with pictures on them. Making a 9/10 is my new Gold standard. It's a ripper mate. 9.2/10 - Hit the Jackpot - my personal top score. Any claims of higher than this and I'd be hallucinating on natural endorphins with a head full of thoughts about winning Australia's next 'Barista of the Year' award. If this happens .. send an ambulance .. I need medical attention. *Includes self-praise

Moon

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

There is also a steam brush thing it plugs over your steam wand tip and cleans and brushes with steam Have seen them used and gave them a go but never owned one Maybe just what you need KK

Exactly ..if only I could find who has them for sale? I've been searching around under different names and come up with zilch so far. I haven't tried 'steam brush thing' yet 😉 Any assistance finding this thing would be appreciated :thumb: *Crikey .. found it after keying in 'Coffee Machine Steam Brush (left out 'thing') it was displayed as an ad on the side of the listings - eBay <--- from England .. approx AU$77 + postage AU$18 = approx AU$95 They even provide a video of it being used .. nice touch.

Moon

Ok .. back to coffee making & keeping in mind the new tougher rating system. I'm now on Day 4 after receiving and using my new shipment of Barista beans, which according to mycuppa .. would have been roasted about 3 days prior to shipping .. close enough. lets call it Day 7 (after roasting) After adjusting the grind several times using the Espresso beans (after running out of my last batch of Barista) .. I've been unable to achieve a coffee that I have been happy with. Knowing that the new Barista needs time to mature to reach its peak, and therefore won't deliver the quality expected of it for some time yet .. I figured it had to be at least better than the luck I was having with the Espresso beans? Having taken the advice from other members here .. who have way more experience than I do .. I am putting my failure to manage the changes which appear to be occurring in the Espresso beans as they age .. down to inexperience. Whilst I am not enjoying the flavour of these beans in the coffees I have been making .. I am sure more experienced Baristas would be able to produce a much better result in the cup. As with the Guatemala .. I am again wimping out, and moving on to a bean that I have had more success with .. even though I am aware that the new batch of Barista could be a bit different from the last batch, especially if the bean type used in the blend has changed due to bean availability .. which is on the cards? With the last batch of Barista .. peak occurred from Day 14 - 18 .. which, no doubt would have lasted longer had I not run out. <insert sad face .. then add happy face for the good times while they lasted ---> glass half full 😉 Espresso was received at the same time and is now Day 27 since roasting .. 1 day short of 4 weeks. I have no idea how long these beans are considered 'usable' or the level of skill required by a Barista to extract the last bit of life from beans on their last legs? 4 weeks doesn't seem that long .. and I'm sure there are lots out there who would say 4 weeks is still well within a bean's prime? As for this budding barista .. I'm thinking, why continue drinking a coffee I know I am currently disliking .. when I can easily just revert to one I know I will at least enjoy to some degree, knowing it will improve .. and simply cut my losses. Sure .. it's a waste .. only that's the 'norm' when we live in a 1st World Country. If we were stranded out in a jungle for weeks .. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only forum member who'd jump at an offer for a cup of *gasp* International Roast? We can afford to be fussy. Using the new (tougher) rating system .. the coffees I've been making using the new Barista beans have been rating around 7.8/10 If 8/10 is the minimum rating for a nice cup of coffee that I am happy with .. then my recent coffees have been falling just short of that. If a Cafe served me up the standard I am currently making .. I would not complain .. only I'd try a different Cafe next time. Recently, the pour has been running too quickly .. I've adjusted the grind finer than ever before, increased the dose to 18g and reverted back to tamping firmly, rather than a very light tamp used previously .. to achieve a 25 sec 1st lever pull pour time.. then a 2nd pull for 10 secs to get a 30ml shot with 2 lever pulls totaling 35 sec.. which has been the standard aimed for *I'm guessing that a different bean (or 2) has been used in the Barista Blend this time? .. a bean that is not as dense as the previous one? It would be interesting if mycuppa could confirm this one way or the other? 7.8/10 is in the ballpark for Day 7 after roasting.. only I need to get it to at least an 8/10 (close but no cigar) 8) But then .. Just cracked it for an 8.1/10 (on the right side of the ledger with this one .. didn't change a thing) :thumb:

« Previous Page Next Page »