Ponte Vecchio Lusso - advice please?

Moon

Only 9.3 and above? C'mon .. it's the failures that will inspire us .. and keep in mind - we don't blame the beans :stir I'm having trouble getting a 9.2 these days .. so a few failures mixed in with the God shots will be appreciated. >😃

Brett_H

Santosa today. Even the wife commented on its yumminess. A 9.3 and a 9.2 (my fault letting the pour go a second or two over). We're off to a good start!

Moon

Will you also be giving them a run on the La Pavoni lever ? .. just a thought

Moon

Hmm .. almost a 9.2/10 for my 2 coffees today. Too harsh? >😃 The water in the boiler was drained last night after 2 1/2 days which was also a bit cloudy .. so fresh filtered water for todays coffees. Seeing I'm just about out of beans, I am using a single dose from whole beans in the hopper .. topped up with a single dose of ground beans stored in a jar over the last week from incorrect grind at the time .. and yet the coffees have bean the best yet. ??? Go figure. Also, I've noticed the microfoam hasn't bean as smooth. which does make a significant difference in the cup .. so I have the steam wand tip soaking in vinegar to erode the milk crust that is most likely partially blocking the steam. The microfoam wasn't right prior to lowering the pstat from 1.2 - 1.3 bar down to 1.0 - 1.1 .. which naturally lowers the steam pressure for frothing the milk. I reckon with the better microfoam .. and knowing the difference this has made in the past .. mycuppa's Barista would have scored a 9.2/10 .. as it was only missing out by only 0.1/0.2 of a point. Fair call? :thumb: Golly .. I've only got enough ground coffee for 2 more cups at a stretch .. and hoping my new batch arrives tomorrow .. otherwise I'll have to resort to using some old beans that have bean in the cupboard for a few months. :-[ Oh well .. I guess it's no worse than buying some beans from the Supermarket .. and needless to say, way better than going for that jar of instant sitting there, although I'd go for a teabag before that .. trust me. 8)

Kevohere

Moon wrote:

Hmm .. almost a 9.2/10 for my 2 coffees today. Too harsh? >😃 The water in the boiler was drained last night after 2 1/2 days which was also a bit cloudy .. so fresh filtered water for todays coffees. Seeing I'm just about out of beans, I am using a single dose from whole beans in the hopper .. topped up with a single dose of ground beans stored in a jar over the last week from incorrect grind at the time .. and yet the coffees have bean the best yet. ??? Go figure. Go figure indeed :exclaim: At least two 'rules' wrong (stale and incorrect grind) to achieving great coffee taste giving a "best yet" in the cup. Also, I've noticed the microfoam hasn't bean as smooth. which does make a significant difference in the cup .. so I have the steam wand tip soaking in vinegar to erode the milk crust that is most likely partially blocking the steam. The microfoam wasn't right prior to lowering the pstat from 1.2 - 1.3 bar down to 1.0 - 1.1 .. which naturally lowers the steam pressure for frothing the milk. Yep. I reckon with the better microfoam .. and knowing the difference this has made in the past .. mycuppa's Barista would have scored a 9.2/10 .. as it was only missing out by only 0.1/0.2 of a point. Fair call? :thumb: Golly .. I've only got enough ground coffee for 2 more cups at a stretch .. and hoping my new batch arrives tomorrow .. otherwise I'll have to resort to using some old beans that have bean in the cupboard for a few months. :-[ Don't allow panic to justify bad decisions mate. Surely there's a decent Barista in the neighbourhood. 😃 Oh well .. I guess it's no worse than buying some beans from the Supermarket .. and needless to say, way better than going for that jar of instant sitting there, although I'd go for a teabag before that .. trust me. 8) Maybe you should plan ahead and have some extra shots stored in the freezer. Just warm it up to brew temp in an Ibrik or similar, steam your milk and :coffee2: Cheers.

Moon

Thanks for that Kevo .. contributions are always welcome, warts n all .. just like my ratings. >😃 'Best yet in the cup' meaning for this lot of Barista. Besides, who can predict with any certainty what the next cup you make will bring? One day God shot .. next day sinker .. 'What did I do differently?' :tear hair: After my best of all time coffee coming from 7 week old beans from mycuppa that I had trouble with and stashed away for a while .. I figure the punters reading my story will know that I'm not one for sticking with the percentages .. and prepared to go out on a limb on the odd occasion ---> No risk no reward. 😛 If I plan ahead - I won't get myself in this position - i.e. running out of beans. Ultimately, I need to order 2 weeks in advance of running out. A week incase there are any delays .. and a week incase they need resting. Some blends are ready to go straight away. Major Tom, which is what I'm getting .. is one of those .. as is Georges Premium and Sirius Classic. Yeah .. that's the plan. Still a work in progress .. that. I'll get there :thumb: Decent Barista in the neighbourhood. Yeah .. pretty good, but haven't found one who makes better lattes than I do yet. Also a work in progress. The idea of getting up .. and then having to go down to town for my first coffee of the day is a tad dangerous. I ride a Scooter .. like a Vespa - I need to be wide awake when zooming along in traffic. In other words - I need my coffee first :angel: Thanks for showing up - come again soon 😉

Moon

Major Tom finally arrived today :thumb: Roast date Nov 24 (5 days) Using the same grind setting as a starting point .. and upping the dose a tad .. BANG! - a 9.2/10 straight off.. which is good. Pour was a bit long .. so eased the grind off slightly for the next one. Off to a flyer .. so let's see how we go from here :question: Moon is happy. :-*

Brett_H

9.2... You poor fellow 😉 MyCuppa Amazon roasted Nov 16 92degC on the DB (x2 one for the wife) A measly 9.6 for him but for/from her... 9.8!!! The comment :"I don't think a coffee could get much better, could it?' Didn't I marry well!!

Moon

Brett H wrote:

9.2... You poor fellow 😉 MyCuppa Amazon Didn't I marry well!!

Yep .. top priority .. marry a Gal who is right into her coffee. Big tick there. :thumb: Hmm .. Amazon eh? If it has that extra bite .. I'm guessing it's the Piranha bean :question: 9.6 & 9.8 ... Golly .. have to switch you both over to out of 11 shortly :stir We need to leave a little head-room for all the steam.

Moon

Had to go through the City of Melbourne a couple of days ago, so I dropped by a small Cafe in an arcade for a double-shot latte in a medium sized cup. This barista took himself and his gear pretty seriously .. and used Sungold milk ... which is decent. He used a Supreme brand blend from NZ. As I was drinking it .. I thought .. yeah, nice .. and gave it an 8.7/10 There's certainly nothing wrong with any coffee I make that scores a 9 or above. It's a bloody beauty mate. :thumb: Beats most of the Cafe coffees I've had .. by a fair margin. Occasionally .. I'll come across one that is ultra yummy .. but these are rare. Edit: Did an edit and the forum rejected it .. and took me back to have to log in. Crikey .. does this move need a rating?

Dry_bean

Just scanned quickly through part of this thread, seems since I was last around a system of rating coffee has been introduced, it seems quite precise, i.e. 8.7/10, perhaps someone can give me an explanation of the rating system or direct me to a thread explaining it :question: DB. 🙂 PS Just did an edit without problem.

Brett_H

Milk is Maleny Dairy and at most other times of the year it's a b!tch to microfoam but there's something about summer! It tastes so good at all times of the year but the foam was spot-on and has been for the last week !!

Moon

Welcome back Dry bean The ratings go like this <7.0/10 - ask for your money back if you purchased one of these in a Cafe .. you paid for coffee. 7.5/10 - is a sinker. You might drink it .. but only if there's nothing else around, and that includes tea. 8.0/10 - ok, drinkable but a bit of a Claytons coffee .. it's hot and that's about it. 8.5/10 - an enjoyable coffee. About as good as it gets from a Cafe in one of those multi-level Shopping Centres. There's lots worse. 8.9/10 - Just falls short of being very good .. which starts at a 9.0/10 9.0/10 - Very good .. but noticeably lacking in what it takes to make the 'elite' class. 9.1/10 - quality coffee .. only lacking the X-factor to join the elite 9.15/10 - Close .. but no cigar 9.2/10 - 'elite' .. now we're talking. Has the X-factor and big on 'yummy' Happy to drink this quality every day. 9.3/10 - Exceptional. The Crem de la crem. Made the top shelf category. 9.4/10 - Stunning. Only a few make it this far .. and can fluctuate from 9.2 .. to 9.4 on a good day - when the stars align. 9.5/10 - This score is for the best of the best .. only 1 bean has reached this height so far (adjusted) These ratings are what I am able to achieve with various blends and single origins when using my Compak K3 Touch grinder and Ponte Vecchio Lusso lever machine. Others using their own methods and equipment .. are likely to get a different result .. using their own rating system. I tend to be overly generous at the lower end .. e.g. an 8/10 should be good coffee, but I've rated it as only just drinkable. I try not to be too harsh .. as it is only what I am able to produce .. and others may easily get a much better result in the cup when using the same batch of beans. Coffees that rate in the 9s .. is where the real action and enjoyment is. :coffee2:

Kevohere

Brett H wrote:

9.2... You poor fellow 😉 MyCuppa Amazon roasted Nov 16 92degC on the DB (x2 one for the wife) A measly 9.6 for him but for/from her... 9.8!!! The comment :"I don't think a coffee could get much better, could it?' Didn't I marry well!!

How did you and your wife have the Amazon Brett? Espresso, LB, FW, etc. That's some serious scoring levels and as Moon says; "we need to leave some head room....." :thumb: But, that's what it' all about, enjoying our coffees, knowing/tasting that slight difference in the cup and tweaking this and that in chasing that (elusive?) "10" Great to hear you and your are really enjoying you coffee time. My partner took a little time adjusting to the Strega and was coming along very nicely until I put the BNZ alongside a few weeks ago. That "unsureness" soon diminished and she's now pulling some mean shots for our morning long blacks.

Dry_bean

Moon wrote:

Welcome back Dry bean The ratings go like this <7.0/10 - ask for your money back if you purchased one of these in a Cafe .. you paid for coffee. 7.5/10 - is a sinker. You might drink it .. but only if there's nothing else around, and that includes tea. 8.0/10 - ok, drinkable but a bit of a Claytons coffee .. it's hot and that's about it. 8.5/10 - an enjoyable coffee. About as good as it gets from a Cafe in one of those multi-level Shopping Centres. There's lots worse. 8.9/10 - Just falls short of being very good .. which starts at a 9.0/10 9.0/10 - Very good .. but noticeably lacking in what it takes to make the 'elite' class. 9.1/10 - quality coffee .. only lacking the X-factor to join the elite 9.15/10 - Close .. but no cigar 9.2/10 - 'elite' .. now we're talking. Has the X-factor and big on 'yummy' Happy to drink this quality every day. 9.3/10 - Exceptional. The Crem de la crem. Made the top shelf category. 9.4/10 - Stunning. Only a few make it this far .. and can fluctuate from 9.2 .. to 9.4 on a good day - when the stars align. 9.5/10 - This score is for the best of the best .. only 1 bean has reached this height so far (adjusted) These ratings are what I am able to achieve with various blends and single origins when using my Compak K3 Touch grinder and Ponte Vecchio Lusso lever machine. Others using their own methods and equipment .. are likely to get a different result .. using their own rating system. I tend to be overly generous at the lower end .. e.g. an 8/10 should be good coffee, but I've rated it as only just drinkable. I try not to be too harsh .. as it is only what I am able to produce .. and others may easily get a much better result in the cup when using the same batch of beans. Coffees that rate in the 9s .. is where the real action and enjoyment is. :coffee2:

Thanks Moon, much appreciated. Never really thought much about rating shots in this way, my criteria were pretty much, great approaching the ever elusive god shot, very drinkable as I would rate shots from 90% of cafe's in SA nowadays (yep the situation has changed remarkably in the past few years) average speaks for its self and swill, you still get em some times, nowadays I will complain if a coffee is undrinkable, most respond well and will make another, though if they had one shot and got it wrong chances are they will make another pretty much the same. 🙂 PS Rating your own shots must be a little like talking about your kids, perfect in your eyes, from the viewpoint of others, perhaps not so much. :🙂

Brett_H

Perhaps DB has articulated my fear... Rating ones own coffees may reveal narcissistic tendencies. The Amazon was as Flat whites and I'm sad to say for all and sundry today's milk fell well short of the 9s. When I offered to remake my wife's codffee as it had sat a while and the listless foam become a soggy reminder of its former self... She gulped, said no, this is great and went back to her iPad. Mine too tasted wonderful but the milk... Oh the milk (new container, same brand both unhomogonised). The Santosa my wife handed back, said sour, and she was right. Up goes the PID for that one. Scores in the 9's and even high 9's are completely possible, and in fact given the quality of machinery attached to most signatures here really, inexcusable if it's not happening. Barista courses are everywhere (there's one happening at my workplace next week!!!!) and knowledge abundant and accessible. That coupled with the fact the home barista is operating with equipment equivalent to a high-end fit out but without the volume and stress.... and only really one customer to please....

Moon

Dry bean. wrote:

PS Rating your own shots must be a little like talking about your kids, perfect in your eyes, from the viewpoint of others, perhaps not so much. :🙂

Nah .. no problem airing my deficiencies on this forum. Being a relative n00b amongst those with many years of experience with way more expensive equipment than I have .. the worst way I could go is say I'm consistently making myself 9.8/10 Godshots. In fact .. some believe I should be getting higher ratings than what I am giving myself. I try to Keepi it real .. inconsistency is what I'm best at .. although I do admit .. the variation usually lands within the range of 8.7/10 up to 9.2/10. .. meaning I most often end up with a nice coffee with a few extremely good ones on occasions .. so no complaints here. This coffee journey is warts and all.. and besides, nobody would believe me if the vast majority were 9.5/10 .. as even some of the veterans can have trouble dialling in their beans .. and achieve consistent high quality shots. I have bean told results are unpredictable and this keeps you on your toes. In my case .. it's often up one day .. down the next.. and I'm still discovering ways to improve the quality and consistency as I move forward. They say you need to experience pain to appreciate pleasure .. and it's much the same with coffee. You need to make and drink the duds .. to be able to WOW yourself when you make a cracker. If you made Godshots every time .. it would become the 'norm' and it would get boring. I know I need to try different beans .. blends and single origins which provides me with variable results in the cup.. which is the way I prefer it, as it refreshes my taste buds so that they don't get used to the same flavours and become lazy. I drink latte ... and if I were to guess an average rating for my coffees over the last 6 months - I'd say it would be 9.14/10

Moon

My Sister has gone on a trip to Vietnam .. and have come back from my first of 6 overnight stays to look after her pets. She has a Sunbeam 6910 I think .. those $600 twin boiler jobs .. that seem to last 5 years of little use before blowing a boiler. Anyway, I have to go over to the Shopping Centre to my favourite Cafe for my morning fix .. a Jumbo latte for $4.70 3 shots go into these .. and it it this Cafe where I set the standard of 8.5/10 being the best it gets in a Shopping Centre Cafe. The owner had 2 female Baristas .. both made good coffee using a Premium Lavazza blend. Yeah .. lol Lavazza :🙂 Both could make an 8.5/10 .. which was very tasty. The new owner lost both of them .. and replaced them with a bloke .. quality immediately dropped. Now the owner is the Barista .. and made me a triple shot Jumbo this morning.. It got a rating of .. wait for it ----> 7.9/10 I told him it was nice to be polite .. only I won't be going back. These Turkeys think making a quality coffee is easy .. and must think .. hmm? .. I can save money if I start making them myself. Yeah right d00d .. bean losing customers lately? (Won't) see you later. Glad to be home .. and about to make myself a decent coffee. ;D

Brett_H

9.14 as an average is :thumb:

Dry_bean

I'm still wondering just how the score is arrived at/constructed, are points allotted for viscosity, crema, mouth feel, shot time etc, Then it comes to taste! surely a subjective assessment, all beans are different, what suits one person may taste like crap to another, I dislike the earthy taste of most beans from SE Asia whilst others rate them very highly. So, if the taste is not too your liking, do you mark it down dramatically, when to others it may be a god shot. Another aspect I wonder about is the point system being used, seems very precise i.e. 8.7/10, a very subjective evaluation for what really should be an objective evaluation. Another point I seriously wonder about is rating your own creations without bias, conscious or subconscious creeping in (sorry Moon) not meaning to doubt you, have done enough assessing and evaluating during my working life to understand that evaluating your own efforts seldom leads to an accurate conclusion, independent audits in all aspects of industry are highly desirable. Just my thoughts on the subject. 🙂

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