Grind v Tamp v Cake - Relationship

Remus

10-12 seconds sounds a bit short to me mate. 18-25s is around the range you want. if you think about it, 10 seconds is alot of fluid. then again, if it tastes good who gives a cr@p ? 8)

[deleted]

Yep, I agree, 10-12 seconds is a little slow. If my extraction is that short on Miss, I end up with very bitter espresso. I've been aiming for about 35-40 seconds - I like a darker extraction. Coffee doesn't start to come out for 8-10 seconds but I can hear the sound of the machine change as the coffee is engulfed with water. Has anyone else got the EM6900 and had the same problemmo? Paulie ???

Honest_Gaza

Perhaps I'll direct the question to Sunbeam who are marketing this machine as "developed with Paul Bassett - World Barista Champion". If they want to play with the big boys, then they must use the appropriate guidelines.

Remus

[quote]Perhaps I'll direct the question to Sunbeam who are marketing this machine as "developed with Paul Bassett - World Barista Champion".

nzroaster

Hey Guys, This is an extract from Alan Frews Newsletter: "alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au www.coffeeco.com.au November 2005 Newsletter I've had several phone calls from disgruntled Sunbeam EM6900 buyers, complaining that they can't get shots which look like the ones in my review. Further investigation has always led to the "well, I bought some pre-ground espresso Lavazza/Illy/Coffex/Vittoria from the supermarket and there's no crema and it tastes awful!" There are 2 factors at work here: the supermarket coffees are invariably stale, and they are in fact ground to suit Moka Pots or espresso machines with pressurized, crema producing portafilters. The only way to get good shots from a non-pressurized machine like the EM6900 is with freshly roasted correctly ground coffee, as with any other "real" espresso machine. Which begs the question, exactly what improvements (if any) do pressurized portafilters make to a shot? In the spirit of enquiry I cobbled together a burnt out Saeco machine using spares from several other duds, and then experimented with both the pressurized and non-pressurized 53mm portafilters. My findings were as follows: 1) You HAVE to use a moka pot grind with the pressurized PF; a proper espresso grind chokes the flow. 2) The espresso produced has a thick, slightly frothy crema but is underextracted, with a thin body and a sour taste. 3) The same coffee used in the ordinary PF but with a correct espresso grind has a dense crema, full body and sweet flavour. My conclusion is that pressurized portafilters give the appearance of a good shot, although the crema is a bit pale and foamy, but do not make up for extraction deficiencies caused by the coarser grind. Throwing caution to the winds, I tried some brick packed Vittoria, and got a 10 second crema free shot with the normal PF, and a 28 second crema-laden shot with pressure. The pressurized shot had a higher level of extraction, due to the longer brew time, but both shots still tasted pretty foul. My overall take on pressurized systems is that you can get better results from poorly ground coffee than from non-pressurized systems, but there is no substitute for correctly ground coffee. Of course, correctly ground coffee won't work in the pressurized PF, so by and large the pressurized, faux crema producing portafilter is a marketing gadget, not an improvement." Hope this helps...

Honest_Gaza

Not after the first time I read it 😃 I'll go make a coffee, relax a little and then read it again to see if it makes any sense.

Honest_Gaza

OK NZ....I've read it a second time, and unless I've misunderstood, it's mainly advising that "pressurised" PF's have a problem creating good crema. It mentioned in the early parts of the article, that the Sunbeam 6900 is "non-pressurised" and therefore requires correct fresh ground beans as in any other "real" espresso machine......in which case, I'm still a little lost.

mattyj

I've got a mod for this machine (along the lines of PID's, toothpicks in the steam nozzles, La Marzocco baskets etc etc etc). This mod will hopefully solve some of your problems. All you need is a piece of gaffa tape*. Cut a bit of gaffa tape off the roll, and stick it over the guage so you can't see it anymore. Go a click or two finer on your grinder and pull a shot ... do the dial in thing till you hit the sweet spot of 20-30mls in 25-30 seconds. Then enjoy your espresso. *if you don't have gaffa tape, duct tape will do, as will pvc tape.

Honest_Gaza

All you need is a piece of gaffa tape*. Cut a bit of gaffa tape off the roll, and stick it over the guage so you can't see it anymore. Then enjoy your espresso. *if you don't have gaffa tape, duct tape will do, as will pvc tape.

So you think a swing of a hammer at the gauge is a little over the top ? ;D

[deleted]

Being a little pedantic, I would go to bunnings and purchase a little rubber stopper to suit the size of the hole in the stainless. Don't smash the guage but remove it and push it into the machine, then cover the hole with the black stopper, that would look much better than gaff tape.. ;D ;D ;D

FreshCoffee2

HG, take a look here: http://www.cremamagazine.com.au/forums/YaBB.cgi?board=2;action=display;num=1061689311 It's one of my best works (copyrite). If you are doing basically all that is described there, you should be on the right track. If you wish to slow down the rate of pour (from where you are at now) to see what happens when you follow "the rules", just keep experimenting by making the grind finer, then finer, then finer etc. My rule about "filling the filter" still applies as you go finer and finer...it always applies. If the machine gets to the point where you are concerned the coffee is too fine and no flow comes out of the outlets on the group handle, go backwards with the grind until you have

Honest_Gaza

HG, If at that point the gauge is off the scale, or wherever, as has already been said, cover it with a bit of tape and forget about it (although if they're big on name dropping on how the machine was designed "in collaboration" with a past world barista champeen, you should ask them why the gauge shows you are in the "right" place, when according to "the rules", you are not, and vise'versa!). Regardz, FC.

Yes FC....e-mail already sent to Sunbeam asking for clarification on what I should expect from this machine.

Honest_Gaza

HG, take a look here: http://www.cremamagazine.com.au/forums/YaBB.cgi?board=2;action=display;num=1061689311 It's one of my best works (copyrite). If you are doing basically all that is described there, you should be on the right track. Regardz, FC.

A great read thanks FC.

Honest_Gaza

After reading Alan Frew's notes on the Sunbeam (as posted by NZRoaster), I decided to send Alan an e-mail to see what levels of success he had with the Sunbeam when he was taking it for a test drive. In short, his reply suggested "new baskets". The sunbeam has huge baskets due to Paul Bassetts tendancy to over dose (I'm hoping he is referring to the grind 😃) How does this fit with you guys ? Sound plausible ?

[deleted]

sounds like a good idea to me.. some people have suggested for me to replace the rancilio baskets also.. suggestion was la marzocco.. for about $12 (www.coffeeparts.com.au) I think it would be worth a try. check the sizing first and make sure you find baskets that are compatible with the 6900!

Honest_Gaza

[quote]

RonH

paulie 338 wrote sounds like a good idea to me.. some people have suggested for me to replace the rancilio baskets also.. suggestion was la marzocco.. for about $12 (www.coffeeparts.com.au) I think it would be worth a try. Definitely worth a try - particularly if you have a grinder like the lux which has significant steps between settings. On my Lux one setting seemed too coarse the next one down too fine - I bought a LM double and now the coarse setting is just about perfect with the extra coffee you can pack in - nominal size of the LM is about 16 gms. BTW I bought my double basket from the La Marzocco distributors Allpress at Roseberry for just under $8. With regard to the Sunbeam basket size - why not just use the 20 gm single as a double? Reagrds Ron

Honest_Gaza

[quote author=RonH With regard to the Sunbeam basket size - why not just use the 20 gm single as a double? Reagrds Ron[/quote] Ron, most of my coffees are made in singles, but you're right in the case of multiple cups....then the Sunbeam "single" basket would probably do nicely.

askthecoffeeguy

This thread is a little old, I know, but I've revised it due to the lasting relevance of the topic, and I'd be interested to know what others think about rind / tamp etc. The thing I'm finding at present is that, whilst having an espresso machine that you're happy with, that's capable of handling the pressure of you're work environment, having a quality grinder with micrometrical adjustment is equally important, to get the finesse of the grind 'just right!' We've been experimenting with a number of grinders both new and old at my work recently, before deciding to invest in a Compak K10 Silencio, which, I believe, represents excellent value for money, as well as allowing minute adjustment to the grind. I haven't used the machine as yet, as its been uni holidays for the last few weeks, but I look forward to putting the machine through its paces on monday and seeing how it goes! Our old grinder, a La Chimbali Magnum, did a wonderful job of keeping up with the pace when it was busy, but you just can't get the same minute adjustment of the grind with one of these machines! So I'llput the new grinder through its paces on Monday. and I'm already looking forward to my first espresso of the day! So make sure you tune in then to see how it goes! Cheers, Pat

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