Roman Espresso Standards

ristretto

I have just returned from Europe and spent a good deal of time in Rome enjoying amongst other things the food and coffee.

My observations of the average Italian espresso is that it is just as poorly made, in many cases, as any cafe in Australia. For example dirty equipment, vastly different skill sets of Baristas and at times a very casual attititude to consistency. This shocked me because in the land of the espresso I expected at least the basics of hand tamping, consistent extractions and clean equipment to be present.

Now the for the positives. Stand-up espresso is brilliant, fast and very fresh. It is only seconds from the time the coffee is finished to the time you have it to drink. Also you can be in and out in less than 5 minutes after having enjoyed a coffee made to the right temperature and a nice pastry.

When the Italians brought so many good things to Australia, why do we not have stand-up espresso bars everywhere?

Ristretto 8)

lars

Actually I'm not surprised to hear you say that, Ristretto.

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I am 40 and just returned from europe and america having living in italy for 2 years, spain for 1 year and france for one year. america for 4 months. I also travelled to most european cities. espresso in italy, average to good. depends like here to lots of variables. but on a par with aussie. ie some terrible places and some very good. But I agree with the other post here, often a bit rough and dirty equipment. Many had no water filters. NONE I asked and looked myself. we do have stand up cafes but they are not advertised as that...they dont work here I feel in that way....... you can have a coffee at many cafes here standing up but pay the same as sitting. many women I worked and travelled with hated the custom in italy, smoking men mainly, often being sleezy. they always wanted to sit or not rush their coffee and italian women rarely have coffee this way... France, well you would think great coffee and great pasties. No, on the whole aussie does it better. some very very crap espresso in many paris cafes at 4 euro a pop. And very very below average pastries. America, well pretty much just getting into espresso despite what people may think. I lived in new york for 2 months last year, and 2 months in LA. If you find a espresso machine its okay. But they think starbucks is great. Not your coffeegeeks, but average americans. Most suburban cafes still only have drip coffee. and think a capp in a 1 litre mikshake container is okay. In LA its still very normal to go to many many places for dinner or coffee and have no machine. Dripulaters rule, but changing. The weird thing is many americans seemed to think they have the best coffee in the world. Not all so not starting a slanging match. But seeing as only 6 percent of Americans have a passport compared to 40 percent aussie I think they should get out more. By far the standout was spain. Barcelona especially was excellent. Most bars or cafes were fantastic. And dedicated coffee houses really great, great snacks and pastries as well and reaonably priced. Fresh ground coffee, big 4 group machines, I actually bought a grinder home from there. About a half the price of here. I was sad to leave due to finding some great coffee people who really took pride in their work roasting etc. Spain had some average places like here but you had the best chance of all countries of finding a good coffee by walking in the door and being pretty confident it would be a least good to great. I classed its quality and consistancy way above australia. The freeways of spain all had petrol stations with 4 group machines with great coffee also. Amazing. cross the border to france (Page) and the same petrol stations had nescafe vending machines. Good coffee but instant powder milk inside. I was travelling the same roads in 1996 in france and they had people on 4 group machines so I guess profit has taken over. Im sure people will disagree with my findings, and I know there are exceptions in every country but agree Rome was average, (food in rome average also) and spain was the star performer by a long shot. Im in melbourne and there are a few stand up espresso bars who will serve you as quick as any cafe in italy with a better coffee. they do well too, but same price as sit down. It was nice to get home anyway to my plumbed in machine and go buy some roasted local beans. It was nice to leave the Pod craze taking over Paris. Thats nearly all the main shops are selling in Paris now. PODS> nescafe pods. I was horrified as they were pitching them as superior more consistant machines. Worse, the french were taking to them in a big way. One store in a very upmarket area was selling just pods refills, in flavours, and there was a line to get served. The poor french have a virus im afraid. cheers the traveller

john_2

Thanks for the Travel notes. I can understand the US bit, but am disappointed re the others especially the French. Between 1978 and 1985 I spent a lot of time in the US and France. Had an interest in Cafe and French style bakery in New York. The US espresso coffee in those days was limited. The main place to find decent espresso coffee was in the better Italian restaurants. On the French side, I lived in Paris for about two years during this time abroad. However, in those days the espresso coffee was excellent. Not to mention the pastries etc. I lived in the 3rd Arondisement and we had some fantastic places to choose from. In Paris, I ate out regularly and can only remember having had 1 bad meal in that time. Boy times have changed. JD

Avicenna

Dear All, I would like to share my point of view with you - as being European - and having travelled a lot abroad. It is very much depending where you go to in Italy, if you are looking over the coffee quality. If you consider an over all quality, I disagree to say Italy would be so bad. It is understood that with the eyes of an expert (or coffee-lover) lots of caf

[deleted]

Just reading this at work. More or less agree with previous 2 posts. I travel europe reguarly. Although, my perception of coffee is from an expresso machine, no perculators, or stove tops etc. they dont count. so when you say coffee, if it sells beans and has a machine. But saying that, italy average, germany below average france average and getting worse. (yes pods in their stores everywhere) dont know re portugal and spain above average. Amazed at a few out of the way places there made me really excellent coffee out of very impressive machines, with lovely fresh roasted beans. all the above places have good pockets but you have to find them, whereas spain was pretty good anywhere. their coffee houses were truly great. Italy of course has some great pockets, but also some overated places, stand up espresso served just luke warm, for 2 euro was a waste. Temp is debatable but often was too cold too enjoy. As for rome etc. Terrible, overpriced dish water is often the case. Pizza, forget it. They claim pizza as their own but isnt really from italy, and sadly other countries kill it. including australia. America, drip filter still rules or starbucks so not worth mentioning really, just watch friends etc, they drink 1 litre coffees in paper cups. a joke really. have to disagree with first post too, their are stand up bars in australia, quite a few scattered around, but usually a stool is there. why stand, but anyway all little bars will let you stand, order a quick espresso and go in 2 minutes. And thank god we dont have to put up with the smoking ala europe. french and italians especially all smoking in stand up bars, very very off puttting and wouldnt stand near them. we have a far better cleaner system. good for coffee not espresso, its both or nothing. cheers all