Is Melbourne espresso crap?

FreshCoffee2

Dear Over Extracted, no, there has been no change of heart. A definitive, black and white generalisation was made some time back that it is the coffee companies fault where cafes make a lousy coffee. I stand by the firm belief that anyone that wants to be in business whether it be a cafe or any other business has the responsibility (to their clients as well as to themselves if tbey want to stay in business) to make sure they know what they're doing. This is not the responsibility of their suppliers, although a responsible supplier will help as much as possible especially if he/she is invited to help. So, there are degreees of grey in every situation (and understanding that is why smaller companies like mine are still in business).

Maico

Dear Over extracted & fresh coffee, You guys are obviosly very passionate about your espresso which is fantastic, and is undoubtly a step closer to creating better espresso outlets. In your previous messages to each other you both raised some very valid points and since it was pointed out to me it is a PUBLIC FORUM, I thought I would add my own thoughts again. I am a barista, I like to think one who is passionate about espresso in every way. I also work for a large coffee company and represent with pride their street espresso brands. I personally know I do all that I can to look after my premium accounts, because in the end they represent me. I almost always have an espresso when I see them, and I have no hesitations in telling them if it's good or not. Although unfortunately I cannot control every single account's espresso quality, but we try. It simply comes down to this. Espresso is about being Passionate, knowlegable and skillful. Once you learn the basics, it's not hard. Unfortunately, in my experience's training people, you either get espresso or you don't! So, what we are seeing out there in cafe's are more money opportunists who don't get espresso and no matter what we do, the never will and we can't be there to oversee them 24 / 7. In the end they do harm to their image and the brand they of coffee they use. This where, coffee companies like the one I work for are taking the next positive step - Brand criterias. Where potentential or existing cafes are given a criteria rating and if they don't meet it, we simply don't install the account or we pull our brand out. Lastly in Melbourne, there are some great local blends, but unfortunately, most of the cafe owners there don't care about quality, all they want is the cheapest price and freebies. There are some blends that sell for $13 a kilo and they give the cafe's the earth. That is what is killing or slowing down the quality of espresso in Melbourne - GREED of the cafe owners and the disrespectful coffee companies that have no passion for coffee. Ciao Maico

FreshCoffee2

Dear Maico, I think then, we are all in agreement. Thankyou.

over_extracted

Dear maico thanks for you fine thoughts I hear that you are very good at what you do, keep it up. 😛 OE

triclops

Its seems a long time since there was any action on this forum, but? obiviously the crema thing is Sydney orientated so lets start with Melbourne Coffee, perhaps to many old italian roasters saying this is the shit, which is 3 weeks old with 20 % robusta. To many cafe owners saying I want umbrellas and not knowing what good coffee actually tastes like! Probably pretty much the same as Sydney. Sure I can name 10 places in both cities that get it right most of the time but the 95% of all cafes are crap. Why ? coffee is difficult 1. coffee machines, most designed not to make good coffee. 2. Most coffee is cost based. 3. Operators don't know what they are doing. 4. People get conditioned to drink crap. Sydney drinks more blacks than Melbourne the coffee is generally milder. Melbourne has been brought up on strong, (not good) coffee. Times are a changing, Merlo from brisbane, Allpress & Supreme from NZ, and other smaller roasters are starting with good coffee as a base and taking it from there. triclops

john_2

Dear all I am not sure as to why Melbourne was singled out for "CRAP COFFEE".

FreshCoffee2

Here here. Fresh Coffee

admin

Hi guys - if you'd bothered to read the message that started off this thread :o, you'd have seen that the post was on behalf of a Melbourne reader (who actually was commenting on one of the cafes that had been voted as one of the top 5 in Melbourne). He went on to say: 'I purchase my espresso there every day, but I must say that I am able to produce an espresso from my domestic machine that would be much better than 98% of Melbourne coffees...' so we posted it, to see if this was the general consensus and as it happened, a number of fairly knowledgable espresso people have written in, many from Melbourne, to say that the originator of this comment has a pretty good point. Admin 😉

john_2

Admin ;D ;D ;D With regard to your last comment.

[deleted]

Hi, just a quick note for this forum. I am the Melbourne coffee critic that wrote the article exclaiming that Melbourne's coffee is poor. I still believe that. The guidelines for a good espresso are: 25-30 sec pour for a 30ml shot, at 9 bar pressure. Now, thats only a rule of thumb, but if you can achieve that you will get a good espresso (subject to bleeding the grouphead if its been sitting idle for more than 10mins, as the heat exchanger in the boiler tends to overheat the grouphead, because the boiler water is circulated through the group head to keep it at the right temperature). Try one other thing, put a teaspoon of sugar on the crema of the espresso. It should all float on the crema, and not sink and dissapear until you stir it in. Thats all i ask. Most Melbourne caffes (and Syndey caffes, having been to sydney twice in the last month for bussiness, I have tasted poor coffee there too). The espresso must not only look good with a great thick rich brown red crema, but it must have a mouth feel that is light and creamy. Thats the test. its not hard to learn how to make a breat espresso, but it just takes a little attention, and at $3 a shot, i'll be sending bad espresso back to the barista from now on. Cheers TEXT

john_2

007 I think it is about time more persons took your stand. "If the coffee is crap then send it back!!!" How else is the Barista (??) going to learn? If you go to a restaurant and ask for a rare steak and it comes out charred. What do you do. Why should it be any different for coffee. I have no probs saying to cafes that I do not think their coffee is up to scratch. I am over the 10 second pour, from a dirty machine. I am with you all the way 007 (James) John

[deleted]

Thanks John. excuse my spelling mistakes in my previous comments, it should read "put a teaspoon of sugar onto the espresso crema, and it should not sink through". My concern is that the caffe I am referring specifically about is one of the top 5 caffe's in Melbourne according to this site. mmmmmmmmm.........scary really, especially when they write that the coffee is excellent day in and out. I know as a fact, the barista in that caffe changes every day, as the waitressing staff take turns to make the coffee. Some consumers have no idea. Cheers JB007

[deleted]

Hi Ashley at Crema Magazine.......how are you? Can you suggest to your people that when they run a spell check, they read what they check. I have written 2 posts to this site (see above, and thought that it had made spelling msitakes, then after the second time I realised that your spell checker is replacing "teaspoon" with the word "teasthing'. The post does not makes sense because of this. Please read the article first! Cheers JB007

john_2

James ol boy I have mixed feelings about some of the nominated cafes.

lars

i'm surprised you guys don't put your money where your mouth is - isn't there a request to vote for your top 5 cafes? -L

mimmo124

Do you people believe that it is big concern when the main barista or EMO goes on a break that an equally qualified or more importantly experienced coffee maker jumps behind the machine. The S*%t that is served up by some waitstaff that they believe is good is not acceptable. The main people with an interest in the running of their businesses should make a not of this when rostering staff. I find it unacceptable that at certain times of the day the coffee is good and at many times it is shocking. It cant be that hard to teach a few main staff members the basics behind a good coffee can it. Well i guess it can if there is no one around to teach them in the first place 🙁 Thats my three cents mimmo

Spjarli_Coffee

What a load of tripe! Geez, some of you can waffle on. Answer the bloody question. In my opinion, and that's all it can be, the answer is No. Is every espresso in Melbourne great. No. Ditto for other cities. The way some of you crap on - "I'm a barista, you're a super barista, I have this qualification, my dad's bigger than your dad, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah." Grow up! It's almost as though using the magical word 'barista' is a licence to have your hand on it in public and think it's cool. It's not, it's such a wank. Barista? Bah humbug. And that's my 2 cents worth. Now, can we talk about COFFEE?

admin

Hi Spjarli - great to have someone new from Melbourne on the forum. Actually, the thread on Melbourne coffee started as the result of a local coffee drinker who was commenting on a well-known Melbourne cafe: "I purchase my espresso there every day, only because it is the only drinkable espresso in the street, but i must say, that i am able to produce an espresso from my domestic machine that would be much better that 98% of all Melbourne caffes. They under extract the coffee"... He goes on to say:

Spjarli_Coffee

Hi Admin and thanks for your response, I

admin

Hi Spjarli - no problem...FYI we have members from Qld, SA, WA as well as Vic & NSW; while one of the most prolific forum members is from Canberra. You have a point about the title of the post 'Australian' vs 'Melbourne' coffee, but in fact, it was partly to get more input from VIC coffee lovers that phrased the post as we did. The consensus seemed to be (in as much that you can generalise) that milk-based coffes in Melbourne were fine - it was with short blacks that there seemed to be a question. FYI, the Melbourne writer whose e-mail started the post was referring to Wall 280, where I'd always had good coffees (but they were all milk-based). Ciao -Admin

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