"SORTING THE MEN FROM THE BOYS?"

FreshCoffee2

This morning we've had to suffer yet another image building newspaper article about a "barista" competition. It described how contestants were given 12 minutes to come up with 12 espresso based drinks.

Certainly the time given seems to suggest that contestants were given espresso machines and grinders to operate with that were in good condition and did not require any adjustment. Presumably then, only their skill at robotically brewing (quickly) the end product was adjudicated. In which case I wonder how the contestants are tested to see if they actually possess the background skill, knowledge and understanding required to manage all facets of the espresso brewing system in order to produce the starting "base liquor" for the drinks (the espresso)? In the real world, a lack of understanding at that point ruins whatever comes next.

In the real world, equipment goes out of adjustment or is deliberately placed out of adjustment (sabotaged) by unskilled labour

Supertechnico

May the Barista show roll on! Or slide down hill! Let's face it. In any cafe now a banna can walk through the door and call them selves a Barista now days. Sure they can knock out a drinkable espresso based coffee, and perhaps wow the owner with their pretty pattern making skills (which the coffee drinker doesn't really give a stuf about). As far as I know Barista was an Italian word. In Italy a Barista knows how to make a wide variety coffee and alcohol based beverages and amongst other things is required to wait on tables and take food orders. I would like to see a Barista event where the contestant is required to(like you've illustrated Fresh)not only understands basic mechanics of the coffee equipment, but has to take a variety or orders from judges and serve them in a specified time. Maybe we could sort the men from the boys by throwing a few stones into the grinder and clogging up steam arms with milk. Perhaps the contestant should be required to demonstrate their cleaning prowess also. I think we use the Barista term here a bit too librally, Which for people who have no better skills than making coffee and standing behind an espresso machine while the Cafe owner wonders why they were sucked in, is totally unjustified. So the Coffee maker competitions we have now are nothing more than a coffee show. But at least they keep the public interested in the magic beverage we all profit from. Super :-*

Gus

Barista comps are nothing more than a big ego get together it does nothing to the industry just creates more super egos... 😛

FreshCoffee2

Super, yup, your comment about comps reminds me of barman comps. The showman with flair who can toss things in the air and catch them again right way up wins the comp, but does he know anything about the postmixes etc. Good show. I guess pouring beers can be done without knowing how to tap the keg properly, but I am afraid that "consistently" producing a decent espresso depends on having the skills to manage the espresso making equipment properly....we'll have no more of this kind of mentality where you telephone the supplier with the old "get out here and adjust YOUR grinder". If they cant adjust the grinder, they better go back to waiting tables. Gus, on the contrary I think they DO do a lot TO (harm) the industry...super egos are reponsible for the "dont talk to me about coffee, I KNOW coffee" attitude which is doing its level best to fragment and destroy the industry at the moment. It's the "tail wagging the dog" syndrome, where many of those who dont know much are somehow driving the direction of the industry, to I know not where... Fresh Coffee. PS apologies to all in the barman industry incase my comments have inadvertently offended.

john_2

I did not read the article. However, I think you have made a few interesting points. Let the challenge begin. Why not set a date for the prelims and the final. ;D

Supertechnico

I Have a good idea to replace coffee making competitions. 😉 How about the cafe owner place an add their local papers advertising the mean feats of their coffee maker. That way there could be some real benefit for all the coffee industry...yeah! Imagine this... the coffee maker would really be able to show their skills in making various coffees quickly and perfectly. They could also wait tables and take food orders. The cafe owner would really be proud of their investment with all the interest and the coffee supplier would be really happy that their coffee customer was doing something off their own bat to promote coffee sales. No bells and whistles but real value adding! Super 😃

FreshCoffee2

Super, one slight problem...one of the reasons why no one can make the same cup of coffee even within the one "cafe" is becuase they allow too many untrained shop assistants to use the machine...these ARE the people that wait tables and do other stuff, and they are usually juniors. At this stage of development in the industry I would prefer "cafe's" DONT let all and sundry use the machine. The other problem is that the word "cafe" is used for all and sundry eateries, where mostly, the espresso machine is just something in the corner they resent having to buy as an add on to the foods / meals they serve. In these places all staff use the machine...badly. What cafe? Perhaps we should go back to the more descriptive term..."milk bar"! Fresh Coffee. PS my son has an after school job in a franchised eatery cum "cafe???"...The people that are allowed to use the machine wear shirts with the word "barista" embroidered on. Taking themselves very seriously!

askthecoffeeguy

Here's for revising an old topic - and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone jumps on the idea: Why not have a barista competition for users of domestic espresso machines? This could both draw attention to the plight of the home barista, and raise skill levels and general awareness also. Pat

nzroaster

Firstly, I think barista comps are a good idea. Because it gives baristas something to work towards. If you have ever competed you often find that the first comp teaches you where the bar is set. You then aspire to get there, whether you compete again or not. Some baristas that compete pride themselves on the fact that they know all their customers names and orders, some pride themselves on achievements, some just use the result as credibility. Sadly it does create egos. I have been fortunate enough to meet many competing baristas, many of the top guns in Australia, NZ, and abroad. Some have egos, some do not. Some just have a great routine, and others are genuinly knowledgable. There are all sorts. I've had 2 of the top 10 baristas in the world make contrasting comments to me on the same coffee, on the same day(by complete chance, but talk about pressure).It was one of my blends but we were just chatting and they had no idea what my level of knowledge or experience was. It was obvious very quickly which one knew their stuff and which one must have had a great routine. The comps, most of them, are doing good things for the industry, but that is not to say that they are not being abused or are the be all and end all of barista quality.

melbournecoffeeguy

"BARISTA" A term used far too often. Barista Competition = Wanker Fest You guys have made some excellent points I believe that any "Barista" should be able to set and adjust their equipment and make 10 coffees in 5 minutes during their comps as for art 😡 go and grab a paintbrush and do some painting at home concentrate on taste.

sketchy

"BARISTA" as for art 😡 go and grab a paintbrush and do some painting at home concentrate on taste.

Latte art is for presentation purposes which most customers like, when you get your coffee you look then smell then taste, so with the art the coffee looks good and people know that you at least know how to make a latte.

askthecoffeeguy

I agree. In this day and age it is not enough to merely dish up an ok looking coffee. Latte art should be entirely optional, but presentation is a must. At least it shows that the barista in question is not rushed, because good coffee, like good presentation takes time to make. Cheers, P

nzroaster

Hey, I agree that taste is paramount and still should be the number 1 priority when making a coffee. But don't knock latte art. Freepouring not only looks great but it creates that perfect formula on top of the coffee(milk in middle with crema around the entire outside of the cup). It is not hard to freepour latte art, so if you can, why not?

MrNang

.... I'm a little intriqued to learn how many of you have actually competed in a barista competition. I have, infact I'm running this years VBC so I consider myself at least remotely qualified to comment on this thread. Myth 1: Grinders are preset As you would be aware, grinding adjustments are required with changes in the environment (temperature, humidity, etc etc.). Competitors are required to setup their grinder (from scratch) during the 15mins preparation time before their presentation. Myth 2 Latte Art serves no purpose and everyone does it in competitions. No marks are specifically allocated for patterns / design in the milk - overall presentation is, markes are actually lost if a ring of crema is not present around the rim of the cup. Myth 3 Barista competitions are wanker fests that do a lot to harm the industry Having participated in numerous barista and latte art competitions, I have found that they are a great way to learn about coffee preparation, & meet pioneers in the industry. They push new frontiers and create focused learning environments. Myth 4...many of those who dont know much are somehow driving the direction of the industry, to I know not where... Who for instance? Justin Metcalf - a respected world barista judge who is assisting me to run the VBC. In this years comp we have representation from many of the pioneering artisan roasters - mark from st ali, carleen from icoco etc.. We have a vision and objectives set for the outcomes we wish to reach from the competition which include education, awareness, fostering a commmunity around specialty coffee etc. Myth 5: Only the machine operators skill at robotically brewing (quickly) the end product was adjudicated. Are you even remotely aware of the WBC judging criteria? Read this for the technical rules: http://www.worldbaristachampionship.com/pdf/2007_WBC_Technical_Score_Sheet.pdf And this for the sensory rules: http://www.worldbaristachampionship.com/pdf/2007_WBC_Sensory_Score_Sheet.pdf Baristas must communicate and demonstrate their understanding, skill, and knowledge and understanding required to manage all facets for preparing the espresso. Myth 6: baristas are allowed to proceed to the level of coffee art without being tested on the

nzroaster

Go Nathan Go!!!! All the things I would have said if I could have laid it out that logically.

askthecoffeeguy

what he said 😃

roastman

Mr Nang I could not have put it better well done I salute you 8-) the barista guild ;D ;D

FreshCoffee2

I'm glad that a topic written 2.5 years ago can still pull a good response. One of them in particular is a very well written, articulate and considered reply. It remains nevertheless flawed however when taken in the context of the day to day real world business of coffee. I'm well aware of the benefits of barista competitions in helping to grow the overall coffee or espresso market, and therefore the importance of such spectacles. But that is not what this topic was intended to be about. The fact remains that the single most common problem for coffee bean suppliers be they good or bad, big or small, or be they purveyors of good quality and service or not, IS people that (mis)appropriate the title of "barista" for themselves, but have no idea regarding the most basic yet most important principles in the pursuit of excellence in espresso. The easiest example that comes to mind is.....the ability to adjust a grinder.....which is when all's said and done, the number one cause of wasted time and money in service callouts by the service industry to regular cafes. This is the real world, not the rarified atmosphere of showmanship which is the domain of barista competitions. Many who would aspire to reach an elite level in professional espresso machine management or in world class barista competitions could do well to start out with something like the very basic competition outlined in the original post to this topic where some of the comments you found laughable, actually trip up many so called "baristas" every single day in the business of coffee. And yes my company would donate the use of espresso brewing equipment for such a competition within my own local area. In fact, my Company recently contracted to donate one of its signature spec. Diadema 2 group Volumetric espresso coffee machines to an up coming accredited training centre. We all have a very real vested interest in proper training and somewhere in all the above discussion lies a happy medium. Regardz, FC.

askthecoffeeguy

Hi FC, Nice to see you contributing again to the forum, it's been awhile. As a cafe owner myself and as a participator in the up and coming VBC I can definitely say that, whilst I may not be learning a hell of a lot in terms of what's on offer, I do find though, that the whole competition makes me centre my judgement about the desired end result, and that is the quality of each and every individual espresso extraction. Which in turn has meant a shake up of things a bit in my work, including the purchase of new equipment, an increased emphasis on staff training, a shake up of the roster, and a re-focusing on the important aspects of my business, i.e. making coffee for a living Some aspects of the competition are not to my liking at all, such as the amount of time and effort needed to put into sourcing materials, not to mention training, and I for one will definitely not be putting as much effort in as some of my fellow contestants due to the fact that I do run my own business, and as a family man as well, there is no way I can afford the time and effort involved to get the supposed desired end result. That doesn't mean that I wont be making the effort, though, and I have already been working closely with my roster to produce my own blend for the competition, which I am very happy with. And regardless of whether I come first or last I can say that the positive reemphasis around quality extraction has been enormously beneficial to me personally, and has helped me to re-shape my outlook toward my business. And whilst I agree, if you can't adjust a grinder or come to terms with simple maintenance issues when it comes to your machine, then you shouldn't call yourself a barista. Any avenue, however, including the barista comp, which has among it's stated aims the desire to improve barista knowledge and skills in such a way that that these skills are transferable to the workforce, is worthy of merit in my humble opinion, despite the admittedly enormous hype and level of pretence which seems to come with the territory. Also, many baristi performing at a certain level are often stuck behind the machine for 12hrs a day. So its good to meet some fellow colleagues and to realise that maybe we are part way normal after all! Pat

MrNang

I'm well aware of the benefits of barista competitions in helping to grow the overall coffee or espresso market, and therefore the importance of such spectacles. But that is not what this topic was intended to be about. The fact remains that the single most common problem for coffee bean suppliers be they good or bad, big or small, or be they purveyors of good quality and service or not, IS people that (mis)appropriate the title of "barista" for themselves, but have no idea regarding the most basic yet most important principles in the pursuit of excellence in espresso. The easiest example that comes to mind is.....the ability to adjust a grinder.....which is when all's said and done, the number one cause of wasted time and money in service callouts by the service industry to regular cafes. This is the real world, not the rarified atmosphere of showmanship which is the domain of barista competitions. Many who would aspire to reach an elite level in professional espresso machine management or in world class barista competitions could do well to start out with something like the very basic competition outlined in the original post to this topic where some of the comments you found laughable, actually trip up many so called "baristas" every single day in the business of coffee. And yes my company would donate the use of espresso brewing equipment for such a competition within my own local area. In fact, my Company recently contracted to donate one of its signature spec. Diadema 2 group Volumetric espresso coffee machines to an up coming accredited training centre. We all have a very real vested interest in proper training and somewhere in all the above discussion lies a happy medium. Regardz, FC.

Hi FC, Thanks for your reply. I always like to consider the motivations behind writing threads in public forums - mine is to support a competition that I believe contributes favourably (despite the possible existence of flaws) to the progression of coffee production, its preparation and appreciation. To this regard I am sure that we share similar ideals. I too share concerns about appointing the title "barista" to anyone that serves behind a coffee machine - encouragingly there have been some moves to provide accreditations for coffee makers to prove their skill in accordance with agreed criteria. I believe this initiative is on the right track to improveing the general abilities of coffee makers and assisting in the identification of coffee making "professionals". My confusion arises with your line of reasoning between participation in competitions and the lack of knowledge of changing a grinder. The objective of the competition is to discern the best barista in accordance with a given set of criteria which includes grinder adjustment. Take any barista champion from a WBC accredited event and see if they can change the grind to achieve a desirable rate of extraction... I'm not usually a gambling man, but I'd be willing to bet you will find they do have a sound knowledge of grinder operation. The path to reaching an elite level in professional espresso machine management or in world class barista competitions may well be supported by the competitions you mentioned (although some additional consideration to the practicality of holding such an event might be required), but also by reading books and sharing ideas with other enthusiasts on industry forums, attending training courses, AND by preparing for and participating in WBC sanctioned barista competitions. Our views differ slightly when it comes to sweeping generalisations about the relevance of competitions to the real world and those that compete. From my perspective, competitions serve to place a stick in the sand from which we may compare our level of competence with others. The format of these competitions continue to evolve and the rules are changed with progressions of understanding in the field. Anecdotaly I also believe that the standard of coffee makers participating in barista competitions is also increasing as is the number (of competitiors). In the "real world" everyone is human, noone is perfect, and any endeavour made by a person toward their personal development and the development of the associated community and or profession should be supported (even if they havent yet rightfully justified themselves the title of barista whilst competiting in a competition). IMHO, I think barista compeitions conducted in accordance criteria that promote current agreed best practice play an important role in improving the skill of coffee makers in the industry. Thank you sincerely for your offer of support for the supply of espresso brewing equipment - this is the type of constructive contribution that will bring advances to our industry. Regards, n.