Londinium I Lever Espresso Machine

ash

Hi Reiss, I'm yet another who is following the development of this machine with keen interest. When I was looking for my ideal home lever machine a couple of years ago, what you're buliding with the Londinium I now, was what I was after then :coffee2:  Better late than never  ;D With regards to the steam wand, I don't care what side its on, as long as it has one. Moveable or not isn't a great concern either. As a user of a Ponte Vecchio Lusso, I can say that you get used to a fixed arm quite quickly. My greatest wish is that I can get a factory supplied naked portafilter and some wooden handles for the machine, either as part of the initial purchase or at some stage after.

lespresso

granted.

UNM

I think a pressure relief valve on the group would be good. When I stuff up and choke the machine, I want to ditch the failed puck and pull another asap. Understood you want to minimise complexity so why not do away with steam and hot water valves to compensate.  Some of us drink coffee, not coffee flavoured milk or girlie man long blacks :stir

Lacehim

on 1346810622:

I think a pressure relief valve on the group would be good. When I stuff up and choke the machine, I want to ditch the failed puck and pull another asap.

It's not required UNM.  The pressure disapates quickly enough, and you can ease the group handle off without an explosion.  At least that's my experience on the Lusso.  I haven't ever wanted for this feature on a lever and I've been using the lusso for well over a year now.

lespresso

UNM don't worry, I've thought about it. (your 2nd suggestion, not the first) reiss.

Paolo5

Not having a steam and water tap would appeal to me....

derrilex

on 1346810875:

It's not required UNM.  The pressure disapates quickly enough, and you can ease the group handle off without an explosion.  At least that's my experience on the Lusso.  I haven't ever wanted for this feature on a lever and I've been using the lusso for well over a year now.

Where does the pressure go Lacehim ?

Lwowiak

Watch this video. At 34 seconds in, the barista slightly lowers the lever, and lets it go, to release the pressure. You can then remove the group handle.

Lacehim

on 1346813145:

Where does the pressure go Lacehim ?

Same place all the other pressure went.  Though the coffee puck.  ^-^  It's why you get a drip after the pour has finished with a lever, it's the last of the low pressure water being pushed though.  I always slid a cup under the group after I've finished.  Even on a choked pour the lever will eventually come up, but it might be some time. You can also do what Lwowiak said above.

derrilex

Cool Lwowiak. So If you get a full on choke with the Lusso Lacehim how do you deal with it ?

Lacehim

on 1346823716:

So If you get a full on choke with the Lusso Lacehim how do you deal with it ?

Just leave it to do it's thing (aka go for a smoke, have a cuppa etc  :rofl: ), it will just take a bit longer.  Serve it up and see what your guest think about your 2 minute extraction.   I've only ever done it a few times with the lusso.  The lusso seems to like a finer grind anyway I think.  I usually find my "guess" at the correct grind is too quick, and grind a tad finer for the next shot. I did read somewhere that someone put there lever handle on upside down when changing the seals on the lusso.  Instead of clamping it again to fix it, he just pulled a shot that choked the machine, and quickly took the lever off and turned it upside down.  Risky move, but it worked for him! The beauty of the lusso is if you fluff the first shot, you can change your grind and run another one while you wait.  The 2 group layout has its benefits!

derrilex

Poor little Lusso :D

Paolo5

Hi Reiss, I just read a few interesting comments on HB on the Londinium 1 thread that is happening there. Quite different to this one. I noticed that under your listed equipment that you have "L1". Does this mean that you are using the prototype on a daily basis? If so, It would be good to hear comments on your results with this new machine (keeping in perspective, of course, that it is your baby...and we all are quite partial to our own babies). 

Paolo5

Reiss...can you also comment on how you went about "tuning" the group to suit the Londinium 1 application. Many thanks, Paolo

Paolo5

For the electrical engineers amongst us....is there such a device available (step-down transformer???) that would enable a 2800W machine to run on 10amp power when that was all that was available...but when 15amp power is available you could remove the device and plug into the 15amp power?

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1346883199:

For the electrical engineers amongst us....is there such a device available (step-down transformer???) that would enable a 2800W machine to run on 10amp power when that was all that was available...but when 15amp power is available you could remove the device and plug into the 15amp power?

In this particular case you woud be looking to go to a step up transformer to meet the demand of the element KK

Paolo5

Thanks, KK. Would this be do-able /practical/expensive?

conikal

on 1346883199:

....is there such a device available (step-down transformer???) that would enable a 2800W machine to run on 10amp power when that was all that was available...but when 15amp power is available you could remove the device and plug into the 15amp power?

NO ! .. it cannot be done.   in order to supply 2800 W to the element, you have to draw 2800 W from the supply. On 240v that means 12A no way around it. Anything you install between the supply and the element to limit the amp draw to <10A , can only reduce the power at the element. for Example :-.. a large 4 ohm power resistor in series with the element would restrict the amp draw to 10A, BUT.. that 2800 W element would effectively only then be supplying 2000 W  !  So you are worse off than using the 2400 W element. As reiss said, 2400 W is more than adequate. In reality, the less paranoid of us would just plug it in and not worry about the extra couple of amps !! ??? ::) .. but you didnt hear me say that . !

derrilex

10 amp and 15 amp circuits use the same wiring anyway. I'd get your sparky to check the circuit and if its all good whack a 15 amp gpo in to replace the 10 amp and up the size of the breaker to suit.

Koffee_Kosmo

I had a 15 amp cuiciut put in especially for my Bezzera BZ40 Electrician and parts cost $300 Having said that if your home has a redundant Air Conditioner circuit? that would most likely be 15 amp, and you could use it / redirect it for use with a high draw device KK

Ol Grumpy

Derrilex is spot on, Im a builder, not a sparky but ive done this often enough to explain what they're looking for... The wiring is identical @ 2.5 mm x 3 core. The difference is all in the Earth pin. 15 amp is larger pin. You still should have an electrician do the install because they will check and limit the total draw on the circuit. Ie you don't want to have the fridge, freezer, kettle and microwave and Boiler all on the same circuit or you will start blowin fuses, etc. It might beam suggested to install a dedicated circuit but that's worst case. I've seen plenty of people that have a 10 amp male plug to 15 amp female plug to circumvent the sparky, but I don't recommend this because of what I mentioned above. (every caravaner carries at least one of these adapters) As long as the total draw on the circuit is not too great it should be perfectly fine to just plug and play, as suggested. Either way, it's nothing to get your knickers in a knot over. OG Oh yeah, btw- even with the 2400 watt model- you still need to be mindful of the total draw on the circuit... At cooking time when you've got the microwave, kettle, frypan, whatever all turned on it's likely you wii start blowin fuses if they all come on together... So even with the 2400 watt model you still need to consider total circuit draw carefully to avoid overloading the circuit :-) I see no appreciable reason not to just get the 2800 watt model and enjoy its benefits.

derrilex

Cheat leads and filing of the earth pin are all par for the course  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:  Test and tag ? what's that. Those leads stay well hidden from the tag man :D Not so much of a issue these days with inverter welders for site work but previously you would be flat out finding a mobile welder without a ute full of cheat leads. I had a dedicated 15 A cct run into the workshop with 2 gpo's for my welders. They obviously have there own breaker/rcd combo but it was pretty cheap. Also, having a 15 amp cct lets you go mad with a roaster too  :thumb:

Paolo5

Thanks, guys... for your inputs on the power issue.

derrilex

I've been speaking to a few sparkies regarding off peak power. Turns out you can hard wire your coffee machine off the tarrif 33 hot water circuit (if you have one). It can be wired  to suit a 3600 watt draw ( the biggest hot water system available). Only problem is off peak power is only there 18 hours per day and as its name suggests, may not be there for that heart starter at brekky time. There are other ( just as legal but a bit sneaky) ways to use off peak power too. Do you have a pool by chance ?

lespresso

not sure if i am reading something into the high powered element discussion that isn't there, but please understand that it won't drive your electricity bill up any more than say a 1000W element would what drives the cost is the volume of water you want to heat and how hot a temp you want to hold it at whether you use a small element, which will be on for more of the time, or a large element which is on less, makes little difference to the cost of running the machine what a high powered element does give you is endless steam, and when you have drawn off a cup of hot water, e.g. to make tea/soup/americano-long black the same volume of cold water is pumped into the boiler to replace the water drawn off, so you don't have to wait till xmas for the boiler to get back up to operating pressure again (you will on a machine with a small element).  this is a real benefit.

Paolo5

Not concerned with the relative costs of heating. More about logistics of getting the 2800W element running on a 10amp circuit. Getting a dedicated 15 amp circuit cost me around $300 in a previous house. I don't often use the steam tap or water tap anyway, so think that extra power heater might be total overkill in my situation.

derrilex

$300 is a once only spend and its done for ever then. Cheap insurance for quality, reliable power IMO and in the total scheme of things very cheap considering the cost of machines / grinders / other associated toys.

Lacehim

For me it's the same issue. Running cables in a 2 story house is a nightmare because all the sparkies want to run conduit outside because it's easy!  Looks awful though, and then there is the issue with our island bench where my coffee machine is! Currently the toaster trips the power now and again, and I can't imagine having 2400W element is going to help much.  Power is split between 2 circuits in the house, and my office is on the same line as the kitchen so I'll probably need to buy a UPS for my server too!  8 hour parity checks on reboot are not fun!

on 1347060826:

$300 is a once only spend and its done for ever then. Cheap insurance for quality, reliable power IMO and in the total scheme of things very cheap considering the cost of machines / grinders / other associated toys.

That's fine if you also have space in your powerboard for more circuit breakers.  (3phase power, 21Kw aircon, power, lighting, solar etc fills it up quick)  Mine has one space left!  I'm going to have to get my sparky over for a chat I think.  It doesn't help that when sparkies build a house they tack the exiting cables and drill tiny holes.  You can't even pull though additional cables and I don't want to start ripping out plasterboard!

UNM

my off peak power is there for 8 hours a day. think it is from 11pm to 7am. not much use for coffee machines. IMNSHO, Aussies (and kiwis) should get the 2400 watt version, plug it in and enjoy. KISS Also when upgrade time comes, will be easier to sell a 10 amp machine.

derrilex

on 1347061649:

my off peak power is there for 8 hours a day. think it is from 11pm to 7am. not much use for coffee machines. IMNSHO, Aussies (and kiwis) should get the 2400 watt version, plug it in and enjoy. KISS Also when upgrade time comes, will be easier to sell a 10 amp machine.

Thats tarrif 31 = night rate. Cheaper again that 33 but very limited times.