Upgrading from Nescafe to La Marzocco

System

Well, not quite...

The other day I decided my Krups Novo just couldn't cut the mustard anymore and had to go. Simple, I thought. Check out eBay and see what I could get as a decent replacement. But what to buy? I had heard of a few brands (Gaggia, Saeco, eetc)but really didn't understand what a thermoblock was let alone what it did for the quality of my morning espresso. So, time to research via the web. 4 days later and after checking out crema, wholelattelove, coffeegeek, coffee for connoisseurs (amongst others), I am an expert! Well not quite, but I did learn a thing or 2 about E61 groupsets and god shots!!

SO what have I decided? Well, I am not quite there yet but currently I am leaning towards an Isomac Zaffiro and a Mazzer Mini.

I worked my way through a Gaggia Classic (with the Breville clone of the Gaggia MM which I currently own) to the obligatory Sylvia/Rocky combo. I read so many stories on the importance of the grinder, and tales from people who wished they had not wasted time progressing thru a series of grinders - hence straight to the Mazzer mini.

I mainly drink espresso/ristretto/machiato with the occasional latte/flat white. I don't need to serve a family of 12 so the machine would tend to only be used for the 5/6 shots a day. I would love an ECM Giotto Premium/Diadema Junior/la Scala Butterfly but need to draw the line somewhere and $600 (Mazzer) plus $2500 is a bit more than I could justify. The Isomac Zaffiro sounds a very capable machine (with a question mark on build quality) and I save over $900 on the Giotto/ Diadema models.

SO what do you think of the Isomac Zaffiro/Mazzer mini combo? Am I on the right track? Any alternatives?

I live at Mosman in Sydney. Where can I see these machines?

I welcome your comments

FreshCoffee2

Hello 2Sheds, from your description of where you are at and what you would like to do, you are asking a big question re advice...and let's not forget that anything that I might say with regard to zaffiro and mazzer mini, especially due to my company importing one of the other machines you mentioned but rejected due to higher price than the zaffiro, could look one sided. However, here are the ducks guts as I see them with a view to helping you along. There is never any point in going sideways and in terms of where you are coming from, there are 2 DOMESTIC machines that I think will offer more than what you have: A) Nemox Caffe Fenice and b) Rancilio Miss Silvia. Anything else in the domestic market in my honest opinion, doesnt rate next to these. I especially dont like aluminium thermoblocks in these small machines, and I dont like aluminium boilers in these small machines either, having seen too many of these things corroded and blocked...I personally wouldn't drink the espresso they produce no matter how well (in some peoples opinions) these machines produce coffee. Due to the larger capacity of the Miss Silvia (the boiler is double the size of other domestics), it has great steam capacity for the occasional bit of entertaining. Otherwise in the espresso only department, the two mentioned above will be the same in terms of "capacity" to produce. If you dont entertain much, you have to make a decision as to whether to go further, to a heat exchanger machine where you immediately jump up to your $1600.00ish price bracket and above. I personally cant really see the point in going for a heat exchanger machine that only has a boiler capacity of 0.7 litre. The main reasons in this country (where most people drink espresso drowned in milk) to go for a "semi- commercial" or "heat exchanger" machine (such as Diadema Junior etc) are a) because they are the type of person that like to have "commercial" quality and solidity at home and b) because these machines offer a far greater steam capacity for entertaining as they have boilers around 1.3 litres or more/...therefore much more steam for milk guzzlers! Given the machine you suggested buying has a boiler capacity not much bigger (if not almost the same) as the Miss Silvia, in a domestic situation,  you have to be the judge of whether spending an RRP of $1600.00 for Zaffiro, compared to $750.00 for Silvia, will actually do anything more for you other than result in you spending more than double the money.... to achieve possibly, no more than a similar result...? In which case perhaps you will now look more favourable on the larger capacity heat exchanger machines you also mentioned (but rejected due to price), because they really do offer something more. As to the grinder. This depends in the type of machine you buy. Incidentally you mentioned the mazzer mini. Have you not read the coffeegeek test from last August where they wrote an extremely favourable artikill / test on the MACAP M5 grinder, which is Macaps equivalent to the Mazzer Mini, and where they wondered whether the M5 is a "Mazzer Mini Killer"?  If you are going to consider one, you must look at the other, especially consideraing the mm is always hard to get, but the M5 is available right now. In addition, I would say yes, if you consider some kind of heat exchanger machine, at that price bracket then the "correct" type of grinder to get is a small commercial, eg M5, or Mini, or any other small commercial such as th Cunill Cafe Tranquilo at almost half the price of the others. Remember semi-commercial or heat exchanger machines are geared for a certian "capacity" to produce a good quality coffee, so small commercial grinders are the proper match. Otherwise for small domestic use where there is going to be little need for "capacity", there is nothing wrong with either of the 2 domestics mentioned above and they will be perfectly well mated to either a a) Lux grinder around $270.00 or b) Rancilio Rocky grinder at around $400.00. Horses for courses really! One more thing if I may...you need to be careful not to let much of what can be read on the net affect your personal requirements. There is a lot of cyclic plagiarism going round and round in circles, convincing people that they must have a select few models over all others, because of...whatever coffee equipment politikal reasons! But you need to get what's best for you, and the best way to do that is to talk to sympathetic, equipment & service providers with real life knowledge gained from experience of selling and servicing the good quality equipment they sell. Regardez, FC.

Unknown

Fresh Coffee, Thanks for a very comprehensive and thought provoking reply; much appreciated. Well, where do I start...? Yes, I do require advice. And you are right about being careful about basing all your decisions on peoples somewhat personal and sometimes unbalanced opinions on the web. I do try to filter what I read on the forums. Diadema? Are these the same machines labelled as la Valentina in the US? Looks like it, and they look to be very, very good machines. I am very much tempted by the Diadema JUNIOR ELETTRONICA, in particular. Classy, convenient and top quality...mmmm...maybe I could invite my friends around more often.... I agree entirely about any machine which uses aluminium - no, not for me - I've destyoyed enough braincells already... I did look long and hard (and still am) at Miss Sylvia. The only thing which turns me off is the supposed finickieness of the Sylvia. It seems like you need to get all the planets firmly aligned to get the most out of Miss S. At 5:30 am I wasn't so sure that I would get the best out of her... Mind you, the geek in me likes the idea of temp surfing and even the PID mods... And I suppose I would learn a lot about the variables in making Valhalla in a shot glass..! Macap M5? Yes I had read the review, but was unable to find any sign of the Macap being available in Oz. From searching further the Macap sounds like a very good option. Is the M4 just a shorter version of the M5? What sort of price would a Macap cost? (I don't need a doser) In this review : http://www.home-barista.com/feature-spotlight-grinders the Cimballi Junior also sounds very good. Is this available in Australia? HX ? To heat exchange or not, eh? It seems to me, the benefits (over a similar quality single boiler)is :

• No waiting for steaming
• Larger capacity
• Better temperature control

Mind you there appears to be debate as to whether the HX machines are particularly good in regards to temperature accuracy - http://www.lucidcafe.com/cafeforum/schomertable27.html I did find a Nuova Simonelli Oscar Professional for $1100. It's a hx model with a 1.5 litre copper boiler, and seems to be very highly regarded with owners (coffeegeek reviews). So what are my ideal requirements? An espresso machine which can consistently churn out 5 to 6 exceptional espressos/cappucinos a day, is durabn it would be nice to serve le, reliable and has readily available spares. On occasion it would be nice to churn out half a dozen lattes for guests, but not essential. Price is not limited, but I would need to understand why the extra $ is justified to go up the food chain. With grinders, I would want to get something that will last and deliver a consistent grind of espresso (no need for drip, filter, etc) Sylvia/Macap M4 ? Nuova Simonelli/Cunill Cafe Tranquilo ? Diadema Junior/Mazzer mini? Which way to go...? Thanks for the very useful feedback. Amy other feedback is much appreciated.

FreshCoffee2

"...Diadema?..." Best quality commercial style espresso, good steam capacity. Extremely reliable in service, excellent parts availablilty, extremely well built & made in Italy complying with EEC electrical and other standards, you will not cut youself if you run your fingers along the various edges etc etc etc. Miss Silvia is finicky....but no more so than any other domestic machine. Just like ALL OTHERS....it requires a knowledgeable and understanding operator. This is only my personal opinion, but if you are going to go to the expense of PIDding this machine, you should forget it & buy a semi commercial heat exchanger machine. They too vary in their thermal stability.....but this is the way they all are...and that is they way they all are...and a knowlegeable and understanding operator manages them all accordingly and has no trouble with any of them....

john

2sheds FRESH seems to have pretty well covered the lot. Not much that I could add. I agree about the 'net' thingo, can tend to get very confusing. John

Unknown

"...Sylvia/Macap M4 ? Nuova Simonelli/Cunill Cafe Tranquilo ? Diadema Junior/Mazzer mini? Which way to go...?   Try not to let the plethora of information on the net confuse the issue for you. You need to decide whether you want a domestic or a semi-comemrcial, and then whether in either group, whether you want a budget machine or the best within that group. Then you need to ask a professional who will fit a machine to your own needs. Regardez, FC.

Thanks FC. Agreed  - firstly I have to workout whether I NEED to go for a semi-commercial or a domestic model. I can see the advantages in power, versatility, style, workmanship and power with the Diademas and Gittos and Bezeras , but for  my few esprsso/machiatos a day, am I really going to see a difference?  Could not the Silvia(with a little more effort churn out a barely discernable quality shot? Don't get me wrong, my heart says Diadema/Giotto/Bezera but my brain is  hinting at Sylvia. Is there a disadvantage in the hx models, in that I have to heat  1.5 or more litres for 5 to 6 shots a day? Besides there appears to be so  many other elements in improving espresso quality - grind, bean mix, tamping, heat, water quality, roasting, etc. Do I just go with a Sylvia and learn my apprenticeship with her? After all a Diadema/Giotto alone is not going to  make the perfect shot. Grinder wise I gather that Sylvia is fussy so Rocky seems to be the minimum I gather.   Thanks again FC. You definitely have made the decision process a lot easier (even though I am not quite there yet). regards 2sheds