New Machine

Unknown

LOL! (oh NSW.. how I miss you sometimes...) I'm an import from Goulburn, NSW.

Remus

just out of interest...why did you not consider the sunbeam 6900 ? from what i have read, thats certainly one of the machines i would look into. just curious. FC would be interested to hear your views on this machine. i have always been a bit snobby on this stuff and have never given the sunbeams/brevilles of the world any consideration at all, but this one looks very good and excellent value for money.

Trussell

I agree remus as you can prob see i was looking into one of these myself but then figured i may as well just wait and get a decent prosumer rather than get the em6900 and then a hx 12-18 months later it is worth a look amy... and they should have one on display at Myers if your near hobart otherwise they'll be in most stores later this month... flushing the machine just requires running some water through it, bang out the grounds, and wash the PF, then run water through the grouphead, and put the PF in and take it out again a couple of times.  This just gets any grounds and stuff out of the grouphead (its also a good idea to wipe it with a damp cloth).  Then run some steam for a bit to get any milk from inside the wand out.... and remember to always wipe your wand straight after use (don't use anything abraisive like a scourer because this will strip the coating on your wand and make it harder to clean in the future)

Unknown

Hi there guys, FC - ideas on the sunbeam? (there appears to be far too many choices...) Bearing in mind that I don't want an aluminium boiler....

FreshCoffee2

Hello Remus, A personal view as requested... Afraid I am very much like you and have tended not to take much interest in electrical appliance brand name machines sold in department stores. There are now so many models around, and they differ so much in "performance", that it is just a source of confusion. If people like me in my industry are confused, what of the consumers?

Remus

thanks for your take FC. i totaly agree with you on marketing talk. there is alot of spin on this stuff. i think from the sunbeams point of view, what has given it enormous weight is the fact that paul barrett, (sp??), has endorsed this machine and they say it has been developed "in association" with him. that lends quite a bit of weight and credibility to the argument given the popularity of his FOX tv show and the fact that the world champ "uses" this machine. thats a pretty big statement. if i'm not mistaken, when he is making coffee on his show, he is using the sunbeam machine. again, a ringing endorsement. do you agree ? now many will be smart enuf to know that there is $$$ in sponsorship here and maybe a few less of us will think, (the cynics :P), that as soon as the cameras are out he whips out a real machine and ditches the sunbeam to the bottom of the pantry until the next filming. this goes back to the espresso machines snobbery of which i am unfortunately guilty as charged. but maybe times are changing...maybe i need to get into this century and admit that maybe...just maybe, these machines produce excellent coffee, crema for a great price. what would be great from someone like you "in the know" is if you could post what you think are the essenital elements when purchasing a machine. ie: brass boilers, 3-way sol etc etc

Remus

http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1109515596/60 intersting stuff on the 6900 FYI e/one.

Trussell

Just note FC, Allthough the mearketing is deceptive and just plain bull, i think what we were looking for were your views on the machine "in its class" The only time i think commercial has been thrown around was when i was talking steam wand size and joint in reference to the feel we're trying to find the best machine for AmyK and allthough it may not be the right machine for this case it needs to compared to the other domestic machines in its price range, ie. gaggia classic, saeco VV, Nemox machines etc. i understand you don't yet have one of these machines so cant really comment, but i don't think dismissing the machine before its even fully released yet because they used some sly marketing techniques is going to give members a chance they deserve... i agree that the service, support, and quality provided by experienced dealers is far greater, but i still think the choice is up to the consumer.

Remus

its all just opinions at the end of the day which is why we're here on a discussion board. i didn't get the impression that FC was trying to write the machine off, there is just some skepticism there and lets face it, most coffee lovers who have owned a good quality italian machine and have had experience with a major appliance model will testify, hand on heart, that historically the major brands don;t stack up to the good quality italian machines like pavoni, gaggia, saeco etc etc. the other thing he is saying to consider is the longevity and support you recieve from appliance brands compared to the quality brands which we all must agree is true. i've had my machine for the greater part of 8-9 years and i bought it from euroespresso in sydney. service is magnificent and i maintain a relationship with the SAME owners to this day. thats longer than alot of freindships last !! i would feel confident dropping my machine off to them if there was ever a problem no matter when the thing broke. lets face it if you buy a major appliance brand from DJ's and it broke after 6 years would you feel as confident going back to DJ's or sunbeam asking them to fix it ? lol i can tell you right now that the look on their face would go something like this..."look champ, you had a good run, we have a new and improved model, go and buy a new one." i think FC is just trying to point the service stuff out as a selling point for the quality machines. the other thing he is pointing out is that it's whatever floats your boat. i thought the car example was a great one. some people will buy an italian sports car cos its italian and it "feels" better. others buy a japanese sports car which does exactly the same thing, has just as many features, performs just as well for less money and are just as happy. another example is clothes. a $2000 valentino suit Vs a $500 ron bennett suit. etc my kid bro has a fully auto sunbeam, has had it for 3 yrs and its never missed a beat. if we both made coffees at the same time and had a blind test i doubt i could taste or see the difference. but i dunno it doesn;t do it for me. i have to admit anthology that the sunbeam sounds great and logically for me it is a great choice. for $600 i can buy a machine that heats milk and makes coffee at the same time ASWELL as, (by all accounts), making a great coffee. but there's this niggling little man on my shoulder that whispers..."but it's a sunbeam". i guess i gotta figure out if i can live with that. snobby ? sure. irrational ? absolutely. but hey, it's what makes us all different that makes life so interesting !!

Reschsmooth

Remus, the problem is, I think, is that Valentino suits don't come in 'Big & Tall'! (Notice how much value I have been adding to this thread lately??  ;D)

Unknown

Hi guys, I do confess that I have been turning 'coffee snobbe' for a little while now. After much deliberation I have purchased a Nemox Caffe Fenice for $575 inc postage, from a dealer here in tassie. I was glad to be able to go local on this one, as there is a huge push on staying local at the moment. She also threw in a bunch of nice little extras, which made me very happy. So - I'll let you guys know how the new baby goes. Cheers, Amy

Remus

Remus, the problem is, I think, is that Valentino suits don't come in 'Big & Tall'! (Notice how much value I have been adding to this thread lately??

ryan

well done on your machine amy, hope all the advice here helped you As i was saying FC, we point in all the directions but the advice givers are rarely rewarded with a sale. But the idea of the Forum is just that.   Amy Im glad amy you purchased local, i hope you get after sale service if needed with parts etc in case your machine breaks down, needs service after the 12 months. FC is right in that is the critical part, after the 12 months. Are the sellers retailers ?  or proper after sales service people./coffee macines etc  ? Your quote at the start of this thread is right FC. "This is one of the underlying problems with the internet, people seek and are given lots of great information in sites like this, then give their money to someone else, discounting the value of the advice given by the first party. By recommending discount artists off site willy nilly, you are not showing any suppport here " But i think i show support as a forum,  to amy and others and like in my business,  i am rarely rewarded with a sale. cheers ryan

joe

Just for the record, I saw the Via Venezia on sale this morning at Minimax Camberwell (Vic) for $404.

FreshCoffee2

Blokes ( ah that includes you Amy,....I'm just on an anti yank pro Ausie thang at the moment and didnt want to say......."guys"), What a great thread! WE havrnt seen this much action inhere for a while and it one of my facourite forums. Just a couple of quick points. I have been lying on my deathbed yesterday & today and couldn't come back in to the thread before. I've just injested a bucket full of pills and hot stuff and that's stopped the creepy crawly feelings for the moment.... Cant see properly however so any spelling mistakes will have tp be left the way they are. :D Anthology: I wasnt thinking of you when I mentioned the "commercial" thing with the sunbeam...it was in sunbeams own marketing hype and I think there is actually a copy of it in this Forum somewhere. I honestly think this was very clever and is probably what started the ball rolling for the model...with all the "anticipation" etc. I wasnt bagging / dismissing the model in any way shape or form...I was talking around it, and especially how it came to be so much "anticiapted" in the market, in fact I think I mentioned somewhere that it may well be a nice domestic machine... Amy, thanks for the private thankyou note...dont always get those! Remus, didnt get back to your questions due to illness but as the pills are making me feel so good at the moment here are some thoughts: You already have adomestic machine and it has served you well, but you also are now awware of the limitations of domestic pump driven machines...my honest opinion is it would be a step sideways to buy another similar machine. The only way to go ahead from your current machine, would be to go first to a silvia, or to an auto, or to a semi commercial. This is

Reschsmooth

Yeah, but FC, the Sunbeam comes with a 'commercial size group head' AND a 'spoon for measuring out coffee'! The spoon, FC, the spoon! (It doesn't say if it is a commercial sized spoon that can both measure and spoon at the same time)

Remus

great info FC, thanx for taking the time. boiler size is something that has always pissed me off about the pavoni, i'm not sure exactly what the boiler size is but it's small. long blacks and espresso's are easy, the temp stability of the machine is outstanding. i can make espressos as fast as i can prepare and the consistency of the pour, the crema etc is identical from the first shot to the last shot. there is no burning or bitteness in the shot at all and no waiting between shots for temp adjustment. where i struggle is the milky coffee's. in a standard SS coffee cup i can get two good strong shots with good extraction from a double dose. but in the situation where i want to make 2 MUGS of coffee, i can;t get a strong extraction for two mugs simultaneously. if i pack it with more coffee i get a poor, slow extraction and nowhere near the ml i need for 2 mugs. i have tried a finer grind but i clog it up. have tried a coarser grind with a heavier tamp and i get the ml i want but it's a weak extraction. actually the machine won;t cope very well with a very heavy tamp at all. simply won;t extract. i can hear the pump trying but aint nothing happening !! basically i have no alternative but to double dose twice to make two cups. this is so annoying it drives me completely mad. then theres the milk part. the machine needs to go thru 2 cycles to do ONE milk serving. ie: to make 2 mugs of flat white, i double dose twice then do two seprate milk preperations waiting 2 cycles per serving. this basically means it takes me a good 10-12 mins to prepare 2 mugs of coffee. so i guess thats where the silvia comes in. the boiler size is larger which should, (please correct me if i'm wrong here), sort out my problems for strength and volume of extraction. i mean how many ml am i gonna get out of a double dose in the silvia ? will it give me two STRONG extractions simultaeously with a double dose ? given that boiler size, i should also be able to heat milk quicker aswell and have much longer steam power ? is this true aswell ? ok, all that being said, what would be the point then of me upgrading to a diodema or ECM ? what are the advantages of that cos this is what i'm considering more and more. rather than have a small upgrade, go a little better and get the bee's knees. but how much more advantage can i get from say the giotto or unico as opposed to the silvia and is it really worth me spending more than double the money ? on a side note. can i just add that i had a play with the pavoni pro today and the good people at euroespresso nailed me the best shots of espresso i have ever had in my life. perhaps it is my imagination but the texture (??) of an espresso from this lever machine was something i've not exprienced b4 in any machine, domestic or commericial. needless to say that my pulls were crap and as the guys at the shop said, its gonna take me a good 2-3 weeks to really get the hang of pressure needed for the pull. they also explained the limitations of the machine to make milky coffees for more than 2 people so its essentially an espresso machine for a crowd but a capp machine for 2 if that makes sense. 1.9L capacity i think the boiler was. in other words this machine is more my luxury toy, not a workhorse. and hey, i'm cool with that and theres something kinda sexy-cool about actually "pulling" a shot. :P

Remus

btw should i be really embarressed to admit i own a gaggia MM grinder and that most of the time i'm so unorganised and lazy that i just use pregound illy canned coffe. :-X

bruce_

I actually cant see any advantage in being able to make steam and flow water ( coffee) at the same time...It is an non issue, but a great marketing  coup for sunbeam. I'd have to agree with you there. But, I don't think that is really where the strength of the twin thermoblock is.  I think the advantage is that now rather than having a TB which is a compromise between shot and steam, you now have a dedicated TB for each. So...  (providing Sunbeam have done their homework) it is possible to have a very stable temperature from it as the one block doesn't need to be capable of running at multiple temps.  If done right, it would be equivalent to the PIDing people are doing to machines. Having said that, I'm actually looking to get a new home machine right now.  The Sunbeam and a Silvia are my two choices right now (upgrading away from an Estro Profimat).  I can't help but keep seeing all the upgrades/mods that people think are necessary for the Silvia - I think I need to come in and see you some time Attilio to allay my fears. My guess is that everybody will be keeping their money in their wallet until there has been some more analysis of the Sunbeam (Alan Frew's review should be out soon, hopefully).  Not to mention I think Australia is out of stock for now. You'd feel a fool to spend the money today and for only another $150, be in a much better position. _{(Edit: fixed quote)}

admin

Hi there - just a quick few thoughts - managed to get a quick couple of shots in on an EM6900 and I have to say it performed beautifully (i currently use a Giotto at home). On a quick observation, what impressed me was the size of the filter basket holes - if anything, smaller than the Giotto. The unit should have excellent thermal stability - if it's half as good as the marketing hype (see comments in above posts)! That was about it - didn't even have time to investigate steaming; however, as i said, I did manage to pull a couple of great shots. cheers Admin

mattyj

why should this machine in particular have excellent thermal stability? And in what sense is it 'excellently thermally stable'? To comment on the baskets, all three of the 6900's I've seen have had really bad basket holes - very irregular ie: some largeish, some very small, some not even opened up, and some looked blocked/partially closed. All these irregularities could be seen in the baskets of each machine, at three different locations in sydney (Miranda DJ's, Warrringah Mall DJ's and Macquarie Centre Myers).

Trussell

i asked one of the Sunbeam reps about this (my friend is obsessed with myer's) they didn't seem to know much about the plastic inside but they mentioned that the reason for the delay in release had something to do with manufacturing proplems with the PF and filter baskets

bruce_

To comment on the baskets... basket holes - very irregular I know what you mean.  But from the two baskets that I had seen, they weren't so irregular.  The holes appeared to be somewhat uniform in their layout with the biggest holes out towards the edge of the basket and getting smaller (and more closely spaced) towards the centre.  Yes, the ones right in the centre looked like they were almost blocked. I'm far from an expert in these matters, but wouldn't that "encourage" the water to use more of the puck?  But I guess with good distrbution out of the group, you shouldn't need this - perhaps it is compensating??? So many questions...  Oh, btw Alan Frew's review should be out this weekend (saw his post on CG).

mattyj

the baskets I've seen had 3-4 rows of big holes going from one side of the basket to the other, with holes either side a lot smaller/blocked. You could see this just by removing the pf from the group and looking at the basket. I took the baskets out and had a closer inspection - holding them up to the light etc, and I was shocked! Even the cheaper sunbeams had better baskets than that!

Remus

tried the subeam today on a demo at DJ's city store. they have only one on display which is their test version, none for sale and they checked DJ's AND myer. none in sydney !! lol anyway, my overall impression. good quality coffee produced. had an espresso and a stong capp. good crema and good milk texture. not GREAT but very good. good programmable features or manual. steam production is great. and for $600 ? sheesh. thats just unbelievable value. just unbelievable. the lady, (she was from sunbeam i think and was very good), made multiple cups for say 15 people and didn;t seen to have a problem at all. she was making them as fast as she was physically able to. i didn't get to play with it cos there were so many people there but i did have a poke and it seems built well and has a very good finish. unfortunately for me...just didn;t do it for me. i don't like the emblem on the very front drip tray. don't like the plastic of the knobs, don;t like the water indicator so prominent on the front of the machine. it just didn;t have the "feel" i was after. again, product seemed great but the style of it wasn;t for me, i have no doubt that those that buy this machine will be very, very happy with the results.

bruce_

... until there has been some more analysis of the Sunbeam (Alan Frew's review should be out soon, hopefully). Alan's review is up. http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/sunbeam.html Hmm... Think I may have just made up my mind.

lars

Hi Matty - not sure if you realise this, but the temperature required for steaming and for pulling a shot are quite different - 100 deg. C for the former and 92 deg. for the latter. The problem with most of the cheaper domestic espresso machines is once you've pulled a shot, the machine has to heat up for steaming, and will generally then be above the optimal temperature for extracting the next espresso. The Sunbeam obviously uses two independent heat sources to get around this fundamental limitation - am presuming this is what Admin's referring to with respect to temp. stability, Best L

Unknown

Hi blokes and sheilas, To take it back to the Caffe Fenice for the briefest of moments. It should arrive tomorrow, and i'm trying to gear up to look after it the best I can. Should I get a blind basket and cleaner? or is this not neccessary for a domestic machine? A group head brush? Some direction please - and if so, where can I find a blind basket to fit the Fenice? (it looks like it is a 65mm basket.. not the standard 58mm..)

mattyj

lars, I am aware of the fact that you need two different temps for steam and espresso. But thermoblocks used in espresso machines tend to be on the cheap side, and the temperautre tends to drop quite a bit during the shot. I say this from nearly two years of living with a thermoblock machine, and reading of many other thermoblock owners woes. From admin's post, it seemed that (because the comment on temp stability followed the comment on basket hole size in the same paragraph) basket hole size and temp stability are linked. That, or 'it should have excellent temp stability' because it has a dedicated brew TB. My thought on this is that, if I only run my machine for espresso, then the TB is being dedicated to espresso only - it's still not that thermally stable. The problem is, even though it's only working at one temp (apparently 92C), the temp of the TB should drop as cold water enters the TB. Alan Frew's test shows a 4C drop in temp during a shot - within acceptable parameters (according to his review), but still not 'excellently thermally stable', IMHO. A few mates of mine have had a go of them - they sound like really good machines, heaps of potential to be a category killer ... but his comment was that if you take coffee too seriously (that's me!) you'd be frustrated and wanting to upgrade pretty soon.