EM7000 Purchased - EM6910 Retired - Initial observations

Honest_Gaza

As alluded to on other threads, my EM6910 finally gave up after 5 Years.

Purchased the EM7000 today for $700 (unfortunately 1 week too late to benefit from the Sunbeam Free Grinder deal).

Initial observations include :

[li]7000 is slightly deeper than the 6910 (approx 4cm), so sticks out a bit further from the wall[/li] [li]7000 Espresso function is definitely quieter than the 6910[/li] [li]loving the temperature guage of the 7000 Steam wand[/li] [li]would prefer the little rubber TAB that was included on the 6910 Steam wand (7000 only has the rubber tube)[/li] [li]7000 water reservoir is lower and deeper than the 6910 so that probably explains the deeper body[/li]

After the initial problems I had with the 6900/6910, the last Machine lasted me just over 5 years with no issues.  Hopefully, this one will also last at least 5 Years.

Brett H

Congratulations mate!  We'd love and Honest user review.  Many happy coffees to you HG!!  :coffee2:

Honest_Gaza

Further observations (when compared to the 6900/6910) :

[li]No roller wheels under the machine to assist in sliding out from the wall (eg during water top-up)[/li] [li]Due to the deeper / shorter design of the water resevoir, machine has to come out a long way to remove it for refilling (personal preference that I prefer to remove to refill rather than pour from the top)[/li]

But still happy with the beast  :thumb:

Brett H

on 1373682919:

Further observations (when compared to the 6900/6910) :

[li]No roller wheels under the machine to assist in sliding out from the wall (eg during water top-up)[/li] [li]Due to the deeper / shorter design of the water resevoir, machine has to come out a long way to remove it for refilling (personal preference that I prefer to remove to refill rather than pour from the top)[/li]

But still happy with the beast  :thumb:

Interesting.  In fairness to the machine most espresso machines don't have wheels.  How's the coffee in comparison to the 6910 a couple of weeks on?

derrilex

Wheels ? My 6910 didn't have wheels that I can remember. Then again I'm blocking those memories in the brain vault  :D

Honest_Gaza

Definitely....tilt the machine back slightly by lifting the front, and the machine rolls on wheels built in to the rear feet 

Honest_Gaza

on 1373686101:

How's the coffee in comparison to the 6910 a couple of weeks on?

Noticing my first real gripe with the EM7000...possible pressure limitation ? My personal method of choice for making multiple coffees (eg 3 or 4 at a time as opposed to just 1 for myself), is to steam the milk for 1 and do the espresso pour towards the end of milk steaming...and then make the first Cappuccino. Top up the milk, get the next lot of coffee grind....and same procedure as above for the 2nd Cap...and so on. With the EM6910, I used to find that by the 3rd or 4th espresso pour, the machine would struggle to force the water through the grind and I would end up with an over extraction and little espresso in the cup.  I used to compensate for this by easing off on the tamping for the last Cap. With the EM7000 (using the exact same method of Steaming and Espressing)...I find the same problem occurs from the 2nd Espresso Pour....so much so that the Needle on the Meter goes right to the limit.  It can't be the grind is too fine as it is the same grind setting I always use...and the individual ones I make for myself during the course of the week are all great. I performed further tests by just doing Espresso Pours (without resteaming the milk)..and all of the Pours are successful.  So I can only assume that the EM7000 doesn't have the same level of pressure when combining Milk Steaming with Espresso Pouring that the previous EM6910 had ? Or I have a problem with my new EM7000  :-|

Brett H

on 1376708490:

Noticing my first real gripe with the EM7000...possible pressure limitation ? My personal method of choice for making multiple coffees (eg 3 or 4 at a time as opposed to just 1 for myself), is to steam the milk for 1 and do the espresso pour towards the end of milk steaming...and them make the first Cappuccino. Top up the milk, get the next lot of coffee grind....and same procedure as above for the 2nd Cap...and so on. With the EM6910, I used to find that by the 3rd or 4th espresso pour, the machine would struggle to force the water through the grind and I would end up with an over extraction and little espresso in the cup.  I used to compensate for this by easing off on the tamping for the last Cap. With the EM7000 (using the exact same method of Steaming and Espressing)...I find the same problem occurs from the 2nd Espresso Pour....so much so that the Needle on the Meter goes right to the limit.  It can't be the grind is too fine as it is the same grind setting I always use...and the individual ones I make for myself during the course of the week are all great. I performed further tests by just doing Espresso Pours (without resteaming the milk)..and all of the Pours are successful.  So I can only assume that the EM7000 doesn't have the same level of pressure when combining Milk Steaming with Espresso Pouring that the previous EM6910 had ? Or I have a problem with my new EM7000  :-|

That's a really interesting observation.  I would have never suspected that the pump pressure would fatigue (for want of a better word).  I'd be inclined to all customer support because these machines are supposed to do exactly what you're doing and consistently!! 

Honest_Gaza

Hmmm...had to make 3 in succession during the weekend, and all ok  :-| Will obviously continue to monitor

derrilex

That's odd because it makes no sense. The machine has 2 pumps and 2 thermoblocks both independent of each other. Steam, brew, brew, steam, together or separate should make difference to either's performance

UNM

Two thermoblocks one pump would limit things, but with  two pumps there should be little difference unless you have dodgy input power.

Honest_Gaza

I was trying to convince myself that the issue I was having with the espresso pump was my own doing...but it is definitely still a problem when making multiple successive coffees.  On the 3rd and 4th, the gauge hits the red zone and the espresso barely drips out through the group handle.  Same grind and tamp techniques as used for the 1st and 2nd pours. And now I have an additional problem.  The steam control seems to have got very stiff and needs to be turned very hard to switch off the steam.  I have to listen  to see if the pump has stopped in order to know i have switched it off.  Once it is off, there is a delay of approx 3-5 secs before the Steam stops...not sure if this is normal for the EM7000 but it certainly wasn't for the EM6910. Looks like a call to Sunbeam after the weekend

Honest_Gaza

Made the call to Sunbeam today and have been advised to take it back to place of purchase for replacement machine. Hopefully I will have better luck with the next one. I'm feeling a bit of de-ja-vu here....is it the EM6900/EM6910 all over again ?

Brett H

It's to be expected with any product run that a small number will be defective.  Let's hope that it's a very small number and your next machine is bang for buck!

Honest_Gaza

Returned the unit to place of purchase today and picked up replacement unit. Plugged in the new unit tonight and I believe the expression is "NOT HAPPY JAN"  :mad: From my short time with the previous EM7000 I remember that on Power Up, the unit beeps once and both gauges register like tacos in a car at full revs. This one beeped 4 times and only 1 gauge registered....and the "Fill Tank" light remained lit.  After running through a full reservoir of water (as per initial start-up instructions)...I then topped up the reservoir and am still getting the "Fill Tank" light lit permanently.  More annoyingly, every time you hit a button it beeps 4 times to attract your attention to the "Fill Tank" indicator. Looks like another call to Sunbeam in the morning....and the EM6900/EM6910 episodes all over again  :rofl: (If I don't laugh...who will)

Lacehim

Return to place of purchase, demand a refund.  Buy a decent Italian style machine with brass and stainless steel. You might think that is harsh, but seriously if you invest in a decent machine it will last years, and you can probably fix some things yourself.  With these consumer devices you can't fix anything and have too many electronics in them for my liking.

Honest_Gaza

After speaking to the Sunbeam Service Desk it was suggested it could be the Floating Level Mechanism that had gone faulty they advised they would send out a replacement Float.  As a test, I ripped the one out from my EM6910 (appears to be identical except for colour) but still the same problem. I also did further tests with the Steam Wand and the Temp gauge does not register at all.  So definitely a dud machine....No.2 Further calls to Sunbeam tomorrow to organise a replacement.....No.3 Yes I probably could demand a refund, but my preference is to have a working EM7000 

Honest_Gaza

Harvey Norman has ordered another Machine from Sunbeam....should be available mid-Week. If this one is faulty...that will be the end of it  for me :-[

Honest_Gaza

Update time....have had the new replacement machine approx 3 Months and so far, so good.

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1390568778:

Update time....have had the new replacement machine approx 3 Months and so far, so good.

You are staying caffeinated then Gazza

Honest_Gaza

Has only taken me several Months    but just discovered a major misrepresentation from Sunbeam relating to this Machine. The temperature gauge, which for me was a major selling point in the extra $$$ compared to an EM6910...actually uses a timer rather than a sensor.  That's pretty poor from from Sunbeam.  >:(

Koffee_Kosmo

on 1394533679:

Has only taken me several Months    but just discovered a major misrepresentation from Sunbeam relating to this Machine. The temperature gauge, which for me was a major selling point in the extra $$$ compared to an EM6910...actually uses a timer rather than a sensor.  That's pretty poor from from Sunbeam.  >:(

There must be some sort of thermostat in there somewhere Can anyone in the know care to comment ? KK

QM0996

on 1394533679:

Has only taken me several Months    but just discovered a major misrepresentation from Sunbeam relating to this Machine. The temperature gauge, which for me was a major selling point in the extra $$$ compared to an EM6910...actually uses a timer rather than a sensor.  That's pretty poor from from Sunbeam.  >:(

Which temp gauge ?  I can check on the one here but was sure temp is temp for Milk and Group.. Now as to pressure; that is calculated via boyles law and derived from the flow rate...

Honest_Gaza

Talking about the temperature gauge of the Steam Wand. Simple test : Grab 2 cups, one with cold water and one with boiled water Place Steam Wand into cup with cold water and operate Steam Wand until Gauge hits 65degs...then, Place Steam Wand into cup with boiled water..note the Gauge is back to minimum reading (even though the water was boiled recently) Operate the Steam Wand and by the time the Gauge hits 65degs...the Water in the cup is boiling over the edge Working on a timer  :coffee2: And an even simpler test.  Simply point the Steam Wand at your bench-top (place a towel or sponge to protect the bench)...and let the steam flow while watching the Gauge work its way up to the 65degs  :doh:

QM0996

on 1394612631:

Talking about the temperature gauge of the Steam Wand. Simple test : Grab 2 cups, one with cold water and one with boiled water Place Steam Wand into cup with cold water and operate Steam Wand until Gauge hits 65degs...then, Place Steam Wand into cup with boiled water..note the Gauge is back to minimum reading (even though the water was boiled recently) Operate the Steam Wand and by the time the Gauge hits 65degs...the Water in the cup is boiling over the edge Working on a timer  :coffee2: And an even simpler test.  Simply point the Steam Wand at your bench-top (place a towel or sponge to protect the bench)...and let the steam flow while watching the Gauge work its way up to the 65degs  :doh:

Got to test this one... As I do know the tip gets hot....  If you look at the latest Breville, they also have a temp probe in the steam wand but have it sitting much further out and away from the steam path. With the sunbeam one, if the insulator around the sensor gets dirty / damaged then heat from the wand will have an impact on the sensor. I will try confirm the following; if  you run it for a moment or two and then plunge into cold milk the temp will drop significantly. I will also look at the test you identified. As well as to disconnecting the temp  probe and see what happens then... Will let you know the results.

QM0996

Dammed interesting... Am off to chat to some one that may be able to explain... Did your simple test... Simple test :

Grab 2 cups, one with cold water and one with boiled water Place Steam Wand into cup with cold water and operate Steam Wand until Gauge hits 65degs...then, Place Steam Wand into cup with boiled water..note the Gauge is back to minimum reading (even though the water was boiled recently) Operate the Steam Wand and by the time the Gauge hits 65degs...the Water in the cup is boiling over the edge

Found the same... Simple test : Grab 2 cups, one with cold water and one with cold water Place Steam Wand into cup with cold water and operate Steam Wand until Gauge hits 65degs...then, Feel probe and sensor = hot Place Steam Wand into cup with Cold..note the Gauge is back to minimum reading ??? Operate the Steam Wand and it is interesting as the gauge does start higher and then the rate of change slows down ? The Gauge also only becomes active once the switch is engaged, so I will look at  how it behaves with the steam heater block disabled  / steam path directed to another port so as to separate the sensor... My gut feel is that there is something interesting going on and not just a timer as I could force all sorts of times by using room temp Vs ice cold...  But if I used hot water or just of boiling the system did not behave as expected at all.  I is confused  :tearhair:  :head:

Honest_Gaza

...and Sunbeam marketing is telling some Porky Pies

Brett H

Stop press... You heard it first here on Crema.  Of course my gut tells me there's a good explanation for the discrepancy.

QM0996

on 1394687796:

Stop press... You heard it first here on Crema.  Of course my gut tells me there's a good explanation for the discrepancy.

Been trying to think of one, but unable to think one up as yet... Only thing I can think is that some how the electronics is set to auto tare (if you know what I mean).  Thus an accurate temp if the probe is at room temp at the start... Thus if you start with something hot and or the probe is hot; then it runs as if that was the expected start point and thus a critical offset is applied...  And that is about the best I can come up with....  Have tried using ice slush and interesting.... Will run another test and also use a separate thermometer to cross check.  If I see what I think, then they have out smarted themselves; with all good intentions  :pan 

UNM

Smoothing factor?

conikal

on 1394742461:

Smoothing factor?

??? WOW ! Do you mean they have an electronic correction circuit to automatically  control the size of the bubbles in order to give the ideal Smooth micro foam ?. ! :doh: Dang ! ..thats clever ! :stir