frame
After the old forum software breaking in a way that we were unable to fix, we've migrated the site to a new platform.

Some elements aren't working as we'd hoped - some avatars didn't survive the transition, and we're still having issues with attachments that weren't added as inline images, but we're hoping to have that all sorted out soon.

Roasting for espresso, Buzz words and marketing spin

I read the following blog post with much interest.  It came up in my news feed and the whole time I couldn't get the screaming voice out of my head "BUT WHAT DO YOUR CUSTOMERS THINK?"

What does the educated brains-trust of Crema think?

http://www.heartroasters.com/blogs/heart-roasters-blog/11990945-r-i-p-soe

I reckon if you miss the third wave the first time round, why paddle in to shore through listless foamy muck!?  Why not cruise out amongst the breakers and create something new!!

Comments

  • Thanks for this Brett. I am more than a little curious about this post and it's post date of 31/1/2014. Reason being.......I've read almost the identical post elsewhere - right down to the detail with tests using refractometers, etc. Thing is though, I read it a few months ago and I'm almost 99% sure it had the same content - but I just can't remember who the post belonged to. Even the bit about the re-engineering 5 months ago rings an ironic bell inside my head. My personal opinion about refractometer testing is "nice toy to play with, gives you some great mileage with marketing spin, creates some interesting content to bang on about, but at the end of the day there is still a lot of variability in the actual results when performing TDS analysis - unless of course you have ideal lab conditions and super-expensive testing equipment". Perhaps anyone with sub-$1K TDS kit is maybe taking a long bow to the benefits. I'm not a chemical engineer or scientist, but I know enough to be somewhat "informed". This *movement* was originally (or I should say formerly) started by Tim Wendelboe - who has done well to become a highly regarded cult hero amongst European and more specifically Scandinavian roasters (and we all know those Nordic folks are big consumers of coffee). Tim went into a deep-dive to improve the performance of his espresso. Many people are jumping on the same bandwagon (ok, I admit it.....me too). But why ? Primarily, because it forces us to look at what we are doing, pushes us into new areas of coffee science and analysis for ways in which we can improve upon what we currently do. In some countries, certain styles of coffee are more popular. If anyone has tried many of the Scandinavian Specialty coffees, they would generally summarize the beans as "light roasted and very bright" in comparison to what we are used to consuming in our own domestic market. Filter and various brew types other than espresso play a more important role in some European specialty coffee markets and the roasting styles are adapted to suit that customer base. I've arrived at the firm conclusion espresso can be delivered equally well in both styles - dark or light, but the fundamental difficulty is in the acid balance and the engineering performed during extraction.  Problem is there is one almighty huge chasm between the 2 styles that tends to gobble up many a brave soul willing to step up to the plate. In relation to the article, my personal opinion is that they are doing the right thing for their business and their customers - assuming of course they can "back up the hype" with what's in the cup.
  • Thanks Jeff. The Blog came up in one of my news feeds yesterday and I posted it today.  I found it interesting but couldn't help but wonder what it all meant ;)
  • I'm missing something  fundamental, probably half asleep. What does SOE stand for in the context of this  article?
  • Ewan, It's not Standard Operating Environment. Perhaps Single Origin Espresso ? Time for another cuppa my friend.
  • Its interesting stuff, you read stuff like this all the time on Home-Barista, its never convinced me because I have never had a 3rd wave style, light roast coffee that I enjoyed. I think its simply a matter of personal preference and the danger with their approach is that if they have customers who are not at the 3rd wave end of the spectrum, they are not going to be happy with that style of roast. Its ironic that I was out last night in Saigon with a couple of friends who work for a big coffee roaster here in Vietnam and they spent some time explaining to me why they dont like arabica beans and why robusta is the bean of choice in Vietnam. I think its pretty obvious that its the bean of choice because its all they have ever grown because of the lack of elevation, they developed a local coffee that has a very different flavour profile to espresso, they use other methods of brewing and so now they say absolutely genuinely that they much prefer a proper dark coffee to the brown rubbish that is espresso!
  • on 1391479766:
    I think its pretty obvious that its the bean of choice because its all they have ever grown because of the lack of elevation, they developed a local coffee that has a very different flavour profile to espresso, they use other methods of brewing and so now they say absolutely genuinely that they much prefer a proper dark coffee to the brown rubbish that is espresso!
    My sparkie goes to Vietnam regularly and says their coffee is the best. Which is weird because he also says mine is the best. What he did like over there was they load it up with condensed milk ... again weird because he never has sugar in his coffee. Can someone (mycuppa?) explain what 3rd wave is? I thought BH was just using waxhead references for no apparent reason, but apparently there is one. At one cafe I go to they often talk about their refractometer and TDS readings, and how it has transformed "everything" they thought they knew about coffee prep. Given they won cafe of the year in Sydney I guess it has worked for them. They served me a SO pour-over and it had much more complex floral and fruit notes in the nose and palate, it was a jaw-dropper. I guess time will tell for Heart, hopefully we'll be able to look back on their blog and they'll report the relative success or otherwise of their decision. Their conviction is solid so I'm sure it'll pan out for them.
  • I think I wrote something ages ago on my blog about how the technologification of coffee is ruining the appreciation of it. I don't agree with the proliferation of using refractometers.  Constantly trying to quantify a subjective thing such as personal taste is folly.  If you make a faecal solution and it happens to fall within the optimal range of TDS for espresso, does it make it good?  No, it's still sh!t.
  • on 1391579150:
    I think I wrote something ages ago on my blog about how the technologification of coffee is ruining the appreciation of it. I don't agree with the proliferation of using refractometers.  Constantly trying to quantify a subjective thing such as personal taste is folly.  If you make a faecal solution and it happens to fall within the optimal range of TDS for espresso, does it make it good?  No, it's still sh!t.
    Like  :thumb: There is just to many variables to factor in for consistent TDS range. I prefer to actually watch it then when it's looking ok I actually, Wait for it, Are you waiting? Just another for dramatic effect, I taste the espresso & adjust it further if necessary. I know I know, I push the envelope but it works for me even if it's not
  • on 1391579150:
    I think I wrote something ages ago on my blog about how the technologification of coffee is ruining the appreciation of it. I don't agree with the proliferation of using refractometers.  Constantly trying to quantify a subjective thing such as personal taste is folly.  If you make a faecal solution and it happens to fall within the optimal range of TDS for espresso, does it make it good?  No, it's still sh!t.
    :rofl: Love this response!  Thank you! MOQ, 3rd wave is a movement but I don't know the history of it.
  • Best response of 2014 . :rofl:
  • on 1391579150:
    I think I wrote something ages ago on my blog about how the technologification of coffee is ruining the appreciation of it. I don't agree with the proliferation of using refractometers.  Constantly trying to quantify a subjective thing such as personal taste is folly.  If you make a faecal solution and it happens to fall within the optimal range of TDS for espresso, does it make it good?  No, it's still sh!t.
    I wondered who had all  the good shit.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Coffee Forum

@ 2022 The Coffee Forum, All rights reserved.

Policies

Social