La Marzocco GB5 2 Group AV vs. EE

macchiatome

Hi Pros,
I'm looking at the La Marzocco GB5 2 Group and wondering if the extra 2k is worth going from the EE (semi auto) to the AV (fully auto). Have you had experience with this machine and which one would you choose for a small espresso bar fit out (expecting to do 30-40kg of beans a week.)
Thank you

mycuppa

Firstly, let me start by saying that the GB5 is a very good choice - you will be happy. Whilst the Strada's and PB's are newer generation, the GB5 with it's shot timer works a treat. Get yourself a set of scales and calibrate your volumes with yields and palate = a winner ! Secondly......a 2 group doing 30 to 40kg a week ? Generally speaking, with the ridiculously saturated market for espresso around most parts of the Eastern capital cities, that number may be a stretch unless you have a relatively unique location (read......there are not 12+ other cafes within walking distance nearby) with a lot of foot traffic. Remember, the pie is only so big. I imagine your choice of a 2-group is either driven by space or budget constraints. I encourage you to review that choice. You have not indicated whether it's a 5 or 7 day trade. Assuming 6 day trade, that's around 6kg per day. Some days will be higher and some lower. Technically, any 2 group can handle that volume............but.........and this is a big BUT 1. Who is driving the machine ?..........a gun or a novice. 2. Do you have a separate hot water/steam system, or are you relying upon your 2-group to service the long blacks, teas, chai's and milk texturing. 3. Are you going to be stationed on the machine for 8hrs a day - without taking a break or going to the toilet  (I am serious) and who is looking after the overall performance of the business during the day whilst your eyes are fixated on espresso shots ? 4. Will you have time to look and chat with your customers to build a "relationship with regulars" whilst simultaneously pumping out coffees within the magic 7 minute deadline ? 5. Are all your customers going to singularly walk through your cafe door in even incremental time periods, e.g. every 7 mins, so that you can space out the workload comfortably.........or are you going to get hit with peaks during the day. 6. During busy times, you will need someone on milk and another person on shots - unless you are hipster slim and very flexible doing this on a 2 group can be "close". 7. Secret formula for a small espresso bar = extremely fast service..........otherwise why bother........decent coffee is available everywhere and customers will go elsewhere, especially if there is a bigger choice of accompanying food. Do everything possible to achieve the time target. Answer those questions for yourself before you make a decision. My view is that AV is fundamentally critical for consistency + quality and for those moments when you need to have others doing the work (which will be more often that you think). You need a 3-group for those kilos. Even if you only use 1 or 2 portafilters most of the time and rarely use the 3rd group. The answer to your question is neither a technical (recovery time, raw output, etc.) nor is it a financial consideration. It is simply based on the laws of practicality........those with experience would know already. If you have worked in a busy espresso bar that is focused on quality.........it's a no-brainer. And finally, engage with your coffee bean supplier - they should be coaching you on the best setup to suit your operation........it's not just the machine.

macchiatome

Hi Mycuppa, Thanks very much for your reply. Bit more about the location - Existing espresso bar on busy inbound/outbound road, can turn in coming either way. Dedicated easy carpark out front. Good signage. Definitely neighborhood feel. Three other coffee places with in walking distance. Three private schools near by. 30kgs is my aim, if I can get to that after a year of trading I'll be happy. There's already a functioning espresso bar there now which I will gut out completely, refit and rebrand. I own the business next door so the predicted weekly volume of coffee is based on my observations over the last year of their business customer flow. I think they are likely doing 15-20 kgs a week as we speak now. Trading 7 days a week 8 to 10 hours a day. Space is definitely a problem with only 30m2 to play with but I think the size difference between the 2 group GB5 to the 3 group is only about 20 cm so it's workable. 1. Who is driving the machine ?..........a gun or a novice. Two barista/shopkeeper operation, one barista being a newbie and the other with significant experience. 2. Do you have a separate hot water/steam system, or are you relying upon your 2-group to service the long blacks, teas, chai's and milk texturing. I'll be relying on the machine solely for long blacks, teas, chai's and milk texturing etc. 3. Are you going to be stationed on the machine for 8hrs a day - without taking a break or going to the toilet  (I am serious) and who is looking after the overall performance of the business during the day whilst your eyes are fixated on espresso shots ? At first I'll be wearing the manufacturer hat of barista while doing all the back office work outside of business hours but with in 3 months I will step out in to just management. It will kill me I don't deny this and it will not yield the absolute best result temporarily but budget is a factor and I can maintain shot term. I've opened up 3 businesses in the last 2.5 years in a different industry and the same temporarily over-working model works, just short term so help me God 4. Will you have time to look and chat with your customers to build a "relationship with regulars" whilst simultaneously pumping out coffees within the magic 7 minute deadline ? With two workers, the cash register staff member will be able to work their interpersonal skills. 5. Are all your customers going to singularly walk through your cafe door in even incremental time periods, e.g. every 7 mins, so that you can space out the workload comfortably.........or are you going to get hit with peaks during the day. With the current cafe there now they get two main hits in the morning, blue collar workers very early and white collar 7:30am onwards. So a bit lucky in that way because the main work load is spaced out. Of course mise en place and streamlining of op procedures will be the key to reducing wait times. 6. During busy times, you will need someone on milk and another person on shots - unless you are hipster slim and very flexible doing this on a 2 group can be "close". Agreed 7. Secret formula for a small espresso bar = extremely fast service..........otherwise why bother........decent coffee is available everywhere and customers will go elsewhere, especially if there is a bigger choice of accompanying food. Do everything possible to achieve the time target. Agreed Lots of things to think about, thanks for your help

cosmic_couple22

Nothing wrong with a GB5, has to be AV looking at those kilos. As per usual from mycuppa, brilliant advice with a non biased approach with the only intention of helping people to avoid mistakes. Your an amazing man Jeff, in an environment that we know is saturated, where you could sit quietly and shake you head and say "another espresso bar" you choose to share your experience and knowledge. Much kudos to you and thanks for what you offer this forum. macchiatome if you can fit the 3 group and you can stretch the budget it is the most sensible choice to allow for your projected growth and a free flowing work space, when your customers are backed out the door and your baristas are under the pump you'll be glad you did Wishing you much success Chester