New coffee phase in Viet Nam

BP

Hi there coffee forum folk.

I did introduce myself when I first joined, a short time back (BP).  I see now I could've started with this message and dived straight in.

I have a 21 year old La Pavoni lever machine (professional I think).  It is a great machine, one I have a complex relationship with.  When I am feeling good it makes me the best coffee, when distracted it makes very ordinary coffee.  We behave like any long term couple does.

I have moved to Viet Nam with my La Pav.  I also bought a new Simonelli Grinta grinder here to replace my old grinder that busted in transit.  That's my kit for now.

I buy fresh-ish (?) local beans here.  They cost about $14/kg.  I could buy them cheaper still, but this place is convenient.  I gather they are robusta beans.  I have recently read that Viet nam is the second largest producer of beans in the world, producing mainly robust coffee beans.

I travelled into the country side recently and came across miles and miles of coffee farms in a hilly region, small plots worked by very poor people.  Just like we hear about in the west.  They're friendly folk, living from day to day.  I am told they usually sell beans too early as all they want is a little cash-flow to ease a tough life.  I have the opportunity to start a buyer-relationship with a grower and buy beans (for a premium) at the correct stage of ripeness.

The coffee I am making is strong, it bites and has a kick I enjoy.  As a milk based coffee it is very, very drinkable, as an espresso it's still poses a challenge fro me to drink.  I am in no way an expert on beans, varieties and all that stuff.  I have shied away from complex discussions on 'mouth feel' and those adjectives used by some enthusiasts.  Maybe the jargon would be helpful after all, for me to understand why I like one cup compared to another, rather than relying on my visceral sensations. 

I would like to experiment and start roasting the local produce.  I can buy as many kgs as I want, not hard to arrange.  So I figure, while I am here I could play with whats available and try my hand at roasting robusta beans grown in Viet Nam. I would also like to more fairly support the hard work of local growers.

I have looked at a few in home, or in-cafe roasters, Gene, Hot Top, Aillio Bullet R1 and so on as my starting point.  This class of roasters will produce reliable roasts and help me learn more.  I assume it's best to start this project using a solid reliable roast machine. (especially being a novice)

I would be roasting beans for my lever La Pavoni and some time along the track a larger 2 group lever, made by Bosco (or similar).

Would anyone have feedback on:

- considerations in roasting robusta beans,
- buying a specific home, cafe-roaster best suited for this project.

Thank you to those who've read this far.

Regards

BP

Brett H

Hi mate what a beautiful part of the world to live!!  I roast robusta like any other bean but I've only roasted a few different varieties.  Just watch they don't get away at the end! Seriously consider for personal use a KKTO if you're remotely handy.  So Easy to get local parts that fit the bill irrespective of location.  For professional use go ask a supplier on the ground and don't be afraid to pay for advice or service.... it may be some of the best dollars spent. Love your comments about the Pav! I love mine, it's like a toddler (demanding, errant and moody) that dispenses coffee.

Lacehim

Second on a KKTO.  A turbo oven or heat gun for heat which are easily found, a windscreen washer motor out of a car, 12v, battery charger, pasta pot, done.  You can make a cooler out of a sieve, cardboard box and fan (which I'm using at the moment). I'm sure KK will be able to advise and help you set one up if you were interested.  They can roast up to 1kg at a time. Robusta sure packs a punch!  Lots of caffeine.

FreshCoffee2

Interesting post BP  The coffee grown in Vietnam is a result of French colonisation. Plantations fell into disuse / disrepair over time after the French left, but enterprising people have been bringing them back to life. As with any coffee, only buy good (the best) visual quality stuff you can find. (Up to a point) the better it looks, the better the result in the cup. This is because it will be far easier to roast. Better visual quality means more consistent sized better condition beans which equals a more even / consistent roast. It is generally easier to roast larger quantities as opposed to smaller quantities. EG, easier to roast a kilo than it is to roast say 300 grams.  This is due to the simple relationship between batch size VS capacity of heat source for any particular sized roasting apparatus.  If you have a machine that has a "rated batch size" of say 1 kg, then it is always best to roast that quantity because the heat source will be rated acordingly. I would advise not to fall into the trap of only doing minimum batch sizes while learning, because you will not learn to use the equipment properly for its rated batch size and just gives you more variables to try to understand over time = unnecessary / unwanted / unwarranted confusion for a newcomer trying to learn stuff. Add into that equation a non even / variable sample of beans, and you have a recipe for rubbish coffee. EG small samples can be heated too quickly and go out of control at the end, not to mention that uneven bean sizes means some roast quicker than others. On the other hand if you roast too slowly, you bake the beans and end up with a "linear" woody character. ie no character.... That is all very very simple/general, but will get you started. Vietnam has some excellent robusta, and as with all (commercial viable) coffee irrespective of whether it is robusta or arabica, you can obtain either low or high quality. As already stated, stick to the better stuff... I cant offer any advice as to a "home sized' roasting machine, but I guess if you are thinking on supplying yourself in your fledgling venture, you would probably not want something that does less than a 1 kilo at a time. Also note that when you eventually buy a commercial 2 group lever machine, it will bear no relationship to what you know from using the europiccola. Mind you, using a commercial sized machine will be so much easier in fact. Hope that helps.

Brett H

Brilliant post as usual mate!  Thank you.  You've got me thinking.... I've had coffee in Vietnam but never green beans from there.  Are there outlets that would let us buy a nice Vietnamese Robusta green or freshly roasted?

BP

Hi Brett H, Lacehim and Fresh Coffee.... Good to receive helpful comments and feedback.  Thanks.  Yes I am basically handy and see the KKTO is being suggested (again).  When I first read some of the descriptors; heat gun, wiper motor, 12 volt battery cardboard box, fan etc I did scratch my head....  But if I can live here and have a house built then I ought to be able to piece various parts together and create my own roaster. And yes I reckon I can source 'quality' beans as suggested, thanks all. Regards BP

BP

Hi guys I posted a similar note to this somewhere on the site a few hours ago ??  Then thought I should ask directly of you three who answered my questions on roasting machine options earlier.  Is there any chance of buying a KKTO new or second hand? Thoughts appreciated.  Yes, this will be my last effort to buy a KKTO before I have to start looking to build one here. Cheers BP