La Marzocco commercial machines

admin

HI guys, just doing a bit of initial research for a friend (who's quite partial to La.Marzocco machines) - does anyone know much about the benefits (& disadvantages) of the Linea and the fb80?

Also pricing? Have looked at the websites and obviously they don't list prices - presumably 'on application', but if anyone knows what a new one of either of these is going for, or what you could get a good second-hand one for, that would be great

cheers
A

mycuppa

Hello A. I can assist with some advice. The FB80 is basically old school and not really a highly sort after machine for cafe duty. The original Linea still demands attention and respect. The newer Linea PB is the machine to aim for as it’s got all the essential barista features like shot timers and can be easily upgraded with gravimetric scales if one was so inclined. The GB5 is perhaps the best value in the used market. It has shot timers and modern features in terms of configuring the setup of the machine temps and shots. Careful as some have been flogged. So, go for the newer Linea PB, then GB5 then Linea as a very basic workhorse. Now the bad news..........time to bend over. They are not cheap and 2nd hand they hold their values high. I just bought a 2nd hand GB5 3 group and spent $5k rebuilding, powder coating and upgrading the steam boiler element and that was with a top bloke that did me a really good deal on the rebuild works. Don’t buy a 2nd hand LM without knowing the history.......where it’s been and the service. One of my customers spent $16k on a brand new Linea PB and as they are in a bad water area of Victoria, the machine needs a new boiler (ph levels corroded the stainless) and $6k spent on rebuilding. Nearly everything inside was replaced after 18 months. Basically LM machines used outside of capital cities where the water of filtration servicing is less than ideal will be a ticking time bomb. The average LM needs $2k spent on it every year. Try going without and it costs you $4k the following year........no escape. As you have not specified a 2 or 3 group, you can expect to pay $10k for a good condition or recently rebuilt used machine and up to say $17k for a new machine. Actual prices are not something I wish to publish on the forum. A, if this machine is going into Adelaide, then I would caution your friend and consider something else that does not have stainless boilers. Or at the very least run 2 seperate filter systems and change these every 6 weeks. Water is the cause of thousands of $$$ is repair work on LM’s. Everything on an LM is almost 3 times the price of other manufacturers parts. Just like a Ferrari or Lamborghini, ownership of an LM comes at a premium. They make beautiful coffee.......indisputable!

Brett H

Jeff... You da man!

admin

Thanks for that Jeff (& the warning); yes was meaning 3-group. Ok so given their (L.M's) sensitivities, are there any other brands out there that you'd really recommend - do you have any view on ECM? Also, in your view is there much benefit in looking at one of the 'extra, extra' premium machines - eg Synesso, Slayer? cheers A

mycuppa

hello Ash, OK, so if it's going in local to you (Adelaide), water quality is going to be the major challenge. Some manufacturers of equipment are getting to the point of restricting or limiting their warranties to just Melbourne & Sydney metro areas.....which is more than a little insulting for the rest of Oz. Sometimes these limitations are in the unnoticed fine print and typically only get **tested** when something goes wrong before the 12 month period. Copper boiler machines from the medium or lower-range equipment are half the price and depending on the circumstances can last twice as long (in extreme water areas) - of course those are some big statements, but it's based on a decade of observations. It's a reason most mobile coffee operators don't use Blingy-Blingy brand equipment. The San Remo Opera is the current "must-have" bling and not just because it looks good - might tasty shots emit from this amazing machine. Personally, I'd be steering clear of Slayer and Synesso for controversial reasons I won't publish publicly. Worked with customers that have the many scars. As with all equipment, things do get better as they evolve and incrementally eliminate gremlins with each new year and model, but it's a steep $$ slope. There is no denying that those premium brands produce exception coffee in the hands of the skilled, as do the LM's, but it's coming at a price premium. There has been no remit on the objective for this equipment, so one can only assume it's a cafe. Cafes are in the business of trying to make money, which is not easy these days. For the last 5 years, the stylistic agenda for cafes has been utterly hijacked by obsessive fears of supposed brand snobbishness. That is, unless you have a LM/SYN/SLAY branded machine, you just aren't serious about coffee and cafe owners suffer from exaggerated imaginations that every customer can tell the difference upon split-second eyeballing the equipment when they poke their head into the entrance - which we all know is nonsense.  Less than 1% of their customers would know the difference in branded equipment and generally those are rarely going to become your "regulars". When you decide you must have a LM/SLAY/SYN, it's for reasons that are purist. You want the very best coffee and you believe it's essential or fundamental to that pursuit. It's not going to result in a point of difference because anyone can install a similar machine. Just like buying cars, you can generally tell the difference between the Commodore and the E-Series Merc across a number of aspects. Will the **look** attract more customers - unlikely. Will it result in an improved ROI over a defined period - nope. Will it make the barista's life easier, more productive ? hardly. Better trained staff and a great culture always generate superior results over the "geeky equipment philes". Some of the best machines for cafe duty have never featured in the top 3 aspiration list - BFC Synchro (no longer imported) and Nouva Simonelli T3 Aurelia are both examples of delightful machines to use (for the Barista) and superb cup outcomes. Ash, your friend needs to arrive at a set of clear objectives when identifying the ideal machine. Google is not going to help because there is too much noise and eye-candy. Hit up some cafes with the short-listed equipment and try to get some honest, real, anecdotal feedback - you might be surprised at how many "dramas" occur in real life. Good luck.

Koffee_Kosmo

A local cafe recently fitted out Started off with a Slayer A few months later they installed an LM - FB80 It was also replaced at around 12 months Haven’t been in recently to see what machine is installed now So this post may confirm Atilio’s contribution KK

askthecoffeeguy

Hi all! As per usual Jeff is bang on the money - I personally would not be laying down top dollar who top of the range equipment unless the existing turnover of the cafe warranted it and you had the funds to pay for it outright Other silverchef is your friend and you are better off taking out a 12 month contract which you can pay  off weekly, and then replace the equipment new for old with a new contract at the end of those 12 months Also worth considering is whether you need a 3 group machine in the first place coz unless you're turning over say 30 plus kg of coffee per week already then there's no real need for more than 2 groups plus you get plenty of bang for your buck in the two group price bracket I also recall a rule of thumb that says whatever you spend on your coffee machine you should be spending about half that on coffee grinders which are easily as important as the coffee machine itself No point having a top of the range machine and only one coffee grinder for you want to run with single origins and decaf as well So why risk your friends capital on a top of the range investment with no guaranteed return? For multiple money I'd rather silver chef it or start of with A BFC Synchro which are lovely machines (I used to own one and donated it to a former contributor to this forum who now roasts his own coffee down the coast somewhere) Or else Wega and Nouva Simoneli are both work horse coffee machines that should keep you out of trouble for awhile Start small and work your way up is my advice! Best, Patrick PS by the way allow at least $1k for a reverse osmosis water filter system for the coffee machine and I would advise having a technician look over any second hand coffee equipment that your friend buys prior to purchase just to be on the safe side!

admin

Hi guys, nothing about La M. machines, but I got sent through a promo from Wega about their new retro range ... see attached pdf. Don't know what the coffee's like, but have to say they're pretty nice-looking machines! 8)

askthecoffeeguy

I don't mind the look of the lever machine but they're a bugger to use in a commercial setting small baskets and not much clearance means that you haven't got a lot of room to play with and in my experience they murder a 'dark' or oily roast as the oils get trapped quite easily so the baskets need to be rinsed regularly But they are great fun to use and some of the best espresso coffees that I have ever had have come from lever machines P

Brett H

WOW!  Looks very flash!  Does anyone know if they do a one group version??