To Tamp or not to Tamp

BlueMonkey

More precisely I ask:

What are the schools of thought on tamping?

Just use the silly looking tamp that built onto the grinder, or should you use a hand held tamp?

What I can gather is that, if your making cofee for yourself and a mate and you both enjoy the full flavour, then use a hand-held tamp.  If your in a commercial environment, and all you need to do is "pump out" the coffees, then yeah, use the silly one on the grinder.

You'd have to be strong to get 30kg of force on built-in ones.

Whatayareckon?

Reschsmooth

My personal view (and I am a 'home barista') is that a hand tamper gives more control and the required force. Initially, I used the grinder attached tamper and could not get enough force or control the 'levelling' of the tamp. Most PBTC that I see in Brookvale use the grinder tamper and I so often see unlevel coffee in the basket, whereas, I have seen other, more reputable cafes where the staff use hand tampers without compromising time. Interestingly, almost every cafe I went to in New Zealand used hand tampers, even the 'cafeteria' at Queenstown airport. The coffee in NZ (south island) was generally of a much higher quality than here in Sydney. P

nzroaster

Let us consider why we tamp: 1) to create an even density of coffee to extract 2) to create a level surface on the coffee You absolutely connot achieve either of these by using the "tamper" on the grinder. If the coffee puck has any uneven density or surface, channeling occurs which results in over & under extraction of the coffee. If you are not going to tamp correctly do not even bother. In a commercial situation you can tamp and pump out the coffees. Anywhere that doesn't tamp should not be serving espresso coffee.

Trussell

i find it heaps easier to just pick up a tamper and use it than trying to use the grinder ones anyway... the grinder tamps take twice as long and don't end up doing the job!

merlocookie

Coming from a situation where pumping out 1-200 coffees an hour is the norm, great importance is still placed on the tamp.  The beans used to make our blend only require quite a light tamp-n-twist to get the desired extraction from the machine. Who else tamps lightly, and who does the 'break through the bottom of the basket' tamp.  However, at home there's nothing like getting out the stainless tamper that's just made to fit your palm, well, like a glove.  I would like to know other peoples thoughts on double tamping, as it seems like common practice these days. I was taught that double tamping was a no-no, why then do people do it?  

Reschsmooth

I tamp with thumb forefinger at 12-6 o'clock once and then 9-3 o'clock again followed by a twist and double pike P

Reschsmooth

Ignore my previous post - I expect I misinterpreted what was meant by double tamping. P

BenB

" You'd have to be strong to get 30kg of force on built-in ones. " True, but the rule of thumb is around 15kg (30 pounds) so you can relax a bit As others have mentioned, the aim of tamping is to compact the bed of coffee grinds to give and even and level resistance to the pressurised water you're pumping through it. To this end, it's pretty hard to acheive an even tamp with the grinder attached tampers as they don't usually fit the basket size properly and if you happen to lift the grinder as you tamp, you'll most likely get an uneven surface (not level). In terms of the double tamp, I haven't heard of any reason why it shouldn't be done except if you do your heavier tamp first, knock the side of the basket and then a light tamp in which case you can fracture the seal of the puck in the basket. And talking about light or heavy tamping, I would disagree that certain beans or roasts need different tamping methods: the aim is to compress the coffee so that the pressurised water doesn't 'pit' or channel through the grinds. If you tamp lightly, it is more likely that this will happen. If you tamp too hard, you're more likely to do more damage to yourself with strained joints and muscles. Cheers, Ben

Don

Hi Guys, new here, as this being my first post. We have a new Sunbeam Dual Thermoblock, and have found tamping to be of the utmost importance. If we don't get the tamp right, the coffee tastes like crap, and the machine doesn't work properly. Regarding the two/three tamp, my wife did the Sunbeam course yesterday, and the instructor actually tamped three times at various times. I'm not advocating he is right, but it's interesting to read your views, and then see what a professional is doing and advising. Also some of you might like to comment/advise us, - we try to tamp the same all the time, or as close as possible, yet sometimes the coffee takes forever to flow, and then it smells burnt, other times it's fine. This isn't our first machine, we had a De Longhi prior to this, so whilst we aren't pro's, we also aren't novices. Your comments would be appreciated. BenB, sorry mate not trying to hijack your thread. Don  

mattyj

Hey Don (& Sharon), welcome! I saw a bit of a Paul Bassett DVD in bing lee yesterday, and as he said about tamping; 'it's paramount that when you tamp, that the level of ground coffee in the basket is the same everytime', that is, when you've finished tamping, the level of coffee is the same. You can use the same method, the same force/weight as you tamp, but if there's a different amount of coffee in the basket, then the extraction will be dramatically different. hope this helps! Matt

nzroaster

Ben, absolutely agree about not variating the tamp. What I was trying to say without directing my comments at another roaster, is that the style of roast they do doesn't have the best effect on the pallatte. Thus, they teach to under-extract so that the full flavour of the beans is not extracted - as you can taste the roast degree when it is extracted properly or cupped. Oh, and the trainer says that you need to tamp light because "Arabica beans are delicate" Sorry if its a bit cryptic but I was shunned on other forums for "attacking" his product. And I speak with good authority on their training practice as 2 of my baristas were trained by this company.

admin

Hi Don - just for the record, many of the people on this forum are as experienced as the trainers on the Sunbeam course. That's not to say that they're not good at what they do [the Sunbeam team], and i believe it's a good course, however I know several of them, and they are no more 'professional' than many of the coffee professionals here on the forum. best -Admin PS if the coffee takes forever to flow and smells burnt, you'd typically have to say you've either got the grind too fine or the dose too high - not sure if anyone else with specific experience of the EM 6900 has any comments?

nzroaster

Hi Don, do you have your own grinder or are you buying pre-ground?

phishoz

Hi guys, Just new here, but I think I may be able to help. As far as tamping goes, it seems to me that your tamp will need to vary. I know I may be going against the grain, and there are plenty of coffee subjects I do that with, but nonetheless, I would think of your tamp as the final step to ensure a good extraction. The variation that I am talking about is terribly small... The variation in dose would be the biggest reason to vary your tamp. Unless you use a Swift, or you are a computer, your dose will always be a little off. (I would guess that the Swift itself would be a little off... ) If you are using an Azkoyen, or hand dosing, you will most likely vary slightly.   HENCE! The tamp will mirror your dose... I look forward to all the replies explaining how wrong I am.  ;D As for the Sunbeam, if you need some help, I have a sponsorship with them... I have a couple machines and a grinder, and I am happy to help with any questions you have about them. Ben

askthecoffeeguy

I know, I know, to tamp is all the rage and I am all for it, but I guarantee you that I couold make you a super duper quality espresso or ristretto with my commercial machine, both tamping and not tamping, and you would not be able to tell the difference. Anyone want to take me up on that one? ACG

tommy

i certainly like to see it done...

askthecoffeeguy

its all in the grind my friend

mattyj

I remember reading a discussion a long time ago about preparing espresso without tamping, using a super fine grind to compensate. The guy was remarking at how much more crema this method produced, and swore off tamps for eternity. Someone asked him about comparing the quality of the crema between a tamped shot and a non-tamped shot. It turned out that the non-tamped shot produced more crema, but it was more bubbly and fluffy, and dissipated more quickly than coffee that was ground more coarsely, and tamped firmly. As for taste, I can't remember that part of the discussion. I think in the end (once he got over the excitement of all that crema), he preferred the taste of the tamped shots. More important that tamping though (has this been said?) is evenly distributing the coffee in the basket. Just take a close look at an extraction from a naked portafilter and you'll see it. Where the puck is less dense, there is more water flowing through. Where the puck is more dense, there is less water flowing though = uneven extraction! = tastes crap! Tamping compacts the bed of coffee, but doesn't affect the density of the bed of coffee.

nzroaster

The thing about changing the grind is it will affect the taste of your shot. It is up to the barista to manipulate the relationship between grind and tamp to get the best result from the blend they use. Depending on your blend you may be able to use a finer grind/lighter tamp method. It is all in relation to the density of the bean being used. Blends high in acidity and lighter roasts will have a higher density than low acidity and darker roasts. if you grind too fine you can highlight the roast degree, acceptable with lighter roasts but can taste 'smokeyness' or similar in dark roasts. Grinding coarser can highlight the top end flavours, acceptable with darker roasts where you want to avoid the (and I hate to use this word but it will help understanding) "burnt" tastes, but with a roast that is lighter or high in acidity it can produce a sour note or too much brightness in the shot. Of course the other factor to take into consideration is the temperature and stability of your espresso machine. Machines that run hotter have the same effect as a finer grind, machines that run cooler have the same effect as a coarser grind. This can effect the grind/tamp combination you use as even 0.1 of a degree can noticably change a flavour profile of your espresso. I personally don't think you can get away with not tamping at all, but I am always happy top be proved wrong by taste test.

askthecoffeeguy

hmm... I can't recommend not tamping at all, and I don't personally believe that you can get a better result than using a hand held tamper, but I will say that a fine grind, tamped well with the tamp device on the commercial grinder will, in my experience at least, produce a very decent coffee.  Helps if you have a quality machine to extract it though. ACG