The tiny world of WBC.

Dry_bean

admin wrote:

Hi DB - yes, interesting point - is true espresso coffee going to spread to the masses, or is it simply the preserve of a 'knowledgeable few'...?

G'day Admin. My feeling is espresso coffee has already spread to the masses, note I did not use the word true, witness all of the Sunbeam, Breville and Dehlongi machines marching out of the door at HN, I'm sure all of these new owners aspire to the greatness of true espresso but somewhere along the way for one reason or another the wheels fall off, it's a little like cooking, some of us are good cooks, a few are great and most cant boil water without burning it. I know a few of the previously mentioned Sunbeam, Breville and Dehlongi owners and they all serve a very ordinary brew, one "a Breville owner" boasts of buying his preferred Harris pre ground coffee from Cheap as Chips for $8 a kilo and what's more reckons it's bloody wonderful. :🙂

blanyon

I think what WBC is about is the pointy end of coffee, ie pushing it to new heights. Your comment about good coffee being unchanged for 30 years would smack in the face of a lot in the industry who have put in years of work to improve growing/roasting/storage/making processes, not that I am saying you are wrong however. I think that a balanced coffee well prepared would cut the mustard in any decade so on that point I agree. But I am a fan of the WBC if they are pushing the boundries and teaching us something we didn't know. This is where the current format falls down I think the competition doesn't teach us much about what was done to win (unless we can glean it from the grainy streaming video). There is some benefit in having the winner travel the world promoting coffee but it seems to have limited reach as it is only one person. There also seems to be benefits for the industry with the top barista's from each country having the ability to learn from each other through competition but again very limited numbers so the effect would be minimal. I think that competing is good for individual barista as they are required to look at exactly how they make coffee and they must be good at what they do to progress, there are currently not enough competitions however for this to have much of an impact on the industry as a whole. It would be nice to have regular competitions (not WBC) more like the smackdown competitions I have read about in the states and uk where it is much more fun and collaborative. Anyway hope some of that makes sense, I have had a bit of a shocker at work today so the head is a bit all over the place. Cheers Brett

askthecoffeeguy

opps had a five minute break from work and tapped out a rapid response on my iphone then got called away to make coffee thus my abbreviated response I'm sorry but I have top disagree with you about good coffee ten years ago being comparable to good coffee today - at my work we use 24g baskets as standard for every coffee that we make and there's just no way that a 7g (as was standard then and is still standard in the majority of establishments today) espresso is going to be able to stack up next to a 24g equivalent - in terms of depth, body, and structure etc And yes, agreed that good practise goes a long way towards making good coffee but some of the modern innovations such as flow restrictors and over-sized heat exchangers, and 24g baskets etc are in capable hands going to make a far superior coffee to equipment that was current ten or even five years ago the way i see it its a symbiotic relationship - WBC class competitors are collaborating with machine manufactures to create cutting edge technology machines which will inform all future espresso based equipment - and this is already having a trickle down effect on how machines are made, and how our coffees are crafted more later cheers pAt

DoubleRistretto

askthecoffeeguy wrote:

and this is already having a trickle down effect on how machines are made, and how our coffees are crafted

probably true Pat, but that's not really DB's point. Isn't he asking why it hasn't captured the general public's imagination in any way - ie why it hasn't 'taken off' with the consumer?

blanyon

Cause the general public (majority of people here) don't get or want to get that there is any skill involved in making a coffee, so how can they imagine there is a world championship. Also it is really nerdy and not made for tv so it is really hard for someone with very little knowledge of coffee to get what the heck is going on in a competition, that is if they ever see one. Brett

admin

guess the interesting question would be, what would it take to make it more accessible to the general public, and what is the likelihood of it ever 'taking off'?

blanyon

I think the WBC should focus on being an industry event and develop another more public focused (and accessible) event to promote coffee to the masses. Brett

askthecoffeeguy

DoubleRistretto wrote:

askthecoffeeguy wrote:

and this is already having a trickle down effect on how machines are made, and how our coffees are crafted

probably true Pat, but that's not really DB's point. Isn't he asking why it hasn't captured the general public's imagination in any way - ie why it hasn't 'taken off' with the consumer?

Agreed the average consumer probably doesn't even know that the competition exists but with Australian champions putting their names to prosumer machines their is no question that their impact is being felt

admin

yes, damn good point AM!

Dry_bean

admin wrote:

guess the interesting question would be, what would it take to make it more accessible to the general public, and what is the likelihood of it ever 'taking off'?

I doubt the general public will ever give a fig about barista competions, they're about as exciting as watching the judging of a home brewing comp (I've done that and it ain't exactly riveting stuff) Now as far as promoting the coffee industry in general, possibly a stand at annual Australian capital city Royal shows or exhibitions fitted out with quality equipment, serving quality coffee at a reasonable price and manned by people who as well as being better than average barista's have excellent PR and communication skills. I'm not talking about a sales set up by a business but a PR stand set up by a combined industry association. You can't hide an event away in an obscure location and expect people to seek you out, you have to go to where large numbers of people congregate and engage as many as you can by offering a quality product at a reasonable price in an attractive setting, staffed by enthusiastic people willing and able to impart their knowledge. Sure it would be expensive to run, but we keep hearing how rapidly things are growing, the whole Aust coffee industry would benefit from the publicity generated. 😉

Dry_bean

[quote author=askthecoffeeguy link=topic=1329.msg10579#msg10579 date=1298284504] Agreed the average consumer probably doesn't even know that the competition exists but with Australian champions putting their names to prosumer machines their is no question that their impact is being felt My point exactly, I had no idea that Australian champions were putting their names to prosumer machines ??? (please enlighten me) and I feel I'm much better informed than the average Joe Public, however I do know Al Pacino advertises Vittoria coffee :🙂

askthecoffeeguy

Dave Makin has the Makin espresso machine which is a dual boiler version of the Giotto Prrmium and I'm pretty sure Paul Basset put his thoughts into the sunbeam em6910 cafe series machine Likewise the BFC Synchro which is a commercial three group machine which we use at my work was designed in Melbourne with serious input by Dave Makin to incorporate over sized heat exchangers in the boiler (on the single boiler machine there is a multiple boiler variant) and 2mm flow restrictors at the heat exchanger combined with 0.6mm flow restrictors at the group head - designed to allow for updosing and long slow continuous extractions of a minute or more without blonding or burning the shot Likewise La Marzocco has teamed up with some of the world champ competitors to co-design their high end paddle opperated machines, as have Della Corta and Nouva Simonelli, who have designed machines specifically for WBC, which have then gone to market, as has Compak Grinders with their WBC edition release of their K10 - which we also use at my work And invariably those cafes in Melbourne which have a thriving coffee culture, are using pioneering coffee machines such as the Sabre or the Slayer - which have been designed in conjunction with working baristi to enable them to have greater control over the elements if extraction I think it's fair to say that cafe owners and operators who embrace cutting edge technology machines with capability and competence are paving the way for others to follow and are raising the benchmark for all In my recent travells up the East Coast I enjoyed absolutely amazing coffee in Bellingen, on the NSW north coast, and in Maleny, which is a 40 min drive inland from the Sunshine Coast - two places not readily known for their coffees - and in each instance the operators were applying championship acquired skills to craft incredible coffee If the impact of coffee competitions is being felt here then it's only a matter of time before it impacts on other lessor known coffee destinations - and I for one look forward to the improvements in quality that this brings Acg

blanyon

Dry bean. wrote:

admin wrote:

guess the interesting question would be, what would it take to make it more accessible to the general public, and what is the likelihood of it ever 'taking off'?

I doubt the general public will ever give a fig about barista competions, they're about as exciting as watching the judging of a home brewing comp (I've done that and it ain't exactly riveting stuff) Now as far as promoting the coffee industry in general, possibly a stand at annual Australian capital city Royal shows or exhibitions fitted out with quality equipment, serving quality coffee at a reasonable price and manned by people who as well as being better than average barista's have excellent PR and communication skills. I'm not talking about a sales set up by a business but a PR stand set up by a combined industry association. You can't hide an event away in an obscure location and expect people to seek you out, you have to go to where large numbers of people congregate and engage as many as you can by offering a quality product at a reasonable price in an attractive setting, staffed by enthusiastic people willing and able to impart their knowledge. Sure it would be expensive to run, but we keep hearing how rapidly things are growing, the whole Aust coffee industry would benefit from the publicity generated. 😉

There is an interesting group in the US called Coffee Common where specialty coffee is coming under the one banner to promote the industry, I think it is a great idea and would work here if enough of the industry got together. Their website is www.coffeecommon.com Cheers Brett

askthecoffeeguy

Thanks for the link Brett it looks like a grest resource

hazchem

moto coffee wrote:

There is an interesting group in the US called Coffee Common where specialty coffee is coming under the one banner to promote the industry, I think it is a great idea and would work here if enough of the industry got together. Their website is www.coffeecommon.com Cheers Brett

I love the coffeecommon initiative for the current TED conference in the USA. I hope they do more! Featuring Crema contributor Emily Oak & current Australian Barista Champ Matt Perger, along with Jason from Market Lane, great that some Aussies got invited to be involved too!

admin

yeah, it's a great privilege [to be included along with speakers like Bill Gates] - for those who are unaware, TED is a conference of 'thought leaders' - for more, check out LA Times: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/03/ted-conference-long-beach-bill-gates-jason-mraz.html A

[deleted]

Train all of your staff well, and never forget that you only know what you do, I know something you don't, and you know something I don't. The better we get, the more we train (ourselves and others), and share our skill, the higher the profile we give coffee in general. But for all of you whom are the best barista in the business. You are already a god to people, and if you share your passion with the interested, it'll be a virus. WBC is an irrelevancy in my opinion

askthecoffeeguy

flushed wrote:

Train all of your staff well, and never forget that you only know what you do, I know something you don't, and you know something I don't. The better we get, the more we train (ourselves and others), and share our skill, the higher the profile we give coffee in general. But for all of you whom are the best barista in the business. You are already a god to people, and if you share your passion with the interested, it'll be a virus. WBC is an irrelevancy in my opinion

Um... not sure how you can strive to be the best in the business and not use the benchmark as a standard to measure yourself against? I've done competition training and it completely changed the way I make coffee

[deleted]

Trying not to be rude here. But I think if you read all of the words I wrote, and be sure to read them sequencially. You may find that I stated that we need to continue learning. That was very open ended. Ans yes I do realise that that sounded rude, but you "did" quote me I still think the WBC is an irrelevency, because no-one really cares that much about it. I'm, not saying competing is redundant. And I have learnt from competition training aswell. My personal problem with WBC, is the list of rules that govern a top barista, have barely any relevence to the actually daily brilliant barista. But thats another thread.

[deleted]

I do hear what your saying though. (especially about the rural areas improving) Except to say that a benchmark set impossibly high, compared to the messy, unpredictable, sometimes intensely scary world of high volume coffee making. Simply becomes an irreleveny. If you are talking about brilliant coffee and the WBC's influence over that. From a technique angle, I would say that it can make waves. But only for the geeks (me included). But all of the other potocol, will really never mean that much, except to the ones passionate about winning and being seen/known.