the updosing debate - where do you stand?

mattyj

If it tastes good, do it! I've updosed on Hazel's Linea before and the coffee's she was using suited it well. But on my Expobar, the shower scren stis really low, and updosing means instant chanelling and uneven extractions. So I don't updose at home, beacuse it tastes bad.

FreshCoffee2

I am happy to second all that you have written NZ! Regards, FC.

tempestv8

Can't really add anything to what's already been mentioned about up dosing. I've got the Sunbeam EM6910 and I've read somewhere that its baskets are smaller than the ones supplied to the infamous EM6900. However I do believe that the baskets actually do hold more coffee than the industry standard 7 & 14 grams. The coffee coming out of the machine has tasted great but the caffeine hit must surely be higher with the higher dose of coffee. This last bit is purely my own speculation and not based on any factual, empirical data.

askthecoffeeguy

Actually this is not necessarily the case, as when I up-dose, I usually cut my pour short, thus only capturing the premium extraction! Also, I've heard it said that the majority of the caffeine is extracted at the end of the dose anyway, so if the pour is shorter, then the caffeine must be less Make sense? P :🙂

nzroaster

As coffee is extacted, the start of the pour has lots of flavour and oils, as the pour continues this drops exponentially. Caffiene is the opposite, as the coffee is extracted longer, more caffiene is extracted. By using more coffee for the same extraction time and volume what is effectively happening is you are only extracting the first part of the espresso for longer. This is why a ristretto has a more intense flavour than an espresso. And why brewed coffee has more caffiene than an espresso. By updosing you are bringing in some elements of a ristretto into your espresso.

askthecoffeeguy

That's what I'm talking about! Although, now I'm finding that we have to tweak our dose around 4 times per day, as well as adjusting the grind, in order to get the best result, which ads a new dimension and an added element of risk to e whole up-dosing venture! Cheers, Pat

DoubleRistretto

all the benefits of a ristretto - shorter extraction, richer, sweeter flavour, lower caffeine - it's got to be a good thing! -dR

askthecoffeeguy

Yes but how do you cost this out in a commercial sense, if you're using nearly 30% more ground coffee for a double shot, (20g as opposed to 14g), do you factor this into your retail price structure? At the moment we charge less than recommended retail on the basis that at a university environment, it's hard to justify charging more, with stiff competition (at least price wise) around every corner. Still, I suppose you could say that volume of sales more makes up for a relatively low starting price point (we charge $2.4 for an espresso and $2.8 for all our regular coffees, regardless of whether they're a single shot or not, and we serve a SO Papua New Guinea 'wild grown' Okapa coffee as our house 'blend.' Any thoughts out there re: the cost of up-dosing? Cheers, Pat

tempestv8

I would imagine that the "cost" of upgrading every shot to produce better tasting coffee is that you may end up being a lot busier as more and more customers return to your store, and you'll need to start spending serious money on expansion, more staff, etc. 😉

nzroaster

thats massive. How do you fit 20gm into a 14gm basket? Have you checked that you were using 14gms before. The way I justify it: Standard dose 16gm double Updose 20gm double cost of 1 Kg $22 approximation cost of 2gm 4.4c So does 4.4c per shot impact your bottom line? I know I'm looking at it from one side. The other way around it goes like this: number of coffees per kilo @8gm/shot = 125 number of coffees per kilo @ 10gm/shot = 100 Can you afford to lose 25 shots per kilo........... YES!!!!

askthecoffeeguy

I specifically requested larger baskets from my supplier to cope with the up-dosing. And yes, you are right about the cost factor. Besides which we make our margin on our medium and large coffee sales anyway. Also, up-dosing provides us with added consistency, and a lot more return patronage, as well as a constantly growing cliental, which more than compensates for the extra 4c per shot! When you think of it that way, its a very wise investment indeed! Thanks for the lowdown. Pat

lars

Hi guys - realise this is a slightly different topic, but have you noticed how most baristas, if they are asked to make a single shot, will use one spout of a double, and waste the other? I guess this sort of fits in with where D.Ristretto's coming from - wouldn't it make sense to use both spouts (into a single cup/glass) and simply run for half the time. Less waste and a sweeter tasting shot! Lars

takeaim

I find it harder to pull a good single and have experimented with different baskets and dosing techniques but have always been slightly out if the grind is right for a double, so like many others pour a double. As for a doppio ristretto being sweeter, yeah but does that make it better? Not everyone wants it strong and I prefer an espresso to experience the 'full story' rather than just the 'intro', so to speak.

nzroaster

wouldn't it make sense to use both spouts (into a single cup/glass) and simply run for half the time. Less waste and a sweeter tasting shot!

First off its the same waste. You are using two doses of coffee, water is free. There are a few reasons alot of barista do this. 1) as some barista believe that a single basket promotes channelling, 2) depending on your equipment the dose required for a single and double basket are not the same. Also, you have to be careful that what you serve is what was ordered. If I order an espresso, I do not want a ristretto, I want what I ordered. Just because you may prefer it, does not mean the customer will. What I suggest is prepare to pour 2 espresso. From 1 spout capture the entire espresso, from the other capture 8 sec intervals so that you get 3 parts of 1 espresso. Taste the last 3rd through to the 1st third, then taste the complete espresso. Even though the 1st 10ml is intensly sweet, it lacks the balance of the full espresso.

askthecoffeeguy

I also find that unless your grinder is specifically calibrated to produce two quality espresso extractions (and by that I mean 2 x 20m from 30sec) - and few are due to the lengthy extraction time, then you are NOT going to get a traditional espresso from a double pour, for several reasons: Firstly, the extraction time is not the same, so you are not going to wind up with the same rich, lovely, caramelised tones that you would get from a single extraction. Secondly, as mentioned above, a single pour concentrates the flavours, as the coffee is 'forced' through the single spout, which has the effect of a longer, more continuous draw. And lastly, a short pour from double extraction (double ristretto?) is a different kettle of fish entirely, to a single extraction. I mean, if you asked for a double ristretto, you'd be disappointed if you got a single espresso, wouldn't you? So the same in converse applies! P