Breville's new dual boiler machine BES900

UNM

Regarding pressure readings of 12 bar, wouldn't that be a problem that should be resolved under warranty? These machines are reportedly 100% scace calibrated at the factory. If the gauge reads that much higher than expected, it is well outside what I would consider normal tolerances. I don't know what normal accuracy of these gauges is, but +/-30%, makes it as useful as a chocolate teapot (imnsho). If it was me, I'd be talking to whoever sold me the machine to find out where the fault lies. It may be that brew pressure was not correctly set, or has drifted in transit, neither of which inspires confidence. How Breville handle the early problems is something I have been waiting to find out.

DoubleRistretto

mcknightp wrote:

Guys, Acknowledged you need to add State based Sales Tax, labour rates in the US are substantially lower than here, ie a counter jumper working in the Gap earns about $12/hr, we have compulsory Workers Comp Insurance ~3-4%, compulsory Superannuation 9%, restrictive hiring/firing legislation. In other words the cost of doing business here is much higher than in the US. Cheers, Phil

interesting to see the following about questions being asked of Apple and other companies about the significant price differentials for the same products in Australia vs the US, from SMH: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/aussie-apple-boss-comes-out-of-the-shadows-to-confront-ripoff-claims-20110819-1j17p.html

Muscles

This is off topic from Dual Boiler discussions and perhaps warrants a new thread... It is interesting that an enquiry is happening but why now? Because one pollie likes his technology but doesn't want to pay higher prices? What if he liked coffee too, would we see an enquiry in to the prices of hardware we are interested in? Using the Adobe creative suite 5.5 master collection as an example, I have one of our staff members in our LA branch buying it and emailing me the serial number so we pay $2599US instead of $4299AU... go figure. Shoppers are already showing their outrage at the price gouging by shopping online from overseas and will continue to do so until prices here come in line with the rest of the world. Why can a US citizen get a mini short hopper for a mazzer grinder for less than $20 while here they sell for $50 or $60? Competition and population. We do not have enough compeition here and if we got more competition could our population sustain it?

admin

no problem with this angle of the discussion located here for now; interestingly, I always put the differential down to the higher $US, but that's obviously not a factor now; the other thing I had always assumed was that the US being a much bigger market, it automatically meant that it was just that much more competitive [ie greater competition leading to tighter margins]?

Brett_H

admin wrote:

no problem with this angle of the discussion located here for now; interestingly, I always put the differential down to the higher $US, but that's obviously not a factor now; the other thing I had always assumed was that the US being a much bigger market, it automatically meant that it was just that much more competitive [ie greater competition leading to tighter margins]?

Dont worry about the US, just wait until there's a machine at every Good Guys and Harvey Normans. Then you'll see the prices fall; and, the sweetheart deals struck with the smaller guys to push this thing in the forums will be long forgotten. A couple of key staffing changes at Breville will be all it takes and the little guys will have to fend for themselves. Finally lower prices for everyone, B900 and Smart grinder packages under a grand and all it will cost is the bottom lines of a couple of guys brave enough to push this thing in their own clientele base. The genius of Brevilles marketing here is that long after the contracts are over the positive words will remain in Google searches for all to base their research upon... I truly hope I'm wrong!!!

DoubleRistretto

I still haven't struck anyone who's actually bought one of these - wonder how their early sales are tracking? dR

Brett_H

DoubleRistretto wrote:

I still haven't struck anyone who's actually bought one of these - wonder how their early sales are tracking? dR

I thought I had read that all of the first batch were accounted (270 ish). Very occasionally I check the other forums to see how newbies are tracking but there is very little chatter from the new owners sadly.

shape_shifter

Somehow I think that there were more than that in the first batch, or maybe it was correct and the second batch came quicker... Anyway from what I've seen, besides the original deal with the sponsors on CS and the coffee guy (is that who it was in QLD), everyone else is walking into normal retailers and picking themselves up a fair discount even without the machine being in stock. I don't know that the marketing has worked in the retailers with comments from HN being we're the official suppliers and no one else will have them to other HN stores not even knowing it exists. So much for all the crap with E61, they were doing exactly what the normal retailers have now done anyway!!!

Muscles

I picked up mine today and decided to sample some of the remaining Java blend from MyCuppa in it. The first shot was a bit of a gusher. I'm using the 18g VST basket and it pushed out 60ml in around 22 seconds - went from the cup straight to the sink without a taste. The second shot was better. I adjusted the Smart Grinder to it's finest grind setting and pulled 60ml in 26 seconds, had a taste and thought it wasn't bad - but it still went to the sink. 3rd shot was the money shot for me. 60ml in 28 seconds by adjusting tamp and leaving the grind where it was. Textured some milk and made my Marciato (trademark pending 🙂 ) by adding 100ml Milk and it was very, very good. 4th was a repeat of the 3rd with milk, just wanted to see if I could get the same results and I did. I am surprised how easy this machine is to use but I'll see how it goes as far as repeatability. I haven't changed any of the default settings yet but do plan to muck around with them soon enough. My first impressions: It's quieter than my EM6910, not by much but it is noticable. The steaming of the milk was soooo easy, anyone could do it I reckon. I've noticed the same as everyone else with the pressure gaugue - I get dead-on 9 bar with the rubber blind but I get a fluctuation from around 9.5 to around 10.5 while extracting but I can't complain about what is in the cup.

shape_shifter

Muscles your fluctuations are much less than the others I've read of, I'd say it may be a user problem rather than a machine problem for the others 🙂

Brett_H

AM and I set the smart grinder on it's finest and still couldnt choke the BFB. Kinda disappointing because I like a restricted shot and prefer to work bacwards from almost a choke to find the optimum setting. Perhaps Muscles, like the Smart Grinder we used you need a shim to give you that bit of extra head room for really fresh beans or lighter roasted beans. the grinder was fun to use but the sound of the motor under load as the grind became finer was a bit concerning. If you have any hassles you have the luxury of a good warranty to fall back on so enjoy!

Muscles

Hmmm, my smart grinder has already been shimmed (well, I added the smallest of the pack). That noise you mention - maybe I have mistaken that for metal on metal with the burrs??? It does also sound like what could be motor strain but I haven't heard metal on metal in a grinder to compare. I'd look for the rest of the shims and add another but I'll have the SJ soon enough and will then move the smart grinder on. As for the Breville and warranty, yes the 2 years is reassuring.

Muscles

AM, I ran the tests you requested and the results are as follows: SB = 60ml/25sec @8.7bar BDB = 60ml/22sec @8.2bar (Bar readings approx as there are obviously no decimal markings on the gague) Also I put the rubber blind back in the BDB SF basket but this time pushed it firmly in and made a very tight seal, the result was a reading of approx 11.8bar, I mustn't have had as adequate a seal the first time I checked or the basket was wet when I put it in.

Muscles

All about the numbers alright! So I think you are saying that mine has been set properly to 9bar hence the 8.7 reading with single floor (you mentioned you have tested but not what exactly you were testing for) Makes me happy to hear that IF I've understood it correctly. I have faith in Breville as a brand but this is a brand new product. So it's funny how there are a LOT of vocal others who have experienced similar. Is it a feature rather than a floor? Or is it a batch of gaugues? Or did Breville only test with DF baskets? Or do they know how to work the machine and we don't? I don't see how it's a user issue as Dennis is hinting to elsewhere but perhaps he is right. BUT, if it is user error why would Phil be adjusting machines? And is he adjusting the Gaugue or the OPV - I must have missed it if it was mentioned. I guess only time will tell.

UNM

Just to confirm my understanding, or possibly display my ignorance... Supposing my pump was capable of delivering one litre a minute at nine bar, the operation of the OPV would be far more critical, would it not? I assume one reason OPV's are less of an issue with small vibe pumps is the flow rate reduces under pressure. Took a look at that PDF on OPVs, none of them look like the one in my gaggia, which seems quite well designed, albeit small. Same basic operation though.

Muscles

I poured two doubles this morning and tasted both. First was good, second was better 🙂 The first pour =60ml/28sec but I didn't even look at the gague and for the second pour =60ml/31sec @9.5-9.8 slow dancing BTW - To me it's what's in the cup that counts and while I am posting measurements, timings and gague readings I am watching the pour and making my adjustments based on the pour until I get this grinder dialled in.

Muscles

AngerManagement wrote:

Which says that you managing the flow and pressure via the dose and grind..

Isn't that what we all do regardless of which machine we use?

shape_shifter

Muscles wrote:

Isn't that what we all do regardless of which machine we use?

LMAO it is if you have any idea about what you are doing. I love watching newbies with machines, either they get it eventually or not at all and that is where you see so many on the used market and you can bet those people either buy an automatic or go back to what they had !!!

Brett_H

shape_shifter wrote:

LMAO it is if you have any idea about what you are doing. I love watching newbies with machines, either they get it eventually or not at all and that is where you see so many on the used market and you can bet those people either buy an automatic or go back to what they had !!!

Me too! It's what I miss most about the other forum. None of them here I'm afraid. I think Muscles that you nailed it when you said "it's what's in the cup that matters." Thanks though for sharing your journey. I know I'm not alone when I say I read your posts with great interest and I really appreciate AM's OPV thread (even though I'll never understand it...)! ;D

shape_shifter

AM even the front cover of the Sunbeam instruction booklet says 'commercial design'. Inside 'just like a commercial machine, that would be used on a commercial'. I never once took the word 'commercial' into my decision. I guess in my reading of the information, I took the word commercial to mean about the fact that commercial machines can do shot and steam at the same time, the portafilter is the same size as commercial machines...NOT that it was or could perform like a commercial machine. To me either Breville has egg on it's face OR it's a harder machine to user for the average consumer than what they thought. As someone has said to me in my adventures with the EM6910, I've been able to get the hang of things fairly quickly...I'm producing some fantastic shots in a quicker time than what I thought I would be and seriously with the help of my manual grinder, maybe it's the Smart Grinders fault LOL

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