Dialling In/Seasoning Burrs

Muscles

So I got my Super Jolly today and I've spent the last 45 minutes trying to dial it in. I started out on the stock grind setting then went finer and then coarser and coarser again. I thought that setting was good. (I was pulling doubles all the while). From there I adjusted tamp pressure to try and get my 60mls in 30 seconds. BUT, it seems there is another force working against me as me tamping lighter results in a slower pour making rethink and do it again and again and again to no avail. Is this a seasoning issue that will settle after a short period letting me fine tune - please tell me it is. I noticed a bit of clumping on the first few doses but that seems to have almost solved itself.

So far I've pulled 30 doubles at 20-21g each go. With 7 second pre-infusion on the BDB, they have ranged from 60ml in 17sec to 25 ml in 40 seconds with 1 complete choke. I've tasted 4 of the shots, 2 were terrible, 1 so-so and the last of the 15 pours I took with me to the couch, about 30mls in 30 seconds with milk - not my normal drink but I liked it.

While it is a bit frustrating I must say I am also enjoying the challenge somewhat.

Oh yeah, and did I tell you this thing is BIG - the Mrs hasn't mentioned a single word about it.... YET.

Brett_H

I too have a big silver behemoth on the bench sporting 64mm burrs. I reckoned it stared o settle own after 1 kg and was very consistent after 5 kg. Just guestimation on my part but I do recall when the stars really started to align with that thing. After you've owned a real man's grinder it's hard to go back to a little domestic unit. ;D Congratulations!

mycuppa

Hi Marc, I'm going out on a limb here a little and fully expect a wave of disagreement from others. The whole seasoning thing is a little exaggerated IMHO........one of those many part-myths that gets embellished as time goes by. As someone who puts in new grinders to cafes pretty regularly and then sits there for many hours afterwards whilst they are getting used to the gear, I can say I've not encountered too many grinders that require seasoning. I'll restrict my comment to Compak grinders only. A week ago I put a new K10 Conical into a cafe - upgrading them from a K8. The one I tested beforehand had a problem with the doser sticking, so I had to run down to the supplier for an emergency changeover. Arrived at the cafe, brand new in box, unpacked, located and within 4 shots I managed to nail it, probably less than 200g of beans. Setting the auto-dose took a bit more as you expect needing to fill the doser quadrants. Perhaps I was lucky, or having done it many times before it just gets easier. Now, what I did notice over the next 3 hrs, the next day, 3 days later and again a week later is that the barista has managed to use it perfectly with the normal minor early morning, late afternoon ambient temp changes. Going through around 35kg in the last week, the barista said it was fine and had no weird symptoms described in other posts I've read about grinders needing seasoning. This being the 5th time now where I've taken a new grinder to an experienced barista and it's just worked very well to plan. Where it has'nt worked so well is if the barista is not used to the grinder - then it can be very interesting indeed. I also happen to use new grinders in my roastery, generally before they might be placed at a customer. I have also experienced some weird things when it's a grinder I'm not used to working with. I've formed the opinion that on some grinders, the seasoning thing may be more about having something new and not being completely used to operating it rather than the mythical instability as a result of needing some "bedding in". I could be wrong, but Marc keep on plugging away and you will get it under control. Walk away a few times and then come back - sometimes I get myself tied in knots and the best thing is to take a break and clear your head.

Muscles

See, this is what I like about these forums. One minute I have the answer I wanted and the next minute I have a contradictory one. What does this change - not a lot really as I still need to soldier on. Thank you both for your replies and hopefully I will get a few more opinions in the mix. The most frustrating part was watching 2x300gm bags of nicely roasted beans go down the sink 🙁 I am sure though it will be well worth it when I finally get it right 🙂

Lacehim

Seeing as your BDB is new, and your grinder in new I think it will all settle down as you get to know your grinder & machine better. Just have fun and enjoy the experience. 🙂 There are lots of variable as you know, keeping you dose and tamp consistant will help you dial it in. Don't be too worried about the nailing the whole 60ml in 30sec bit. I've had fantastic coffee that's gone for 40secs and prefer 40-50ml pulled from a double. Just play, taste and enjoy.

Brett H wrote:

After you've owned a real man's grinder it's hard to go back to a little domestic unit.

I went from a big cafe sized K6 to a Vario. Personally I can't taste the difference, the size is much better for a domestic setting and I'm a happy man. It's quiet, easy to use and less messy than my old K6. But maybe I'm a wierdo, who knows.

Muscles

I've spent another hour 40 odd minutes and realize it has to be me. I'll continue in the morning. Thanks for your input everyone 🙂

Ronin

I think this

mycuppa wrote:

The whole seasoning thing is a little exaggerated IMHO........one of those many part-myths that gets embellished as time goes by.

and this

Lacehim wrote:

Seeing as your BDB is new, and your grinder in new I think it will all settle down as you get to know your grinder & machine better. Just have fun and enjoy the experience. 🙂

sum up the 'settleing in period'. When metal is sharpened it has a burr on the edge, but is removed quickly if not at the factory.

beanflying

A little of this seasoning chat thing comes from the bigger conicals of recent times in particular the E versions more than the doesered versions. Typically the E's become more repeatable (still far from perfect) in dose quantity after a few kg's. There is a thread on home barista from memory with some very close up views of Mazzer conical burrsets being fairly rough finished when new. Will try and find it. If your getting decent tasting shots out of a new grinder at home drink them would be my call, different in a high volume cafe where you need the grinder at peak from scratch 🙂

Ronin

Good call BF. My Kony E grind hasn't changed that much I believe, but the time in which it grinds has shortened. 10ish sec down to about 7.5ish depending on usual stuff

RichardM

I think it is the person that needs seasoning... I have a super jolly amd just changed my espresso machine. Took a good week to get it "dialed in", which only comes down to me because it was second hand. Changing grinder and machine at the same time would take a lot of getting used to and might feel like the equipment settling in.

shape_shifter

I'm going mental trying to get the EM0480 right. I'm just converting some videos and I'll upload them and post :-[

Muscles

RichardM wrote:

I think it is the person that needs seasoning... I have a super jolly amd just changed my espresso machine. Took a good week to get it "dialed in", which only comes down to me because it was second hand. Changing grinder and machine at the same time would take a lot of getting used to and might feel like the equipment settling in.

This is what I have come to realize and throw the VST 18g basket in the mix and.... fun times ahead

Ronin wrote:

Good call BF. My Kony E grind hasn't changed that much I believe, but the time in which it grinds has shortened. 10ish sec down to about 7.5ish depending on usual stuff

So it will get even faster?? COOL! 😃 The first mistake I made was ignore the manual and set the dose amount before getting the grind right. Only took a couple of minutes before I realised how backward that was and have been making smaller and smaller adjustments to the grind over the past 2 days. To make matters worse, I am now on the third type of beans - and each time I get close on the grind I run out 🙁 Going to roast 1.25kg today so the next week ahead will be covered. Yeah I'll have to make small adjustments as the beans progress over the days but hopefully won't need to make any big adjustments.

Ronin

That's a dbl ristretto grind too. Should be a little faster for espresso grind I imagine.

shape_shifter

Ok here are two that I did today using the Spong. First done with 18 grams http://youtu.be/dxMNwy2lpIo Second done with 19 grams http://youtu.be/-DJXus__qlA I can't get anywhere near these with the EM0480 yet...long way to go!!!

beanflying

Muscles wrote:

The first mistake I made was ignore the manual and set the dose amount before getting the grind right. Only took a couple of minutes before I realised how backward that was and have been making smaller and smaller adjustments to the grind over the past 2 days. To make matters worse, I am now on the third type of beans - and each time I get close on the grind I run out 🙁

Yep that won't help 😉 As I put in the Robur thread "O" started, time is only for minimising waste and making life easier when you have the rest sorted sorted. I find with my K10 on a timer only 0.1-0.2 seconds maximum change is about all it needs with most bean changes (grind 4-5.5 depending on baskets) and I chase the brew with changing grind. All this means is that I use a fairly constant weight of beans when I am running commercially. When I changed my DRM flat burrs over I just drank them after dialling in initially, tasted fine and even had some notes too 8)

Brett_H

I am happy to acknowledge that the running in/seasoning of my grinder burrs was actually seasoning me. Upon reflection I didn't notice much difference from the first shots to the last shots of the first kg run through he machine. I just remember adjusting the fineness less frequently. This may also be attributed o the Merlos beans settling down/aging.