Breville's new dual boiler machine BES900

Brett_H

AngerManagement wrote:

The issue is the lack of any real support.. A couple of posts and more and then this from a user (attempting to do their best to comment and support other users) ******** Welcome among the BDB owners. There is discussion about the pressure gauge earlier in this string. Mine also shows 12 while I get great coffee. The machines are factory set at 9 bar, however the gauges are not particularly accurate. We cannot make any pressure adjustment. It beats me why there is a gauge if it is of no particular use. ********* Someone needs to tell them it is not the gauge or send them the link to here :o !!!! AND That with a little effort from Breville, they can enhance their coffee experience... In the short or maybe even long term, they miss out... Why is Breville NOT being proactive about this... A great chance to win Brownie points, but they keep quite... Ummmm, makes one wonder what else they might know about and be keeping quite ? Ummmm, Why the delay to the USA

Given that some of the early units found their way into specialty coffee retailers I'm sure we'll see proactive actions from those guys in relation to their customers. We can't expect the same from the big retailers but that is why many have shopped at smaller specialty retailers: peace of mind and excellent proactive after-sales service. I can't speak highly enough of Merlos and Chris at Bezzera here in Brisbae for their attention to detail, passionate service and outstanding product knowledge... I don't imagine that the service is any less down south given the competitive nature contemporary retail. You are spot on AM, an opportunity for Brownie points presents but not for Breville alone.

Brett_H

AngerManagement wrote:

Thanks Brett... Special deals on the BDB at about $1290 ? And for $199 one can own the Smart grinder so X-Mas should be a great time for super specials. However, it is NOT Always about being right.... ie. OPV stated performance and what users saw and who / what to blame.... It was about, there is an issue being raised; so lets get on top of it and get it sorted and if need be, an action plan to address those units with a real issue. Sounds like a way forward to me... Ops, not every one saw it that way :o However, due to the assumptions by many and SS stuff by others, those ones who spoke up; have been treated with little regard for their actual "real world and relevant engineering experience". There are a few people that I have dealt with over the years that I could not abide by and nor would I have a drink with them.... But my god, I respected their actual technical and or other skill sets... Coffee seems to be more about Twitter / FB and Social standing and Name dropping, rather than real world hands on... But now we move on... Must go and do my training ASAP... "MayBel says I am too technical. "

I completely agree! Web2.0 has served some businesses very well but the danger is that words that could be delivered with a good humored wink, can seem cold and harsh on a web page. You and I have seen first hand that the BDB is potentially a good little domestic machine; but, when a transparent approach to marketing is promised and then only partly delivered (how many posts and PM's have been deleted that could have been argued intelligently instead of hidden from view) or in some cases delivered with vitriol and disdain: I find myself irrationally hard pressed to recommend this machine in favor of pld favorites Silvia and Lelit. Sure, I'm not selling machines every day but I'm asked for advice on a weekly basis due to the nature of my work and my obviously unhealthy coffee addiction. Web2.0 is an amazing innovation to modern communication and advertising but the results can often be contrary to the intention. SS producing shots that look like liquid gold from a Sunbeam surely can't be Breville's marketing intention. The owners of these fine machines will prove to be it's saviours. Photos like Ros' and positive owners comments in these threads will help this little Aussie take it to the world. Unless there is a problem with the design for 110v in which case they're stuffed. Aussies are the best innovators and inventors, so this would be unlikely. More likely would be increased cost pressure from China and currency issues along with slowing discretionary spending in the US. Sometimes the time is just not right.... exhibit A: My shares portfolio 🙁

Vinitasse

Cuppacoffee wrote:

AM, I think you are right,... Cheers Den

I think you should frame that one AM 😉

Cuppacoffee

Quote from: Vinitasse: I think you should frame that one AM Maybe I should frame it. ;D Quote from: Angermanagement There are others more worth while Yes, I guess we can all say that. 😉

Muscles

Cuppacoffee wrote:

AM, I think you are right, which is why I contacted Breville today and provided the following information on CS, and now here. Having had several discussions with Breville regarding the higher than expected gauge readings on some of the 900 series of machines, I have some further information from Breville. 1. The initial run of 900's were all calibrated using a scace device to 9 bar whilst in production, plus or minus .5 bar. In the real world, some machines that were calibrated this way gave high readings eg. 12 bar. 2. Machines that are now being manufactured for here and the overseas market, are being calibrated during production with a block filter instead of the scace. They will read either on or close to 9 bar in the real world. 3. If you own a machine that read high, then: a) It will not harm the machine b) It can be adjusted to 9 bar and is approximately a 5 minute job. No parts are replaced during the process. c) Breville are ensuring at least one major service centre in each city is capable of performing the work. This is already in place in Sydney and Brisbane with others to follow soon. Please call Breville if you have a machine that has a high reading and you would like to arrange to have the adjustment made. And please accept my sincere apologies if I misled owners or potential buyers in any way. FWIW, the machine I have at home reads high, yet makes great coffee. Cheers Den

Sorry Den but you forgot d) You can buy a piece of cardboard on CS that was designed by a sponsor and built by a member to be stuck over the gauge 😉 Also, I assume you have used machines with both correctly and incorrectly set OPV's - what difference have YOU noticed??

Muscles

Brett H wrote:

Given that some of the early units found their way into specialty coffee retailers I'm sure we'll see proactive actions from those guys in relation to their customers.

Umm, like what? I doubt they'll be telling owners to go and get the BDB's OPV's adjusted - more like if it tastes OK leave it... Units from the Majors and the Specialties both had the same problem (bench test or not) and regardless of where you bought it you need to get it fixed by Breville. FYI, David Jones offered a no questions refund or swap but I chose to go to Phil (Breville) as it was a very easy fix.

AngerManagement wrote:

The positive outcome, is that there appears to now be some that have recognised and acknowledged an opportunity for improvement in a product... The winners will be the users and that is what it should be about and has been my focus from the outset. The fact that many are yet to understand the operation of an OPV and that the gauge is quite accurate, is some what further down the road. Muscles.. Have ya moved hose yet and got ya system up and running ? Is ya wife all OK ? Will be in your area on Monday ... Again 😃

Hi AM, got the move done (just) and will be sleeping early tonight! The wife had it easy, she had the baby shower on while I was lifting... I moved the BDB and SJ first so we could have espresso breaks during the move and I'm glad I did 😉 I've now noticed what a difference ambient temp and humidity can have in the cup and I am surprised how much of a difference there is between the two kitchens. I had to adjust my grind and dose a bit coarser and smaller a few times to get it right at the new place. Give me a bit more notice next time you are in the area and we can go for a cup...

Cuppacoffee

Muscles wrote:

Sorry Den but you forgot d) You can buy a piece of cardboard on CS that was designed by a sponsor and built by a member to be stuck over the gauge 😉 Also, I assume you have used machines with both correctly and incorrectly set OPV's - what difference have YOU noticed??

No Muscles, I didn't forget. I've apologised once and did so sincerely. It's your choice to either accept it or not. In response to your question, yes, I have used both and personally, I was able to reproduce very similar if not the same results, using different grind settings and dose. I was however inclined to think the machine set at 9 bar had more body than the other, though it wasn't a blind test and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Muscles

Cuppacoffee wrote:

No Muscles, I didn't forget. I've apologised once and did so sincerely. It's your choice to either accept it or not.

Accepted.

In response to your question, yes, I have used both and personally, I was able to reproduce very similar if not the same results, using different grind settings and dose. I was however inclined to think the machine set at 9 bar had more body than the other, though it wasn't a blind test and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Interesting, I had good results with the 11+ bar but noticeably better results at 9 bar, both with taste and body. Did you notice the difference in machine noise? With the BDB set at 9 bar it creates more vibration and reverb than I was expecting but am happy to live with...

Cuppacoffee

Thankyou Marc, I do appreciate that. If I ever get this new shop up and running you'll have to come in and have a coffee on the house. Can't say that I noticed a difference in sound - then again, I wasn't listening out for it. Back re the 9 bar/12 bar issue, I suppose I didn't see it to be of great concern because many (maybe the majority) of imported Italian semi commercial machines are set at 12 bar out of the box. Perhaps the main reason we adjust them is because of local expectations, and that we don't tend to use much robusta. If a machine used in Italy were set at 9 bar, it would likely be considered faulty or in need of a higher set OPV. I'm not trying to make excuses. I was at fault for not pressing the issue earlier. Ultimately, I think that at 9 bar, the Breville and most other machines are more forgiving of grind and dose than if they are set at a higher pressure. Ergo a better extraction. That's just my opinion - I really don't have any hard evidence except my observations.

UNM

I wonder if the pressure adjustment will be to produce a 9 bar extraction pressure, a 9 bar gauge pressure, or something else. This could depend on who is doing the adjustment, but hopefully Breville will have a clearly documented adjustment procedure to at least ensure consistency. Just curious. Muscles - any idea how yours was adjusted?

Muscles

I have come to conclude that many people whom we all assume to have a thorough working knowledge and massive industry experience in fact do not, hence they try to use any owner's comments as way to discredit the owner themself and enhance the image of the machine. If I had not mentioned the "placebo effect" in my earlier post I highly doubt it would have been mentioned elsewhere. Was it good before, sure. Is it better post OPV adjustment/correction - DAMN RIGHT IT IS.

shape_shifter

Oh what and the registration date of a business is only in 2009!!! I'm not a bitch really, just say it like I see it!!!

Brett_H

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297810_10150326530993686_21370828685_7890290_1371970610_n.jpg This is some pretty darn fine blackboard art! Why would anyone in the modern design world operate on a blackboard unless it was a photographical nightmare (for the PR team) to do otherwise. I see the box of chalk but why are there white board markers? Let's play insert the caption: 1. "I'm a little teapot....."

mcknightp

Brett H wrote:

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297810_10150326530993686_21370828685_7890290_1371970610_n.jpg This is some pretty darn fine blackboard art! Why would anyone in the modern design world operate on a blackboard unless it was a photographical nightmare (for the PR team) to do otherwise. I see the box of chalk but why are there white board markers? Let's play insert the caption: 1. "I'm a little teapot....."

I think this post sums up the culture & mentality of this forum in general. Pretty disappointing when an innovative Aussie company takes on presenting its home grown products to the likes of Intelligentsia, Stumptown, Counter Culture, Third Rail, Joes, Dallis Bros in their own front yard & gets lampooned for it. For the record all the above were blown away by Breville's approach, technology and the 900's performance. Cheers, Phil

UNM

Brett H wrote:

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297810_10150326530993686_21370828685_7890290_1371970610_n.jpg This is some pretty darn fine blackboard art! Why would anyone in the modern design world operate on a blackboard unless it was a photographical nightmare (for the PR team) to do otherwise. I see the box of chalk but why are there white board markers?

My initial reaction was that he must be in America. I worked in Silicon Valley for years and was surprised how common blackboards were. White boards were common too, but coming from the UK, I hadn't seen a blackboard in years. Perhaps it is just a cultural thing, but as long as they are FFP ( Fit For Purpose), why not use them? Phil - as referenced elsewhere in this thread among others, sometimes fine nuances get missed in posts on a forum. I could be wrong, but don't think Brett's post was trying to lampoon breville. Rather, it seemed to be pointing to the irony of the rather low tech presentation medium. That's my 2c for now.

UNM

Bit OT, but I actually have a slate board and slate pencil at home, as used to be used in schools (before my time). Back on topic: I am still curious how the bdb pressure adjustment is done. Depending on process followed, some owners could end up with brew pressure substantially below 9 bar.

Brett_H

UNM wrote:

Phil - as referenced elsewhere in this thread among others, sometimes fine nuances get missed in posts on a forum. I could be wrong, but don't think Brett's post was trying to lampoon breville. Rather, it seemed to be pointing to the irony of the rather low tech presentation medium. That's my 2c for now.

Oh Dear

Koffee_Kosmo

We at Crema have freedom of speech My personal opinion is that we should let all posts stand on there merits Explanations or clarifications can be easily sought as some have differing thought patterns, both in the writing and in the reading Further to the explanation given above My interpretation as I see it is, in the photo you have a blackboard - and as a contradiction whiteboard markers available to be used What one does not see in the photo and I assume that there is a whiteboard somewhere close & ready to be wheeled in, hence the available marking pens Easy as KK

Intense_Coffee

Besides which, when it comes to Sales and/or training delivery, a variety of technologies is often used and recommended to vary the delivery and maintain interest. In addition it can also be dependant on what is on offer at the venue in question, so having alternatives is being better prepared. While I'm not sure what the circumstances were in terms of the photo in questions, it seems to have caught everyones attention, which was probably its intention.

beanflying

mcknightp wrote:

I think this post sums up the culture & mentality of this forum in general. Pretty disappointing when an innovative Aussie company takes on presenting its home grown products to the likes of Intelligentsia, Stumptown, Counter Culture, Third Rail, Joes, Dallis Bros in their own front yard & gets lampooned for it. For the record all the above were blown away by Breville's approach, technology and the 900's performance. Cheers, Phil

Phil, As a moderator of this forum an a fairly long term member elsewhere. This forum has a fairly liberal policy toward being open and allowing reasonable comment on product/companies be they positive or negative. We also have a generally fairly strong policy on not being bullied or coerced by companies into censorship. Your input as always has/is been welcomed and you are welcome to put your companies views politely and respectfully of other members here always. My personal view is unlike elsewhere all views are welcome and dissenting from that view is fine but don't make it personal. I suggest if you have a problem with a post or the forum policies then you take it up with either the Moderators or Admin in private would be far more appropriate. cheers Tim

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