Good cafe staff a dying race?

eatmedia · November 2007

Hi guys,

In my role at eatmedia, i speak with over 30 cafes per day and one question i am constantly asked is: "do you know of any reliable people looking for work?"

Two things i would like to know are:

How are you guys finding your staff?

How do you manage to find reliable cafe staff?

any tips would be greatly appreciated so that i can pass on the right advice.

askthecoffeeguy · November 2007

There's definitely a skill shortage in the industry, and only one in four people have the right disposition to be 'people persons' to work in hospitality - so its worth bearing this in mind when going through the recruitment process If you can find someone with the right disposition - even if they are unskilled - you are better off hiring them and then investing time in training them up yourself So that's my advice: hire the right person regardless of skill sets, and invest time an staff development and training Easier said than done, but at the end of the day its a lot less tiresome and more cost effective than continuously advertising and looking for mr or mrs right! Cheers, Pat

psaigh · November 2007

I agree tirelessly. I get at least one or two phone calls every week from different people asking if i know any good barista's who are looking for work. And i agree with pat. All these cafe's are looking for a complete package. Great personality, works fast and efficiant, impeccable coffee skills, trustworthy with a strong work ethic whose availability is 24/7 (even if they only want to hire them for 3 hour shifts to get them through the busy periods). The truth is i do have a handful of barista's i know who do fit the above requirements, but i've usually already 'pimped' them out to some other cafe

Look for someone who has the right attitude and is trustworthy first and foremost. If they have any other skills great, that's a bonus. But anything lacking can be taught. If you need a good staff member now you really should have hired somebody 3 months ago. As for keeping them, paying them well is always a good start. Maybe it's an adelaide thing because i've been offered decent salaries interstate but cafe owners are just so damn tight over here. I know good barista's who were getting just over $10 an hour! Needless to say they didn't stay at that job long. However $$$ are not the most important thing... by a long measure. I still work one day a week at one particular cafe, for a lot less money than i've been offered elsewhere, because of the culture there. I think it's important (as an owner) to show your dedication to your product/service. To be employing the best methods you know of, the best machinery you can afford, and fostering the kind of environment that reaks of passion and excitement about coffee. Get your staff trying different coffee's, order some Cup of Excellence, purchase from interstate/overseas, from you competitors. Let them know what's out there and what coffee can be! IMO it's ultimately the culture which keeps good staff around (though odd little bonuses don't hurt every now and again ;D) David schomer talks well of this in his artical "Creating a Culture of Excellence" http://www.espressovivace.com/archives/9607scr.html

coffeedrinker · November 2007

From a customers point of view, try employing people on skill rather than looks etc. See if they can make a coffee. We customers dont really care about false smiles and looks, we care about the quality and getting what we ask for. In melbourne, there seems to be alot of cafe owners who are to rapt up in themselves, big egos, no service and if someone wants a warm coffee give them one because I am not interested in Latte art. Also, if you want quality staff, try paying proper wages. This is what happens in the business world. I really think cafe owners need to wake up to themselves.

askthecoffeeguy · November 2007

Hi coffeedrinker, thanks for your post. I think there are a couple of things to consider here, though. Firstly, there is a very high turnover of staff in hospitality generally, as its not generally considered to be a career choice, so finding good staff, and getting them to stay for longer than it takes for them to finish there commerce degree (or whatever) is quite a challenge Cafes are opening up (and closing down) faster than it is possible to keep up with them. It seems just about every new apartment block has its own boutique cafe to service it nowdays There are simply more cafes than there is demand, and less staff to go around as a result Which is not necessarily a bad thing in the long run, as the competitors will survive, and hopefully improve at their game Also, I'm not sure if I'm the only cafe owner who has noticed this, but, surprisingly, those hospitality staff who I've encountered who have come along, singing their own praises about how good they are, and commanding the big bucks, almost never (at least not in my experience) seem to be worth the money: too much ego involved, not enough talent I'm also curious to know who it is you are talking about when it comes to cafe owners intentionally not doing the right thing? I know plenty of cafe owners who are very decent people, and who go out of their way to nurture and develop their staff I for instance have paid for 'stress leave' days off for staff members when they weren't entitled to them, paid for staff to get a professional massage to relieve tension, contributed to the cost of staff dinners, etc - and I'm certain that I am not the only one Cafe owners are also invariably the ones who have to cover shifts when staff call in sick with only a few hours notice, or when staff sometimes walk out in the middle of service because the they cant cut the pace Many cafe owners also sacrifice quality time with their family to fill in when its extra busy, and spend many hours doing additional administration work on top od a 50 hr working week That is not to say that there aren't any shonky operators out there, just trying to make a quick buck, there are! I've probably worked for half of them at some stage in my life! But that's all part of the learning curve, and the hospitality apprenticeship, and sometime you have to go through the shite to get to the shanola! Also, its about individuals taking responsibility for their own actions, and when this comes to cafe staff, this means raising the bar, and setting high standards, and not compromising or settling for second best Cheers, ACG

GrindOnDemand · November 2007

From a customers point of view, try employing people on skill rather than looks etc. See if they can make a coffee. We customers dont really care about false smiles and looks, we care about the quality and getting what we ask for. In melbourne, there seems to be alot of cafe owners who are to rapt up in themselves, big egos, no service and if someone wants a warm coffee give them one because I am not interested in Latte art. Also, if you want quality staff, try paying proper wages. This is what happens in the business world. I really think cafe owners need to wake up to themselves.

G'day coffeedrinker ... I think Pat's detailed reply addressed most of your points ... quite convincingly. Incidentally, what's your field of work/source of a buck, so I can post my perceptions of your field of work/source of a buck?

fattylateplease · November 2007

Pay more for good staff. Why accept $14 making coffee when you can get $24 - $30 in another profession. There is a a big whine these days about skills shortage but on the otherhand, who is putting up their hands to train staff?

askthecoffeeguy · November 2007

I train at my joint all the time -its the only way to keep on top of your game and one step ahead of the competition...

DoubleRistretto · November 2007

Coffeedrinker's got a point. Pat may be a great employeer, but there are plenty out there who're more interested in their next BMW than selling a quality coffee and developing their staff. dR

askthecoffeeguy · November 2007

I agree that there are plenty of shonky operators out there - all the more reason to give them as wide a berth as possible. Also, in a competitive marketplace, customers are becoming better educated, and are developing more refined palates, which means that there is room at the top for improvement, and that those service providers who cut corners, and / or who don't employ world's best practice, and who don't invest in and properly train there staff, are going to find themselves increasingly competing for a dwindling marketshare. Good luck to them, I wouldn't want to be competing at the lower end of the service chain, even if it meant that I could be driving a BMW

nzroaster · November 2007

I agree that there are plenty of shonky operators out there - all the more reason to give them as wide a berth as possible. Also, in a competitive marketplace, customers are becoming better educated, and are developing more refined palates, which means that there is room at the top for improvement, and that those service providers who cut corners, and / or who don't employ world's best practice, and who don't invest in and properly train there staff, are going to find themselves increasingly competing for a dwindling marketshare. Good luck to them, I wouldn't want to be competing at the lower end of the service chain, even if it meant that I could be driving a BMW

Spot on, its the attitude of the owner that filters down through management and down to the dishie or broom boy. Somebody mentioned Schomers Culture of Excellence, that hits the nail on the head. You just need to look at the popularity of cheap coffee in the market place (brisbane is undergoing a price war of $14-$18 a kilo) to see what the attitude of the average cafe owner is focussed on, and the respective cups they serve. If you look at the few places around Brisbane doing great coffee, with long term staff, they have created a culture of excellence. Staff enjoy working for you if you enjoy working with them. In saying that, good staff are hard to find. We have a high turnover of staff at our cafes. But for every 5 passers through we have, we get 1 keeper. And this is how we have ended up with great staff, by hanging on to the people who fit in to your philosophy of what you want to achieve. P.S. I will happily accept a BMW from any willing doners.

admin · November 2007

Doner, as in doner kebab? Don't worry NZ - it's Friday afternoon; you keep making great coffee and i'll correct the odd spelling mistake! -A

fattylateplease · November 2007

Forget staff, I'd say good cafes are a dying race. I blame franchises.

nzroaster · November 2007

Forget staff, I'd say good cafes are a dying race. I blame franchises.

Agreed, and non-franchises where the owners have that same "its just another bussiness" attitude. On the surface, the problem is that franchises are an easy way to get into the industry without doing your time in it. Not all, but most, do not have the passion that somebody who has been in the industry has had. The frachise "rules" are the quick fix to this, but the main problem is that everybody wants to open a cafe these days, but very few can look past bottom line figures to lift their game.

beangroundanddrunk · November 2007

Interesting responses from some of the 'consumer' posters to this thread... I think its right that if as a cafe owner we pay say $15 an hr for a barista we have to expect that person to not necessarily stay long or see the employment as a Career when often they can get paid better money for less skilled jobs elsewhere... That said, if wages were at a level in ALL cafes (and I include the franchises in this who pay their staff peanuts under AWAs and Enterprise Agreements) that made the job financially attractive, then the end product would certainly end up costing significantly more than the $3 most consumers are prepared to part with for a small coffee.... During the past 5 months, raw cost of goods has gone up significantly (milk being the main increasing commodity when it comes to coffee), and yet there is still a 'glass ceiling' when it comes to take away and eat in coffee prices. However, its not just coffee.... look at the near 10% increase in the wholesale price of a can of Coca Cola and yet as consumers we still expect that to cost around $2.80. I believe its about time we started paying baristas more as it is a highly skilled and unfortunately undervalued occupation.... at the same time however, I think consumers have to start paying a realistic price for what is in many cafes an artisan gourmet drink, created with flair, dedication and passion, which reflects the amount of time, effort, training, and cost of raw goods cafe owners have to commit to in producing the product and servicing the public at large.

fattylateplease · November 2007

Gloria Jeans wants to pay full-time baristas $20,000 Saw it on seek.com Now that is really an insult.

Unknown · November 2007

Gloria Jeans wants to pay full-time baristas $20,000 Saw it on seek.com Now that is really an insult.

That's why pimply 15 year olds work for them...and one of the reasons that there coffee is sooooo good...Just don't drink the stuff ::).... Bottom line is that you gets what you pays for....

One-a-day · November 2007

That can't be right unless it's a sign of things to come, unskilled migrants,Phillipino,chinese ect ect that are prepared to work for peanuts will be the work force of the future. The mining boom in WA has created a shortage of pizza makers and they can't attract staff even when they offer upwards of $20 an hour to make flamin pizza, I'd do it if I was still single. So they are getting in workers from overseas

askthecoffeeguy · November 2007

not naming names but I know of a coffee franchise that pays its unskilled international student workers $7 per hour, and they are not alone as far as that goes pretty hard to compete in a price war at the bottom end of the scale - which is why i'm aiming for the top!

eatmedia · November 2007

"Good cafe staff aren't only a dying race but good cafes are definatley dying in the CBD." This is very sad to hear for the industry on a whole. If you look back about 16 years ago when coffee prices were around $1.50. And then you look at the inflation of such commodities like milk, throw in the increasing rental prices plus any other costs of a cafe / business in general such as insurance etc... A cup of coffee should really be around $5.00 per 8oz cup if the price were to incrementally increase with everything involved in producing it. What's worse is I have seen cafes giving coffees away for a week in order to boost sales, the fact that that coffee was something reminiscent of watered down pencil sharpenings is besides the point. If people are out there hiring staff for $7.00 then sooner or later a good barista will have to really fight for thier job. This could mean there is a large differentiation between a real cafe and those who are just serving brown liquid caffeine. When I walk to work and still see 30 people lined up to get the $2.00 large 12oz coffee from some franchise chains i don't think that there are that many people who care what their caffeine tastes like. They say that some of the best coffee in the world is made in this country, due to the large amount of passionate migrants who moved here over 40years ago, they then passed the skills of great baristas down the line to those who are making great coffee today. This is simply bastardising the industry with new migrants who will do anything for a buck and continue paying unskilled staff so that they can make worse and worse coffee just so that "cafes" / chains can continue to offer dirt cheap dirty coffee. It wont be long before the passion of great real cafe owners dies and they realise that there are better ways to earn a living then struggling to provide quality coffee to our great nation.

coffeedrinker · November 2007

From a customers point of view, try employing people on skill rather than looks etc. See if they can make a coffee. We customers dont really care about false smiles and looks, we care about the quality and getting what we ask for. In melbourne, there seems to be alot of cafe owners who are to rapt up in themselves, big egos, no service and if someone wants a warm coffee give them one because I am not interested in Latte art. Also, if you want quality staff, try paying proper wages. This is what happens in the business world. I really think cafe owners need to wake up to themselves.

G'day coffeedrinker ... I think Pat's detailed reply addressed most of your points ... quite convincingly. Incidentally, what's your field of work/source of a buck, so I can post my perceptions of your field of work/source of a buck?

Mines Graphic Design and yes the industry is worse than yours but just better pay. Wasnt having a go at the industry just certain people who wont give customers what they want. I like hot coffees on cold mornings better than latte art. Customer service seems to be rather poor in Melbourne in many business areas.

coffeedrinker · November 2007

$20,000 is a joke. Thats poverty wages. I dont go to franchises, I only try to support local businesses as this is what drives the economy. Plus the service is better.

Didi · February 2008

Hi Everyone (newbie) I have been in the industry for 15 years now and i must say that its WORK ETHIC the younger generation seems to be lacking. I don't think it is just the hospitality game i believe it to be in every industry. I remember back in the day when i first started there was no such thing as "i can't work weekends". Kids these days dont show up, dont call, they text message, as i said lack of morale. Hospitality is a tough game and now they have too many options and an easier job to go to because everyone is experiancing the same problem. Didi

psaigh · February 2008

Damn GenY's!! >:(

askthecoffeeguy · February 2008

I'm an X-man myself!

psaigh · February 2008

I'm an X-man myself!

...Sooo many ways to take that!? ;D

Didi · February 2008

Hmm

fattylateplease · February 2008

Hi Everyone (newbie) I have been in the industry for 15 years now and i must say that its WORK ETHIC the younger generation seems to be lacking. I don't think it is just the hospitality game i believe it to be in every industry. Hospitality is a tough game and now they have too many options and an easier job to go to because everyone is experiancing the same problem. Didi

Someone is turning into an oldie. The bloody younger generation. Been going on for centuries. Perhaps Generation Y are just smarter. Life isn't all about work and yes there are easier jobs with better pay. You can't expect people to live on $13 an hour for the rest of their lives. That is plain delusional.

askthecoffeeguy · February 2008

I agree pay rates for coffee makers need to increase at the same time so too do baristi need to be able to multi-task and to be able to embrace a wider role than that of just making coffee, in order to value-add to a business

mellowyellowmini · March 2008

I am a great barista & cafe staff, but i am finding it near impossible to find a cafe that is looking for a good barista and meets my own standards, they are: I expect the coffee machine to be well taken care of and properly maintained. I expect the grinder to be clean, and void of stale/rotten oils in the hopper. I expect a tamp (this, i have found it'sn as easy as i expected, and now bring my own tamp to trials) and most importantly I expect properly sized milk jugs. I quit my job last week as the owners were splendid, the team was fun, the pace was perfect, but the manager was misogynistic & crude, and I had had enough. Subsequently, i have done 5 trials, and have gotten every job that i applied for. But none of these places REALLY expect excellence, they claim that they expect and want good quality coffee, but when i get behind the machine i find jugs that make, like 8 cups of coffee at a time, and the manager tells me this jug will be my best friend. I also find 10 second pours. This is unacceptable to me. I don't mind working in such and making some MAJOR changes to force them to be at my standard, but i expect to get paid much more for that. Ideally, i would like to find a place that already has a great set up & passion, because i'm tired of arguing with these cafes that have such poor standards... I think that they figure they've got customers, and they come back, so why change? why invest the money into getting the machine properly serviced and the couple seconds more that it would take to make some superb coffee. I'm almost thinking of giving up and looking for a coffee rep job or something. Could any of you offer some advice to finding a place that meets my standards? I'm in Melbourne, City, and am willing to travel for the right place. sorry about the rant, just very frustrated.

takeaim · March 2008

http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/worldregional/australasia/354338 Try that link, Jerry has a Robur/FB80 combo

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