wiping out basket between shots....yay or nay?

sistabarista · February 2012

Hi all!

I have started a new job, which I'm loving but having to adapt to a few new processes and let some old habits die....
Professional baristas: after you have emptied out your puck and are preparing for a new shot, obviously you will flush the group handle and head to remove old grinds...how many of you then wipe out the basket with a clean cloth before dosing? I know some cafes do and some don't....if you do, why? and if you don't, why?? Some think it's unhygeinic - I'm still trying to decide what I think. The new boss has specified absolutely no wiping, only flushing with water.

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2012

on 1330052329:

Hi all! I have started a new job, which I'm loving but having to adapt to a few new processes and let some old habits die.... Professional baristas: after you have emptied out your puck and are preparing for a new shot, obviously you will flush the group handle and head to remove old grinds...how many of you then wipe out the basket with a clean cloth before dosing? I know some cafes do and some don't....if you do, why? and if you don't, why?? Some think it's unhygienic - I'm still trying to decide what I think. The new boss has specified absolutely no wiping, only flushing with water.

There is always a risk of cross contamination when wiping anything in a food prep area environment And for that reason I say flush only In fact there is (from memory) a whole section on it in your OH&S manual KK

blanyon · February 2012

I wouldnt worry too much about bacterial cross contamination (hot water would take care of most nasties). The issue for me would be a damp basket which could affect the coffee bed. This is very unscientific just a theory!! Any reason for the banning of wiping? Brett

sistabarista · February 2012

on 1330062560:

Many men have issues with their Buts and Groin :stir :stir :stir

And this is a new revelation how???? :rofl: :stir I have a problem with the whole cloth thing in general - people I have worked with in the past found my OCD unbearable!!.... :o I like to have a colour code system for cloths, which I hope most places do?

on 1330061509:

The issue for me would be a damp basket which could affect the coffee bed. This is very unscientific just a theory!!

I tend to agree, it seems to me that having a mostly dry, clean (supposedly) basket before loading would make a nicer extraction. I understand the bacterial thing but I mean using a microfibre cloth which is designated for this and this only! You can get ones that have a clip which attach to the bottom of the grinder so it CAN'T be used for anything else. Anyways, I didn't think my first shift was a good time to question the process, but in time I'll bring it up

mycuppa · February 2012

2-step process I teach my customers - and personally I don't care if it's right or wrong, it works really well for me. 1. Run a quick shot/flush without the portafilter locked into the group head to rinse any residue from the shower screen (and it's also an old habit to equalize the temp in the heat exchanger and a throw back to the dark old days of using hot machines). 2. Most importantly to keep the portafilter very hot and dry by wiping with a cloth to remove any used grounds. I teach them to NEVER rinse the portafilter without first drying before being placed under the grinder.

RichardM · February 2012

I'd love to know which place you're working at, Sistabarista...just so I can come in and try a brew

- PM if you want if you're not comfortable mentioning publicly.

mycuppa · February 2012

on 1330069728:

I'd love to know which place you're working at, Sistabarista...just so I can come in and try a brew - PM if you want if you're not comfortable mentioning publicly.

Be careful Sister - he wants your job ! No, that's not right......he wants the chef's job

derrilex · February 2012

I stick my flashy bezzera cloth under the front feet of the BZ and let it hang over the edge of the bench. I always wipe out after a quick flush.

Ronin · February 2012

I always wipe, but like a regularly cleaned cloth. I've seen some nasty ones. I don't work in the industry anymore

ACog · February 2012

I'm suprised there's even a discussion on this. Every place I've ever worked at, trained at, or observed has used a dedicated dry cloth to wipe out the basket. Rinsing is minimised as it makes a mess and a wet basket isn't good for the puck. To each their own, but rinsing the basket between shots in a commercial environment to me, seems silly.

UNM · February 2012

on 1330065027:

I like to have a colour code system for cloths, which I hope most places do?

Simple color system: For filter cleaning Start with white cloth. To check cloth - Hold cloth next to latte in a glass. If cloth darker than latte, then demote to bench cleaning. Use new cloth. For bench cleaning When bench cloth darker than an espresso shot discard and use current filter cloth regardless if it if still barely used. :coffee2: :thumb:

sistabarista · February 2012

on 1330078788:

I'm suprised there's even a discussion on this. Every place I've ever worked at, trained at, or observed has used a dedicated dry cloth to wipe out the basket. Rinsing is minimised as it makes a mess and a wet basket isn't good for the puck. To each their own, but rinsing the basket between shots in a commercial environment to me, seems silly.

Yep I always have done, but trying to be open minded rather than going in with guns blazing :thumb:

on 1330069728:

I'd love to know which place you're working at, Sistabarista...just so I can come in and try a brew

You know of the Pump? Going on the roster next wkend :coffee2: we probably already know each other, it is Tba afterall!! ^-^ hehe

ACog · February 2012

SistaBarista, No doubt, your employer has the final say and you're not going to change that system overnight, or perhaps ever. You just have to work with what you've got. I'm more surprised that everyone here takes a different view. I kind of always accepted that most people would dry wipe the basket. For information, my system, be it at home or elsewhere has always been one colour cloth for the milk wand, a dedicated microfibre cloth for wiping out the basket, and another general colour cloth for everything else.

RichardM · February 2012

on 1330085610:

Yep I always have done, but trying to be open minded rather than going in with guns blazing :thumb: You know of the Pump? Going on the roster next wkend :coffee2: we probably already know each other, it is Tba afterall!! ^-^ hehe

Heh, it's just around the corner from my work. I am actually heading there for breakfast this morning. I went there two weeks ago for coffee (they have lactose free milk, which is great), and it was VERY weak - which is odd because I've had people buy me takeaway from there a few times and it's been ok. No doubt you'll make me one in the future and not even know about it

Koffee_Kosmo · February 2012

on 1330054487:

There is always a risk of cross contamination when wiping anything in a food prep area environment And for that reason I say flush only In fact there is (from memory) a whole section on it in your OH&S manual KK

Now having said what I said in the quote above I have no problem wiping the PF with a paper towel or tissue Its the only safe way to do it Please note that I am in the business of keeping buildings healthy I am trained and also have a licence to clean hospital operation theatres KK

UNM · February 2012

Seriously, regarding safety of wiping the filter basket, surely it wouldn't be an issue due to the high extraction temperature? An espresso extraction of pure dog poo would probably be safe, if unpleasant, to drink.

Lacehim · February 2012

on 1330127927:

Seriously, regarding safety of wiping the filter basket, surely it wouldn't be an issue due to the high extraction temperature? An espresso extraction of pure dog poo would probably be safe, if unpleasant, to drink.

:rofl: Hey they can get away with coffee out of a cat's arse... they should be able to get away with anything! lol I've always just knocked out the puck and wiped out the basket with a tea towel. I only use it for this, and it gets wash regularly, and I use a Sellys super wipe for the steam wand. I agree flushing is messy (especially when the drip tray doesn't work too well on my machine). Now thats me at home. I can fully understand that in a commercial environment it can be different, and there is the whole health and safety thing going on too. I personally would do what your told, and maybe later open up a discussion with your employer about it. They should be able to explain their reasoning for doing it this way, then you have to remember that it is there business. If they want it done that way, you need to do it that way to keep your job! I was always led to believe that having a wet basket wasn't good because the coffee grounds starts reacting with it before it's even in the group and would potentially create an uneven/inconsistent shot.

sistabarista · February 2012

thanks guys, I appreciate there are different points of view. And you know the whole point of a forum is to discuss, so thanks for your openness. I won't be bringing it up straight away, but in time when I have been able to build trust. Have a great weekend! :coffee2:

Lacehim · February 2012

sb, it wouldn't hurt to ask why it's done that way.

FreshCoffee2 · February 2012

on 1330127927:

...Seriously, regarding safety (...hygiene...) of wiping the filter basket, surely it wouldn't be an issue due to the high extraction temperature?....

Correct, but do use a cloth that is only used for that purpose and nothing else, and changed over frequently. Also if its unhygienic to wipe out, what about all the barwristers out there that use their hands / fingers in the whachacallit technique to evenly fill the filter at dosing, then the same fingers to clear the lugs, rim and spouts of the group handle to clear excess grinds before inserting the group handle. Again this is taken care of by the over 90 degree brew water, even if it may not look hygienic. Some favour wiping because when you flush with water instead, you can leave drops of water residue in the bottom of the group handle that goes in with the next coffee and / or the wetness in the filter reacts with the grinds before brewing (although I dont believe in that black magic and of we are going to go there then theoretically that should be a further aid to "preinfusion"...its ok to talk about all this academic stuff but when alls said and done, can anyone taste the difference on a one on one comparison and then categorically state that any diff was due to the one that was flushed instead of wiped?????) Wiping is "dry". Wiping is also quicker (due to not shaking the excess water out of the group handle and wastes less water which is an issue, if your drip tray is not plumbed to the drain but into a container that could cause an airlock and overflow of dregs. Otherwise, it doesnt matter which way you do it just personal preference and individual opinion governed by where anyone got their barwrister training from. In short, its a KoffeePolitikal discussion where if you dont adopt anyone's purist opinion, you will most probably be perceived not to know much and can expect to be ostricised to Koffee Limbo by all ;D PS I flush with water because when I am cupping I try and remove any trace of the previous coffee including any possible residue of wet coffee liquor in the bottom of the group handle. But that's just me and I am comparing different coffees or equipment adjustments whereas in a cafe you are invariably using the same throughout.

sistabarista · February 2012

Thanks FC :thumb:

FreshCoffee2 · February 2012

No worries, thank you for giving us some interesting topics to get in to! Rgds, Attilio

shape_shifter · February 2012

I swear I'm not sucking up to anyone but my technique is what mycuppa said and the reason is what fresh coffee said in his PS

I think I might be a little pedantic about things but I like to think that each coffee is a coffee of it's own and doesn't have anything else tainting it even if I'm using the same coffee as the previous cup.

UNM · February 2012

SS, I almost do things jeff's way, but I do rinse the filter with water from the kettle to get rid of any residue and then dry with tissue or paper towel. That is because I only make one or two shots a day. Using the kettle is due to the small boiler size of the gaggia. Dry is important if, like me, you use Weiss Distribution Technique (WDT), not usually applicable in a commercial environment

askthecoffeeguy · February 2012

at my work we use brown coloured chux multi-cloths to wipe out the handle, yellow multi-purpose cloths for the steam wands only, and pink multi-purpose cloths for bench surfaces only - and occasionally a micro fibre cloth for the group handles which is rinsed thoroughly throughout the day - and all cloths used are either laundered daily (well at least they go into the basket daily for a once a week visit to the laundromat) - or if the chux are too used and abused we just chuck em out and start over fresh the next day Personally I'm of the point of view that you dont want any contact with the group handle and water immediately prior to making coffee - as residual water may lie in the handle under the basket, and come into contact with the basket during extraction, causing channelling of the puck (uneven extraction where some of the coffee is over extracted and some is under extracted) And every hour or so I place the empty handles back in the machine and run some hot water through them - while giggling them from side to side - to clean out the handles, and to remove any build up of grinds around the shower screen - the I leave them for a minute or so to (if possible) to drain properly before inserting them back in the machine Something that I've found has enhanced my coffee routine tremendously is setting up the machine so that on the volumetrics I have a purge button which runs a two second flush of water through the group head between extractions, followed by my single shot, and double shot buttons - so when I'm in the swing of things I just hit the purge button before inserting the handle, so that it practically happens automatically, and I dont have to manually hit on / off each time I want to clean out the group head likewise with my hot water buttons - I have one set up for pre-heating the cup / glass - one set up for my long blacks, and one set up for making tea - takes a lot of guess work out of the process especially when you're busy!

Seeya Latte · February 2012

At home I rinse and wipe between shots with the brown towel that came with the set of 3 'specially designed' barista towels (I know, sometimes I too think I got rolled, but oh we'll I look impressive with all the different coloured towels hanging off me !)

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