I'll also throw in, that some of owr most successful (coffee turnover in kilos) cafes are those that have got the FOOD right. ie they run a tight operation where true to my own definition of cafes being an "eatery with a coffee machine" rather than a "coffee house", really the main reason why people go there is to buy lunch, and at the end of the line is the coffee machine and the cash register.....all in a line and progression to where the money changes hands........ With respect, people in these sites need to stop poncing around about "the coffee" and "the equipment" as if they are stand alone products, and start to see it as it is in the business sense, which is what all the cafe coffee machine discussions should be geared to.....business, and not prissy mumbo jumbo about pressure profiling, saturated groups, thermostability and other stand alone technical attribute BS and the like. A coffee machine is a means to an end, which is money in the till, and is only part of a much greater/larger picture. Some of (scratch that) MOST OF the biggest turnover cafes I know of use HX machines, and run serious business models regardless of whether they like their baristas to wear mohawks, have tatts, or hang razior blades off their piercings while they play world barista attitude games behind the coffee machine. Some of them use the cheapest possible beans they can buy and will take take take as much as they can from their suppliers and for the privelege, pay their accounts as late as they can get away with. Coffee and associated equipment is business, period. Would you rather have a write up in the sunday good food guide about how wonderful your super duper signature roasted estate hand picked direct trade high grown coffee is, or would you rather be the very busy cafe down the road "quietly" turning over a fortune with no regard to whether someone writes you up for a good sunday read or not. End of rant. This morning I was in a potentially fatal car crash where an idiot chucked a you-ie in front of me on the highway at 100kph, caused about 16g damage to my ute and causing me to have to leave it at the panel beaters for around the next 6 to 8 weeks while they get round to fixing major damage, a major inconvenience, lucky no one was hurt, but I am not suffering BS about coffee machines very well this arvo.