Nemox Caffe Fenice - Help

System

Hi guys,

My Fenice arrived yesterday and after a frustrating few hours trying to get my head around the differences to my old machine, I have a few questions for you guys.

1. How does one achieve crema? I think that the beans I'm using are shit. They still taste okay, just absolutely minimal crema around the edges. Am I tamping properly? I've got my grind on the finest setting.

2. When one turns the machine on, are you meant to run the steam button and valve open to warm the machine up?

3. When you make the coffee, by pressing the coffee switch, why does the 'temp correct' light go back on once I've finished making the coffee. technically this means i have to wait before steaming the milk. This is right?

4. My cups are filling unevenly from the dual spouty thing (Technical speak).

otherwise, a very pretty addition to my kitchen, and a very sexy portafilter handle.

Cheers,
Amy

mattyj

1. Crema: use FRESH coffee - it doesn't matter when you opened the bag, it matters when they were roasted. Find a local roaster (which from the sounds of the cafe scene in Hobart, might be a bit harder than sydney), and get the freshest beans you can from them. I'm talking less than a week out of the roaster. If you can, get them to sell you beans that they roasted that day. buy enough to last you the week, because any older and crema production goes way down. That said, some coffee varieties make heaps of crema (Indian Monsooned Malabar - when roasted well, Robusta adds lots of crema but tastes like burning tyres) and some coffee's don't add much crema at all. Also (and it sonds like you're doing this) only grind enough for each shot. When I got my first grinder two years ago, I used to grind a little container full of coffee (about 3 days worth) and spooned it into the filter from there - and it was completely pointless for me to have a grinder at home. Having a grinder at home means that you can grind fresh, moments before brewing ... so don't grind in advance! BTW, what grinder are you using? From there, make sure you're using enough coffee - if you can choke the machine, you're off to a good start and you can work backwards from there. 2. If that's what the manual says to do, it may be advising you to do that to release any false pressure in the boiler. Attilio? 3. With single boiler machines, after brewing your shot, the boiler temp needs to rise to create good steam.I'm using a thermoblock, and the only other machine I've used was a 2 group La Marz, which has a dedicated steam boiler so I can't help you there! 4. I used to think that this was because I wasn't tamping evenly and level, but I realise that that's not quite true ... If you have a Spirit Level, check that the bench and machine are on a level surface. Check that the spouts aren't blocked, take the basket out of the portafilter and give it a good rinse from time to time. Or you couldjust start drinking doubles, and it will all be going into the one cup! Hope that things keep getting better for you!

[deleted]

Hmm. Am going to go over the road to the roastery - they are generally pretty good, I just got some beans from a hippy place in Cygnet, the barista was so whacked he couldn't hold a conversation with me - should have been my first warning. 🙂 I am only grinding enough per shot- using my *cough cough embarrassed look* Russell Hobbs conical grinder.. I can't afford a lux. (his name is Big Rusty though..) I will have to investigate further with my machine on the same level... and I do drink doubles... So - the Fenice has no thermablock - I thought this was a good thing. Attilio? Cheers, Amy

mattyj

yeah yeah, sorry if i didn't state that clearly - with a boiler machine, you'll have a 'steam' switch, which is to crank the boiler up to steaming temp ... with a thermoblock, you switch it over to 'steam' and it pulses water into the block, while the elements super heat it to create steam. usually quite wet steam, and not very powerful, but it's steam. boilers are far better for both brewing and steaming - I was trying to say that my only experience is with a thermoblock, so releasing false pressure and all that doesn't come up. Attilio/Fresh_Coffee will be able to explain this far better than me!

[deleted]

Had a fiddle around last night with tamping and grinding, I can get some crema happening, but nothing like the pics I keep seeing and it doesn't sit for very long. The coffee tastes fine without it, but I WANT CREMA DARNIT. I have a weak right wrist, and I've figured out that to tamp the 18kg (Which incidentally I'm going ot have to work out what 18kg is...) Ideas anyone? Cheers, Amy

Reschsmooth

Amy, to measure how much force you are tamping with, get a set of bathroom scales with a towel over it (you don't want your pf getting smelly feet odours!) and place your pf on this as you tamp. This will tell you how much force you are exerting. Alternatively, find somewhere a few kilometers below sea level where gravity will be a lot stronger, and you won't need as much force

Gonzo

Have been watching this and other recent discussions with a great deal of interest. May I make a teensy little suggestion here? Suggest directing your enquiries about how best to use this machine, to the vendor that sold the machine to you. Let the vendor do some work and support both the equipment they sold, and the client they sold it to. G.

Mad_Barun

I've got a gaggia classic had same problems, A brought from Myers (best price at the time) Ask them about it big mistake After a lot head pounding a took to a roaster, we play with the grinder setting of his machine and used FRESH beans ,made heaps of espresso (through most of them out) and got the beautiful crema. they were only to help. Since i've brought my own burr grinder, and found my own settings.

Gonzo

If it is a big mistake to ask your vendor for the appropriate advice, why in hell did "we" buy the euqipment from them instead of from a reputable vendor. By reputable I mean someone who knows what they're selling and can service your needs. Is it because "we" are cheap and bought at the lowest possible price instead of on the basis of a "total" service", then put the hard word on others to spend their valuable time for nothing, giving us the service we should be getting from our vendor? What a strange world we live in. G.

john_2

Gonzo Once again straight to the point and I totally agree with what you have said. The first port of call for any problems with any equipment purchase should be directed to the reseller. If the reseller can't give the correct advice then dump the machine back on their counter and 'demand' a refund. John

ryan

I agree AMYk You got your machine at a good price from a local vendor. go ask him how to make crema with it. Do you get it. Return the machine if it doesnt work and buy from one of the online venders/ advertisers/sponsers of this site. it seems like you have not listened or read all the answers that have been given to you...!!!!!!!!!! ryan

Remus

she bought the machine which obviously is going to make good coffee and crema if used correctly. so, like me she comes to a coffee DISCUSSION board to ask for help. unless there was a problem with the machine, why would the answer for help be to "see the vendor." maybe the vendor sucks. maybe the vendor doesn;t give good advice. maybe she doesn't know the vendor and doesn;t want to use them. maybe she only bought from the vbendor cos they were the cheapest but provide terrible service. who cares what the reason is ? i bought my machine from a great vendor who provided great service but i still didn;t get the whole picture which is why i tried to find a place like this to talk more about the "passion" of coffee making and how to get the best out of the machine.thankfully people like matty, pab, JM and FC gave that advice in spades. 🙂 some of you have been "watching the discussions with a great deal of interest" yet instead of trying to help someone out you ignore it or say go back to the vendor. is that what a dission board is about ?

mattyj

amen to that remus! and what about gift machines? Or people who buy a machine, and then after a little while discover that they want more out of it? should I tell my wife off for generously spending $300 a few years back (which was hard for us to come by a spare $300 a few years back) at retravision, rather than a reputable espresso machine dealer? NO! I went to coffeegeek.com, asked my questions, had them very helpfully answered, and I've continued to grow since then, so that now, when it's time to upgrade, and I can afford to upgrade, I can see the benefits of buying from someone who know's what they are selling and how it works. Sometimes, we have to learn lessons a hard way, but at least they're lessons well learnt. Gonzo, I'm not trying to start a fight here, but sometimes people go for the cheapest price because they simply can't afford much more than that. Shopping around for the cheapest price has lead me to a machine that I can get locally, at nearly $800 cheaper than the price I was first quoted. Now that's turned into a very awesome grinder, that I previously thought I'd never be able to afford either, and which I also got locally at an incredibly cheap price ($130 cheaper than what is commonly quoted), because I shopped around. There's nothing wrong with spending less money, and incidentally, both machine and grinder have come from places with excellent service (danes in brookvale: mazzer mini grinder, forsyth's in Naremburn: Expobar office pulser). Not everyone can drop 2 and a half grand on a giotto without thinking twice.

mattyj

and another thing (while I'm in my ranty mood!) what's with this obsession with getting crema??? why is it the machine's fault, if crema isn't appearing in the cup?!!? I don't mean to be coming across as going off at you amy, it seems to be a bit of a trend in advertising right now to boast that machine's produce a creamy layer of crema. I mean, come on! Crema comes from FRESH COFFEE (FC must like heaing his name mentioned a lot!). STALE coffee (more than a week old) DOES NOT PRODUCE CREMA LIKE FRESH COFFEE DOES! If a machine isn't producing crema - don't blame the machine and take it back to the vendor asking for a refund (unless there's serious brew pressure issues going on), go to your local roaster and ask for FRESH COFFEE! Don't accept anything less than coffee that has been roasted at the most, within the last week! And then, get yourself a good grinder! not any old grinder, but a good coffee grinder! I feel vented now. thank you.

mattyj

amy, i'll just stress again, I'm not going off at you - this has been percolating in my brain for a few months now, ever since those senseo pod thingys came out, boasting of a creamy layer of coffee crema. what a load of rubbish!

[deleted]

My god!! I go away for a day with a cold and hell has broken loose. I have a new machine. I got it at a good price from someone that is not solely a coffee vendor. There is actually nothing wrong with my machine, I've had a crappy machine for the last 15 months, and I upgrade to a very nice machine, and I need to learn how to use it. Technically, the instructions are 3 pages. How to prime the pump, wash parts before use. How to make an espresso. The very very basic things. These things I know how to do, but I'm not getting the result I want. I come to a coffee discussion board to ask advice, and this isn't right? Yes, I will go back to my vendor, and discuss these things. And yes, I have been taking the advice and trying the different techniques, and yes it is improving.

Reschsmooth

So, according to some, one of the rules of engagement with this forum is strictly not to ask for advice, unless you have absolutely exhausted other avenues first! ??? In that case, perhaps the only allowable threads here are discussions abuot how shiny my machine is or giving a plug to some barista who remembered yuor name. Oh, wait a sec, this is the Machines/Technical thread - but just don't ask for advice on machines or anything technical. There must have been a sale on high horses recently.

Remus

amy, with the crema thing. as matty said, i think alot of it has to do with the freshness of the coffee. in saying that though, illy canned coffee gives a very full crema. but in my experience it is also effected by the speed of the pour. the faster and "drippier" the pour, the less crema you get cos the drippy stuff breaks the crema you are building. a good slow syrupy extraction gives a great crema. the blend of coffee also makes a difference. i have found that some espresso blends just don't provide a good crema no matter what you do. as for the crema staying in the cup. the volume of the crema will always reduce as it settles to the top of the cup. if you pour into a clear glass and get a good crema extracted, you will notice that at first its very thick and actually seems to make up the majority of the cup. once it settles though, that crema layer will definately reduce as it's lighter/ more buoyant than the coffee. it should settle into a fine layer just on the surface. also consider your cup size. a smaller diameter cup, will produce better results. a wide diameter cup like a capp or mug disperses the crema over a greater area therfore reducing the depth. if that makes sense. i don;t know how much of a difference the crema makes to the taste cos i rarely get one without crema. i like it cos it adds nice texture aswell as visual. when i first bought my pavoni 10 years ago, the guys at euroespresson who i bought it from swore that you needed to let the espresso settle for a couple of minutes b4 tasting, and that the crema retains the heat in the espresso during that time. ??? it made sense but i dunno if its true. sounded cool though. 8)

[deleted]

The coffee shop across the road (the bean roasters) told me about a blend they have that has a tiny amount of robusta beans in it to give crema. I shied away from it because of the bad rap robusta has - although I'm tempted to give it a whirl? Ideas anyone? P.S. My high horse is a very pretty palomino. 🙂

mattyj

a little bit of robusta shouldn't be too bad - depending on the quality of it. Hazel (aus champ) had roasted a batch of robusta to show a customer of hers what it tastes like, and what (taste wise) it adds to a blend. I didn't try it, but i did have a sniff - ew! In small amounts, it shouldn't overpower any of the goodness. One of my favourite cafe's boasts of having a little bit of Indian Kaapi Royale Robusta (or something like that) and for ages, I didn't even know - compared to when I've opened an old bag of coffee containing robusta, and POW! I was hit with the smell of burnt rubber.