Nemox Caffe Fenice - Help

System · August 2005

Hi guys,

My Fenice arrived yesterday and after a frustrating few hours trying to get my head around the differences to my old machine, I have a few questions for you guys.

1. How does one achieve crema? I think that the beans I'm using are shit. They still taste okay, just absolutely minimal crema around the edges. Am I tamping properly? I've got my grind on the finest setting.

2. When one turns the machine on, are you meant to run the steam button and valve open to warm the machine up?

3. When you make the coffee, by pressing the coffee switch, why does the 'temp correct' light go back on once I've finished making the coffee. technically this means i have to wait before steaming the milk. This is right?

4. My cups are filling unevenly from the dual spouty thing (Technical speak).

otherwise, a very pretty addition to my kitchen, and a very sexy portafilter handle.

Cheers,
Amy

mattyj · August 2005

1. Crema: use FRESH coffee - it doesn't matter when you opened the bag, it matters when they were roasted. Find a local roaster (which from the sounds of the cafe scene in Hobart, might be a bit harder than sydney), and get the freshest beans you can from them. I'm talking less than a week out of the roaster. If you can, get them to sell you beans that they roasted that day. buy enough to last you the week, because any older and crema production goes way down. That said, some coffee varieties make heaps of crema (Indian Monsooned Malabar - when roasted well, Robusta adds lots of crema but tastes like burning tyres) and some coffee's don't add much crema at all. Also (and it sonds like you're doing this) only grind enough for each shot. When I got my first grinder two years ago, I used to grind a little container full of coffee (about 3 days worth) and spooned it into the filter from there - and it was completely pointless for me to have a grinder at home. Having a grinder at home means that you can grind fresh, moments before brewing ... so don't grind in advance! BTW, what grinder are you using? From there, make sure you're using enough coffee - if you can choke the machine, you're off to a good start and you can work backwards from there. 2. If that's what the manual says to do, it may be advising you to do that to release any false pressure in the boiler. Attilio? 3. With single boiler machines, after brewing your shot, the boiler temp needs to rise to create good steam.I'm using a thermoblock, and the only other machine I've used was a 2 group La Marz, which has a dedicated steam boiler so I can't help you there! 4. I used to think that this was because I wasn't tamping evenly and level, but I realise that that's not quite true ... If you have a Spirit Level, check that the bench and machine are on a level surface. Check that the spouts aren't blocked, take the basket out of the portafilter and give it a good rinse from time to time. Or you couldjust start drinking doubles, and it will all be going into the one cup! Hope that things keep getting better for you!

Unknown · August 2005

Hmm. Am going to go over the road to the roastery - they are generally pretty good, I just got some beans from a hippy place in Cygnet, the barista was so whacked he couldn't hold a conversation with me - should have been my first warning.

I am only grinding enough per shot- using my *cough cough embarrassed look* Russell Hobbs conical grinder.. I can't afford a lux. (his name is Big Rusty though..) I will have to investigate further with my machine on the same level... and I do drink doubles... So - the Fenice has no thermablock - I thought this was a good thing. Attilio? Cheers, Amy

mattyj · August 2005

yeah yeah, sorry if i didn't state that clearly - with a boiler machine, you'll have a 'steam' switch, which is to crank the boiler up to steaming temp ... with a thermoblock, you switch it over to 'steam' and it pulses water into the block, while the elements super heat it to create steam. usually quite wet steam, and not very powerful, but it's steam. boilers are far better for both brewing and steaming - I was trying to say that my only experience is with a thermoblock, so releasing false pressure and all that doesn't come up. Attilio/Fresh_Coffee will be able to explain this far better than me!

Unknown · August 2005

Had a fiddle around last night with tamping and grinding, I can get some crema happening, but nothing like the pics I keep seeing and it doesn't sit for very long. The coffee tastes fine without it, but I WANT CREMA DARNIT. I have a weak right wrist, and I've figured out that to tamp the 18kg (Which incidentally I'm going ot have to work out what 18kg is...) Ideas anyone? Cheers, Amy

Reschsmooth · August 2005

Amy, to measure how much force you are tamping with, get a set of bathroom scales with a towel over it (you don't want your pf getting smelly feet odours!) and place your pf on this as you tamp. This will tell you how much force you are exerting. Alternatively, find somewhere a few kilometers below sea level where gravity will be a lot stronger, and you won't need as much force

Gonzo · August 2005

Have been watching this and other recent discussions with a great deal of interest. May I make a teensy little suggestion here? Suggest directing your enquiries about how best to use this machine, to the vendor that sold the machine to you. Let the vendor do some work and support both the equipment they sold, and the client they sold it to. G.

Mad_Barun · August 2005

I've got a gaggia classic had same problems, A brought from Myers (best price at the time) Ask them about it big mistake After a lot head pounding a took to a roaster, we play with the grinder setting of his machine and used FRESH beans ,made heaps of espresso (through most of them out) and got the beautiful crema. they were only to help. Since i've brought my own burr grinder, and found my own settings.

Gonzo · August 2005

If it is a big mistake to ask your vendor for the appropriate advice, why in hell did "we" buy the euqipment from them instead of from a reputable vendor. By reputable I mean someone who knows what they're selling and can service your needs. Is it because "we" are cheap and bought at the lowest possible price instead of on the basis of a "total" service", then put the hard word on others to spend their valuable time for nothing, giving us the service we should be getting from our vendor? What a strange world we live in. G.

john · August 2005

Gonzo Once again straight to the point and I totally agree with what you have said. The first port of call for any problems with any equipment purchase should be directed to the reseller. If the reseller can't give the correct advice then dump the machine back on their counter and 'demand' a refund. John

ryan · August 2005

I agree AMYk You got your machine at a good price from a local vendor. go ask him how to make crema with it. Do you get it. Return the machine if it doesnt work and buy from one of the online venders/ advertisers/sponsers of this site. it seems like you have not listened or read all the answers that have been given to you...!!!!!!!!!! ryan

Remus · August 2005

she bought the machine which obviously is going to make good coffee and crema if used correctly. so, like me she comes to a coffee DISCUSSION board to ask for help. unless there was a problem with the machine, why would the answer for help be to "see the vendor." maybe the vendor sucks. maybe the vendor doesn;t give good advice. maybe she doesn't know the vendor and doesn;t want to use them. maybe she only bought from the vbendor cos they were the cheapest but provide terrible service. who cares what the reason is ? i bought my machine from a great vendor who provided great service but i still didn;t get the whole picture which is why i tried to find a place like this to talk more about the "passion" of coffee making and how to get the best out of the machine.thankfully people like matty, pab, JM and FC gave that advice in spades.

some of you have been "watching the discussions with a great deal of interest" yet instead of trying to help someone out you ignore it or say go back to the vendor. is that what a dission board is about ?

mattyj · August 2005

amen to that remus! and what about gift machines? Or people who buy a machine, and then after a little while discover that they want more out of it? should I tell my wife off for generously spending $300 a few years back (which was hard for us to come by a spare $300 a few years back) at retravision, rather than a reputable espresso machine dealer? NO! I went to coffeegeek.com, asked my questions, had them very helpfully answered, and I've continued to grow since then, so that now, when it's time to upgrade, and I can afford to upgrade, I can see the benefits of buying from someone who know's what they are selling and how it works. Sometimes, we have to learn lessons a hard way, but at least they're lessons well learnt. Gonzo, I'm not trying to start a fight here, but sometimes people go for the cheapest price because they simply can't afford much more than that. Shopping around for the cheapest price has lead me to a machine that I can get locally, at nearly $800 cheaper than the price I was first quoted. Now that's turned into a very awesome grinder, that I previously thought I'd never be able to afford either, and which I also got locally at an incredibly cheap price ($130 cheaper than what is commonly quoted), because I shopped around. There's nothing wrong with spending less money, and incidentally, both machine and grinder have come from places with excellent service (danes in brookvale: mazzer mini grinder, forsyth's in Naremburn: Expobar office pulser). Not everyone can drop 2 and a half grand on a giotto without thinking twice.

mattyj · August 2005

and another thing (while I'm in my ranty mood!) what's with this obsession with getting crema??? why is it the machine's fault, if crema isn't appearing in the cup?!!? I don't mean to be coming across as going off at you amy, it seems to be a bit of a trend in advertising right now to boast that machine's produce a creamy layer of crema. I mean, come on! Crema comes from FRESH COFFEE (FC must like heaing his name mentioned a lot!). STALE coffee (more than a week old) DOES NOT PRODUCE CREMA LIKE FRESH COFFEE DOES! If a machine isn't producing crema - don't blame the machine and take it back to the vendor asking for a refund (unless there's serious brew pressure issues going on), go to your local roaster and ask for FRESH COFFEE! Don't accept anything less than coffee that has been roasted at the most, within the last week! And then, get yourself a good grinder! not any old grinder, but a good coffee grinder! I feel vented now. thank you.

mattyj · August 2005

amy, i'll just stress again, I'm not going off at you - this has been percolating in my brain for a few months now, ever since those senseo pod thingys came out, boasting of a creamy layer of coffee crema. what a load of rubbish!

Unknown · August 2005

My god!! I go away for a day with a cold and hell has broken loose. I have a new machine. I got it at a good price from someone that is not solely a coffee vendor. There is actually nothing wrong with my machine, I've had a crappy machine for the last 15 months, and I upgrade to a very nice machine, and I need to learn how to use it. Technically, the instructions are 3 pages. How to prime the pump, wash parts before use. How to make an espresso. The very very basic things. These things I know how to do, but I'm not getting the result I want. I come to a coffee discussion board to ask advice, and this isn't right? Yes, I will go back to my vendor, and discuss these things. And yes, I have been taking the advice and trying the different techniques, and yes it is improving.

Reschsmooth · August 2005

So, according to some, one of the rules of engagement with this forum is strictly not to ask for advice, unless you have absolutely exhausted other avenues first! ??? In that case, perhaps the only allowable threads here are discussions abuot how shiny my machine is or giving a plug to some barista who remembered yuor name. Oh, wait a sec, this is the Machines/Technical thread - but just don't ask for advice on machines or anything technical. There must have been a sale on high horses recently.

Remus · August 2005

amy, with the crema thing. as matty said, i think alot of it has to do with the freshness of the coffee. in saying that though, illy canned coffee gives a very full crema. but in my experience it is also effected by the speed of the pour. the faster and "drippier" the pour, the less crema you get cos the drippy stuff breaks the crema you are building. a good slow syrupy extraction gives a great crema. the blend of coffee also makes a difference. i have found that some espresso blends just don't provide a good crema no matter what you do. as for the crema staying in the cup. the volume of the crema will always reduce as it settles to the top of the cup. if you pour into a clear glass and get a good crema extracted, you will notice that at first its very thick and actually seems to make up the majority of the cup. once it settles though, that crema layer will definately reduce as it's lighter/ more buoyant than the coffee. it should settle into a fine layer just on the surface. also consider your cup size. a smaller diameter cup, will produce better results. a wide diameter cup like a capp or mug disperses the crema over a greater area therfore reducing the depth. if that makes sense. i don;t know how much of a difference the crema makes to the taste cos i rarely get one without crema. i like it cos it adds nice texture aswell as visual. when i first bought my pavoni 10 years ago, the guys at euroespresson who i bought it from swore that you needed to let the espresso settle for a couple of minutes b4 tasting, and that the crema retains the heat in the espresso during that time. ??? it made sense but i dunno if its true. sounded cool though. 8)

Unknown · August 2005

The coffee shop across the road (the bean roasters) told me about a blend they have that has a tiny amount of robusta beans in it to give crema. I shied away from it because of the bad rap robusta has - although I'm tempted to give it a whirl? Ideas anyone? P.S. My high horse is a very pretty palomino.

mattyj · August 2005

a little bit of robusta shouldn't be too bad - depending on the quality of it. Hazel (aus champ) had roasted a batch of robusta to show a customer of hers what it tastes like, and what (taste wise) it adds to a blend. I didn't try it, but i did have a sniff - ew! In small amounts, it shouldn't overpower any of the goodness. One of my favourite cafe's boasts of having a little bit of Indian Kaapi Royale Robusta (or something like that) and for ages, I didn't even know - compared to when I've opened an old bag of coffee containing robusta, and POW! I was hit with the smell of burnt rubber.

Unknown · August 2005

Re the slow pour for crema - Even with a heavy tamp (heavy for my weak girlie hands) I'm still getting a complete pour in about 15 seconds.. seems a little fast after reading the information everywhere... Cheers, Amy (sated with a double shot skinny cap and a double choc muffin... morning tea on a friday)

FreshCoffee2 · August 2005

G'day sheilas and blokes, well I can see both sides of the coin as BOTH a professional coffee roaster and equipment importer & trader, as well as a coffee and machine enthusiast! If I wasnt an enthusiast I wouldnt have chalked up somewhere over 400 posts to this forum, most of them I cannot deny, in reply to other enthusiasts questions, which hopefully have been some help to some people

FreshCoffee2 · August 2005

Ok Amy, here's the link: http://www.cremamagazine.com.au/forums/YaBB.cgi?board=2;action=display;num=1061689311 Regardz, FC. Oh and I think I'll just mention that the material in the link is COPYRITE to me!

Unknown · August 2005

Found and printed. Ready to go home this afternoon and play some more. After stopping to get some more beans.

Remus · August 2005

15 second pour is way too fast imo. you need a finer grind. are you grinding yourself or having it ground for you ? i don;t think a stronger tamp will compensate for a couple of notches on the grinder. when i make a great shot, i see the following... when i start the extraction by starting the machine i hear the pump working but nothing coming out of the pf for a couple of seconds as the pressure builds up and the water soaks thru the coffee. then i get a very dark and syrupy looking fluid. then if you look closely at the spouts you should see a tiger stripe in your extraction, (dark mixed with some lighter shades), then i get the blonding or lighter coloured fluid which i allow for a couple of seconds aswell. all the while it is quite a slow pour and never really "gushes" or splutters out. that process takes between 20-30seconds and ideally around the 25 mark. never less than 20seconds though. when i take the pf out the tablet is still in perfect shape and there is minimal moisture at the top of the tablet. no pools of water sitting on top. this process whould be seen no matter what machine. cos thats the exact same thing that occurs in my pavoni to produce espresso, pretty much down to the oz and the second.

mattyj · August 2005

when I had a lesser grinder, I compensated for the 'not fine enough' issue by using more coffee ... I used to cram is as much as possible, and sometimes it would choke the pump ... only sometimes! So if you cant grind fine enough, or if it's being ground for you, you could try using a bit more coffee still. Also, I heard about something called the 'staub tamp', where you kinda dig the edge of the tamp into the four corners of the basket ... North, South, East, and West, then give another firm level tamp to even it all out - it compensates for a tamp that's too small for the basket, by cramming in the coffee around the edges, so that there's no less dense areas there. Just another thought!

Lovey · August 2005

G'day all, how's it going Amy, any updates for us? How is your journey to espresso nirvana going? All the best, Steve.

Unknown · August 2005

Oh bollocks. The problem lies in my grinder. Am going to go back to the coffee shop today to get the grinder sorted out. I went to my local cafe and got some coffee ground to their machine specifications, took it home, tamped, fiddled, and voila, beeyotiful thuck ruch crema to bring a tear to one's eye. Have been getting the pour within the 25 second mark beautifully... my poor other half is sick of me racing to get him and making him admire the crema. (although he doesn't complain when I make him lattes..) My next port of call is milk frothing. The steaming wand on Fenice is waaay better than my old toaster brand machine, and I'm having trouble controlling it. Can't seem to get a decent froth out of it, let alone silky enough for latte art. Ideas? Cheers, Amy

FreshCoffee2 · August 2005

What type of grinder did you buy or did/do you already have? This is important. FC.

Remus · August 2005

My next port of call is milk frothing. The steaming wand on Fenice is waaay better than my old toaster brand machine, and I'm having trouble controlling it. Can't seem to get a decent froth out of it, let alone silky enough for latte art. Ideas? Cheers, Amy

congrats on the espresso. feels good finally gettin it right. 8) the frothing is no differetn. it will come with practice and adapting to the new machine. my last machine i had down pat but i'm still adapting to the giotto. where to put the wand, (2 hole), and the speed with which it heats is so much faster you gotta be on your game ! i've found that slowing it down a bunch works well until you get the hang of it. don't open the steam all the way up and do it slowly, this gives you more control. make sure your milk and jug starts ice cold aswell. milk is much easier to froth when it's cold. as it heats up, then you have much less chance getting good microfoam from my experience. starting from cold aswell also buys you time in the process. cos once the milk hits the 160 odd mark, it's starting to get too hot and you burn the milk. i find ideally my milk temp is around the 140-150 mark tops. i still use a thermometer in the milk after 10 years. just a habit i guess and has become part of my routine. there is a great nilk frothing guide somewhere. i think it was at home-barista. can;t recall exactly.

Unknown · August 2005

I have a Russell Hobs conical grinder. His name is Big Rusty. Cheers, Amy

frame

Howdy, Stranger!

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Nemox Caffe Fenice - Help

Comments

foot

Policies

Social

frame

Howdy, Stranger!

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Categories

In this Discussion

Nemox Caffe Fenice - Help

Comments

foot

Policies

Social