Londinium I Lever Espresso Machine

Paolo5 · September 2012

Hi Reiss, My machines have the steamer on the LHS (facing the machine) but can't see a problem which side it is on....rarely use a steaming wand anyway. No preference for shape of wand at all except would hate to have one that is too long to fold back underneath, facing the cup platform. One that swivels would be much better than the fixed one on the Cremina. 1)Do you know when you will be able to put up some photos of a finished Londinium 1? 2)Will you be taking pre-orders? 3)Will you be offering a naked portafilter as an option? It is an amazing opportunity to have contact with you and be able to ask questions etc. before the Londinium 1 is actually manifests. It feels a bit like we can be part of the process. Cheers, Paolo

lespresso · September 2012

1. yes, it swivels 2. it is M10 or whatever it is with compatible thread pitch to allow you to attach any of the trick tips that are designed for LM wands, e.g. the latte blade or whatever its called, there's a whole raft of them on the mkt now 3. i have photos already, albeit not of the finished production machine, but of a fully working prototype that looks the same as the production machine, but without the glass sides or correct grips or lever or bridge for the drip tray, different to the working model pictures that have already been posted. when i am sure of our 'on sale' date i will post these pics as we need to be able to move very quickly as soon as they are in the public domain 4. to me pre-orders mean asking people to put money on the table. i don't want to do this until i am sure of the release date. as i have mentioned, its all hands to the pump to get it on sale in sept 5. yes nakeds will def be avail - the forged PFs are really nice if you are familiar with how crappy the plating is on most of the cast PFs, its the little things like this that i think make a big difference to how you feel about a machine when you get it out of the box for the first time btw, i know there will be plenty of people sitting there thinking, boy i hope you're not afraid of heights son because you've set yourself up for an awfully big fall if it doesn't go to plan. we'll make mistakes & we'll get things wrong, but we won't just shrug our shoulders and say they're all like that, or we have never had any complaints before about it. we'll sodding well fix/replace & get it on a courier to you as fast as we can because for the first time ever we will have the ability to do so.

SniffCoffee · September 2012

I'm actually a fan of fixed steam wands - both the Lusso and Cremina are fixed and I reckon it removes one variable. Reiss, just another couple of cents opinion: Offer lots of options, and charge for them - let customers customise their machine eg: the steam wand on the other side naked PFs tamper wood / base varations Laser etching - you mention in your blog that you've got the capacity to etch, why not let customers add their own things. glass sides Sniff

Paolo5 · September 2012

btw, i know there will be plenty of people sitting there thinking, boy i hope you're not afraid of heights son because you've set yourself up for an awfully big fall if it doesn't go to plan.

Yeah....I have read some of the comments on HB.

we'll make mistakes & we'll get things wrong, but we won't just shrug our shoulders and say they're all like that, or we have never had any complaints before about it. we'll sodding well fix/replace & get it on a courier to you as fast as we can because for the first time ever we will have the ability to do so.

This is reassuring...really reassuring. Orphan Espresso made updates to the Pharos available cheaply and sent another part freight-free to me when it was back in stock. Good to deal with Doug and Barb. This backup service DOES happen in the marketplace but it is a rare thing. It's a good feeling on the consumer's side when it does.

lespresso · September 2012

sniff completely agree i would only add that my current focus is to get to the starting line with a simple solid offering that pleases most people out of the box we can add the flashing lights in time as/when/if people scream for them for example, i think we've just been told that we have the steam wand & water port the wrong way around i think we need to switch it if possible

Paolo5 · September 2012

I'm actually a fan of fixed steam wands - both the Lusso and Cremina are fixed and I reckon it removes one variable. Reiss, just another couple of cents opinion: Offer lots of options, and charge for them - let customers customise their machine eg: the steam wand on the other side naked PFs tamper wood / base varations Laser etching - you mention in your blog that you've got the capacity to etch, why not let customers add their own things. glass sides Sniff

A great idea! (but understand your priorities, Reiss)

Hatchy · September 2012

I don't have an issue where the steam wand is. I'm sure most people without restrictive kitchen configurations would agree. I do like it coming straight out at a right angle and then straight down. Being able to rest the jug on the drip tray whilst steaming is also good. I think the water port should be a useable.I have the BDB and it's useable, but why have the knob for it on the left and the port on the right? That is silly. Also why not have a water port that is also on a stem and knuckle and hence more functional for general use? (i'm no engineer, but surely it would be possible, leaks would be what might hold it back). It's good you're allowing feedback Reiss

lespresso · September 2012

um, i think I've misled you if we switch wand & water port the controls will also switch sides - does that solve your concern? its joysticks all the way, both sides I'm afraid - id never go back to screw screw screw open, screw screw screw, closed they're progressive & they can be locked wide open at any angle - how cool is that? does anyone know about a wand shape that does a tight 'S' (lying on its back of course) so it comes down from the machine, then a very tight turn so it is running close to vertical on the up, and then bent back down at the top so it comes down more or less vertical too? had heard some people say this worked, but its often diff to sep the fact from the folklore in these areas

Beanz · September 2012

Hi Reiss Welcome aboard, great to see you here and seeing the information flowing both ways

on 1346372450:

looking at about 550mm(d) x 320(w) x 320 (h) reiss.

Great package

on 1346535404:

It's odd: I'm right handed but prefer the steam on the left and use my left to hold the jug. RHS steam wands look wrong to me!

+1

on 1346535864:

while we're at - what do you (everyone here) think the ultimate shape/curve of the steam wand should be?

I like the shape of the steam wand on the Giotto, it also swivels so it can accomodate different operators preferences for positioning, it is also on the left. Plenty of images on line but Sweet Marias site shows it clearly http://www.sweetmarias.com/espresso_giotto/giotto_rocket_details.php

lespresso · September 2012

thanks for the link/pic.

Kelsey · September 2012

Dark photo, but you can see the angle of my steam wand's dangle: Attachment not found.

lespresso · September 2012

thanks for posting.

Kelsey · September 2012

No, thank YOU! I think I speak for the entire forum when I say that we're thrilled to have you here!

lespresso · September 2012

we don't get that everywhere we go >:D

Brett H · September 2012

on 1346545201:

we don't get that everywhere we go >:D

Well here we'll 'throw another shrimp on the Barbie for you'! The Bezzera's steam wand is good but as a bit of a clutz (just ask KK) I'd be always burning my hand an the BZ's group reaching for the brew switch or the water. The Diadema is really usable and ticks all the boxes. I can even steam one handed with the jug sitting on the drip tray! http://www.cosmorex.com.au/equipment/for-the-home/bfc-diadema-dual-boiler-pid-controlled-junior-extra

SniffCoffee · September 2012

on 1346539946:

sniff completely agree i would only add that my current focus is to get to the starting line with a simple solid offering that pleases most people out of the box we can add the flashing lights in time as/when/if people scream for them for example, i think we've just been told that we have the steam wand & water port the wrong way around i think we need to switch it if possible

Reiss It's great to see you are posting here so regularly and taking on board the suggestions. If you switch the steam wand to the LHS then I'm sold! Here's yet another suggestion - include a tamper in the base price (I've got one of your tampers for my Cremina) - and you reduce another variable - to avoid newer users complaining that they can't get a decent shot...? Final suggestion: DON'T RUSH!!!! Take a leaf from the HG One team, get it right to your satisfaction and then take orders. We've all been waiting long enough for a reasonable compact - temperature stable - double shot volume with single pull - quick warming - 58mm PF - Lever!!! that we can all wait a few months longer. Sniff

conikal · September 2012

on 1346554370:

We've all been waiting long enough for a reasonable compact - temperature stable - double shot volume with single pull - quick warming - 58mm PF - Lever!!! that we can all wait a few months longer.

no need to wait any longer sniff...you can buy my Gaggia Achile !! :D :D

Brett H · September 2012

on 1346563926:

no need to wait any longer sniff...you can buy my Gaggia Achile !! :D :D

I reckon you need to post lots of pictures of that for people like me who'd LOVE to see them. :thumb:

Lacehim · September 2012

Agree with the rushing bit. Make sure it gets a good test to iron out any wrinkles.

We can wait a little bit longer if needed. Better to iron them out over there, than half way around the world. Does the steam side really bug folk that much !!! I admit I didn't like my silvia style machine on the right side, but that was mainly because of the turning of the knob, which was difficult and awkward for a right handed person, but these flick switchs will be much easier to turn on and off. I'm easier either way. I suppose I won't have to retrain my brain if it's steam on left, HW on right. Same as the lusso.

Can't wait to see piccies either!

lespresso · September 2012

Email from the owner of Fracino at 05:48 on a Sunday morning - 'Agreed we always have steam on the right water left only 2 in a 1000 want it the other way. If they do its a special pipe no big deal. Adrian' Im very reluctant to overturn that guidance, given that Fracino have been involved with espresso machines since 1958 I hope that doesn't upset too many people, but i think we will leave things as they are, with the option to switch if its an issue It might be down to the Italians & Brits driving on opp sides of the road

Kelsey · September 2012

I was thinking about why it is last night and came to the conclusion that: - Easier to do the initial fiddly water purge while holding a jug - Prefer to have my right hand do switch duties - Prefer to have my right hand test temperature - I'm usually drinking my single espresso while texturing the milk for my wife's latte! No biggie, but that's my reasoning!

conikal · September 2012

on 1346596443:

Email from the owner of Fracino at [size=18pt]05:48[/size] on a Sunday morning -

??? Someone should tell him to try Decaf !! :coffee2: :D

shape_shifter · September 2012

You've got to love all the discussion from manufacturers, I'm looking forward to seeing the photos. Steam wand, the BES900 is on the right hand side, I tend to fill my jug, put it on the drip tray with wand inside and start steaming, my OH I just steam the milk so it never moves until I've finished, for me I like the dreaded froth so after it's steamed for a little while I use my right hand to finish the steaming and causing the froth to happen. In the meantime I've already put the pf in the group head and done the shot, I don't need my right hand for that. I don't do latte art and I am able to use my left hand for lots of things a lot of people find hard to do, I've also never used a 'real' lever though so I'm guided by others that have. The only thing I would like to see as an option is everything available in 'cool to touch'. I am the biggest clutz I've ever come across and WILL burn myself, it's part of the reason I have the BES900 instead of the regular Italian made machines, it limits hot surfaces, although I still manage to hit the steam wand often enough. I'm looking forward to seeing a lever that doesn't cost the earth but produces the goods without added problems

Lwowiak · September 2012

Hi Reiss, As others have already stated, welcome to the forum. I think you will find a lot of people are interested in your machine, but are watching quietly on the sidelines. The fact you are so open to suggestions is extremely refreshing. I am interested in your project on behalf of friends and family. I was fortunate enough to purchase a Bosco Sorrento 1GP earlier this year, so my needs are satisfied. Many people have enjoyed the coffee from my machine and would like something similar, but with a smaller footprint. I would like to offer some suggestions: STEAM WAND I am right handed and prefer the steam wand on the LHS, like the Bosco. It really helps in streamlining your workflow, and it is easier to hold the jug in your left, and test for temp with your right. Having the steam wand on your RHS would be awkward. I tried to emulate the scenario, and did not like it. My previous commercial machine also had the wand on the left. My teenage daughter is left handed, and she also prefers the setup on the Bosco. As to the type of wand, I find the one on the Bosco very easy to use, and it produces excellent microfoam. My only advice, would be to ensure the ball on the end of the wand is completely round, as it is easy to clean then. CUSTOM WORK I think it is great that you will allow the machine to be customised. This is what is lacking in the market. People will really like the option to fully "BLING" their machine. Look at the beauty of some of the old levers, they certainly look better than the square boxes of today. It is one of the reasons the KVW products are admired. If the design is such that you can easily remove the sides and change them, or replace them with something special (glass, etched SS etc), you will have an added feature that is unique. Out of interest, how will you balance the machine? The Bosco is big, but I do manage to move it sometimes, so am curious how you will overcome this. Good luck with the project, and thank you for keeping us informed.

conikal · September 2012

Guys, this "steam wand location" is so trivial .

I have machines with steam on opposite sides to each other. i have no problem switching between the two. The human body & brain are quick to adapt. Have you never been O'seas and rented a LHD manual car ?,,,how long did it take to adapt ?

shape_shifter · September 2012

conikal big deal if you think it is trivial, we're just commenting, free world and everything :rofl:

Seeya Latte · September 2012

I would imagine that the left vs right steamarm positioning for most people is more a preference and not a dealbreaker unlike in my case a couple of years ago when I upgraded. I was hamstrung by design because the allocated spot on the bench dictated I needed the steam arm on the RHS and in doing so narrowed the available choices quite significantly. I like the idea of this machine as a potential future upgrade so selfishly I would like it if it remains on the RHS because I don't think I could get away with suggesting we need to sell up to accommodate my next machine. But all jokes aside if I liked a certain machine for a bunch of other reasons, I for one would make the necessary changes to my steaming routine instead of running the risk of settling on another machine that I may only be 50-50 on

Paolo5 · September 2012

on 1346372450:

hi GBP1500 incl 20% VAT, which will not be charged for exports outside the EU you are looking at about GBP200 for FEDEX door to door to Australia, which depending on how Aussie customs feel, should reach you in about a week. its a fully tracked service anyway, so you can see exactly how far away it is spec 2.3L copper boiler 2800W or 2400W for NZ/AUS if preferred so it runs on 10A, but id recommend the full fat 2800W experience if you can big 'ol spring group with thermosiphon vibe pump (i know, i know, but the guys making it assure me they have used it in their other machines for years and it is very reliable) looking at about 550mm(d) x 320(w) x 320 (h) GBP1500 is for the base model with stainless sides and black synthetic handles there will also be a more expensive version with glass side panels & polished copper boiler & pipes that has then been clear coated so it won't tarnish & that's about it think reiss.

Hi Reiss, You said this in an earlier post, can you please clarify the wattage aspect for me? Do both the 2800W and 2400W models run on 10amp power? Or is the 2800W model designed to run on a 15amp circuit? What benefit would the higher wattage model offer the user in a household environment? It's great to be able to ask these sorts of questions. Many thanks, Paolo

lespresso · September 2012

P=IV so P/V=I so if you take the 2800W element and run it on 240V it will draw 11.67A this is the std UK build and it is nominally assumed to run on a 13A plug, which is the UK std you will recall someone on this forum said hey, we only have 10A in Aussie & NZ, the 2800W won't run on a 10A spur and it would be a real pain if i had to put one in my kitchen so for NZ/AUS & any other 240V/10A markets we offer the also offer the 2400W element if you are able to access the needed 13A you should take the 2800W element as it will heat faster & recover faster, which is one of the benefits of this machine (i.e. leave the steam wand full on - it won't lose pressure, even it drawing a shot) - on the E61 fracinos you can leave the pump on and the steam wand full open and the water for the group won't go cold and the steam pressure won't drop - it will keep going until it hits the low water mark and turns itself off the 2400W will still work fine - to put it in perspective the 110V element is 1400W

lespresso · September 2012

Lwowiak take a look at how far back from the front & sides the feet are on your Bosco - move those right to the front corners and that will significantly improve things for you the trouble is they are mounted to the angle iron frame - there is nothing of strength in the front corners of the machine, so you would need to build out the frame into the corners we've had to do more than just that - we don't have a stonking 6L boiler & the water inside for ballast for starters how we've done it will be obvious to anyone with an engineering mind as soon as they see the machine of course reiss.

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