Londinium I Lever Espresso Machine

Lwowiak

hiphipharrar wrote:

I would, however, recommend the following to improve sales:

A option for a cup warmer, even if it is simply a clip-on rail

Establish a distributor and service centre in Australia

A comparative independent review (yes, early days I know)

Another video with less showing only Reiss (no offence but it's the L1 that potential buyers want to see) and more of the machine in operation, pouring nice syrupy pours. I'm afraid some of those views did not do the L1 much justice.

Some valid points. The cup warmer could be an accessory for those who cannot live without one. Even the KVW Speedster has an option for a larger rail. I actually applaud for Reiss for the current lack of local distributor. This is a business model that challenges the current retail model, and I hope it succeeds. This is a specialist machine and comes at a fantastic price point, bringing it within reach of many people who are considering upgrading or improving their coffee setup. The machine is simple, and any issues can be resolved via skype. Should a major problem arise, I am sure a service agent can be found quite easily. I for one would prefer to buy such a machine direct from the manufacturer. For people wanting to touch and feel the machine, Reiss could exhibit his product at one of the annual coffee expos like MICE. I agree with the video of syrupy pours. If you are showcasing a pour, it has to look perfect, especially if from a naked group handle. Otherwise every man and his dog will make some derogatory remark about the machine.

lespresso

while i am not avoiding responsibility the naked PF shot was done by the guy who took the video not only is he relatively inexperienced in making espresso but he was pulling the shot and doing the filming all on his own and struggling to get in close enough to get the shot and get his lens to focus sharply on the extraction we had done two days of shooting and he wanted to get some more footage - we were out of time these videos aren't cheap to produce, i didn't intend to pay for a third day of filming and i stand by that decision if you want to criticise the poor barista technique I'm pretty relaxed about that its easy & fun to be an armchair general, but if you've ever undertaken a project like this you will appreciate that it is rather different from working for the corporation

hiphipharar

if you don't think Malte's review is independent there really is no hope.

I said "A comparative independent review" Yes, I already know why you didn't bother with the cup warmer. I'm saying it might be a deal breaker for some. The overall standard of the video is professional (lighting, camera angles, etc) but you are using it for promo purposes. I'm sure your machine could produce a really nice shot but that's what should be shown. Why would someone pay money for a machine that appears on the video to produce a shot that is no better than that seen on a cheap machine? You may be relaxed about it and that's your privilege, but you aren't a potential buyer.

lespresso

Malte compares it with his 2 group Idrocompresso and LONDINIUM I comes out on top if you're as smart as you think you are you'll know what that group is capable of. in a former life i was a lawyer, so I'm happy to duel it out with the pen if that's what you want. and while you're at it, tell us in detail about the lever machines you have used and which lever machines you think outpoint LONDINIUM I and why.

hiphipharar

Shrug.

conikal

hiphipharrar wrote:

...... the cup warmer. I'm saying it might be a deal breaker for some.

😃 😃 The "warmer" is inbuilt. its only the rail that is omitted . I find it hard to believe that the type of buyer that is considering the L1 would have a top rail high up the list of priorities. :🙂

Lwowiak

lespresso wrote:

while i am not avoiding responsibility the naked PF shot was done by the guy who took the video not only is he relatively inexperienced in making espresso but he was pulling the shot and doing the filming all on his own and struggling to get in close enough to get the shot and get his lens to focus sharply on the extraction we had done two days of shooting and he wanted to get some more footage - we were out of time these videos aren't cheap to produce, i didn't intend to pay for a third day of filming and i stand by that decision if you want to criticise the poor barista technique I'm pretty relaxed about that its easy & fun to be an armchair general, but if you've ever undertaken a project like this you will appreciate that it is rather different from working for the corporation

I do know how much these productions cost, and have been told repeatedly that the devil is in the details. It is very easy to be an armchair general, but my comment was not meant to criticise, just to highlight what some will attack. Your response addresses it perfectly. Hey, I tried to produce videos of naked pours, and have never come up with anything that I would post. I won't be buying a L1 (my current setup is slightly overkill), but know someone who will (as it ticks all of their boxes), albeit later next year. I am looking forward to a review of people's experiences with this machine, and believe a L1 is headed to our shores. Let's hope that person is not put off by the negativity elsewhere, and shares their thoughts with us. I know everyone here will certainly make them feel welcome.

Koffee_Kosmo

I have never used the cup warmer on any of my machines Granted that in a retail environment its ideal or they use a separate cup warmer For home use I just rinse the cups with hot water The reason I don't like the top for storage is Dust, water rings, scratches are all undesirable for me personalty KK

Kelsey

I was ready to wag my mod finger for a few minutes there, but instead I'll just ask us all to keep it civil please! From my perspective, that of a small business owner, I want to throw in my 2c. When you design by committee this is frequently what you get: [attachimg=1] You're never going to satisfy 100% of potential customers - there will always be something that is a deal-killer for some. So you're left with a choice: Know your own mind and producing the product you're passionate about or create something a little more homogenous with mass-market appeal... I personally love having my cups on display on top of my machine and accept that the cup warmer gets scratched - but it wouldn't be a deal killer for me. It will be for others. Just being a lever machine will be a deal killer for some. Being single-minded and ruthless in your objectives is not always a bad thing - Apple wouldn't be where they are today without that approach.

UNM

lespresso wrote:

Malte compares it with his 2 group Idrocompresso and LONDINIUM I comes out on top

I wouldn't consider what he wrote as a comparative independent review. An endorsement yes, certainly. I shall read reviews as they come available. Hopefully links to useful reviews will make their way into this thread. As to cup rails, back when I worked in product support, we got all sorts of requests just after releasing new products and would typically thank submitters and confirm we would consider changes for future production runs based on all feedback received. Ultimately the (prospective and current) customer is king. FWIW,I keep my cups on top of the machine, but don't rely on it to warm them as I insulated my boiler. Just a handy place to keep them.

conikal

Kelsey wrote:

. When you design by committee this is frequently what you get:

Wow, where can i get one of those ? ( but without the wing ! ;D )

Kelsey wrote:

......I personally love having my cups on display on top of my machine and accept that the cup warmer gets scratched -

Just a suggestion.. A piece of clear, self adhesive , vinyl "book covering"..available at most large stationers.. can be applied to the top panel. It is invisible, protects from scratches, stops cups rattling and sliding about, and can be removed easily without leaving a trace. Actually,. using this, you could probably get away without a cup rail at all ! :o :stir

Kelsey

And poke holes in it conikal?

shape_shifter

As someone that is looking at this being a potential next machine. The cup warmer - as it seems to be a big deal breaker, I don't use the top of my machine as a cup warmer, the only time the cups go up there is when I'm making coffee. Australian distributor - We all know what happens on CS, sometimes people don't like being told no, I to am completely comfortable with purchasing direct and if anything happens being able to deal with it ourselves after consulting with Reiss. What I wouldn't be comfortable with is having a distributor set up in Australia and having to pay at least $1000 more for the machine. Reviews - they will come, at least they will be better than what we've seen happen here where the distributors were the ones giving the initial reviews, they then went back on everything they said and bagged the shit out of a machine when they felt they were hard done by. I prefer to see reviews from users that have absolutely no industry experience after all home users are the ones that will be using the machines on a day to day basis, not just when they are asked for a review or to demonstrate.

Ol_Grumpy

:deep breath Reiss, with the greatest of admiration and respect please accept these observations... If you want to sell meat to the masses... You sell the 'sizzle'... Not the steak... My dear man IMHO you put the (equivalent of) live cow up on your video... Frankly- no one wants to see the cow before they eat it - do they? Coffee is a very (VERY) emotional experience... That's what you need to tap into... NOT the nuts and bolts- those buyers (we) are the minority that will buy anyway despite your worst efforts... McDonalds are the masters at selling the experience... :astonishing success Hungry Jacks keep saying 'our burgers are better' :idiots Let me illustrate an example; you don't sell the clear window on the case by showing the guts inside.... You show the envy on the best mates face when he sees it for the first time and the ever so slight smug look of satisfaction on the proud owners face... BTW: I'm no expert, just a humble student who has invested literally hundreds of thousands of my own dollars over the years learning from the very best... Cheers, OG

conikal

Kelsey wrote:

And poke holes in it conikal?

for the vents ? ..yes, you could do it that way...but i prefer a craft knife to do it properly ! :thumb:

UNM

conikal wrote:

Wow, where can i get one of those ? ( but without the wing ! ;D ) Just a suggestion.. A piece of clear, self adhesive , vinyl "book covering"..available at most large stationers.. can be applied to the top panel. It is invisible, protects from scratches, stops cups rattling and sliding about, and can be removed easily without leaving a trace. Actually,. using this, you could probably get away without a cup rail at all ! :o :stir

I too liked the Homer, want one. Wing is OK. not sure about the 'Blue Peter' approach with sticky back plastic, might discolour with the heat, or leave adhesive residue. What is wrong with Espresso Skinz

Brett_H

UNM wrote:

I too liked the Homer, want one. Wing is OK. not sure about the 'Blue Peter' approach with sticky back plastic, might discolour with the heat, or leave adhesive residue. What is wrong with Espresso Skinz

I don't like the Skinz... They are $20 too expensive. A silicone bake wear sheet or pot holder is a couple of dollars and can be cut to fit perfectly. I am currently using a Sushi mat because it matches the wooden theme of my kitchen. I've tried both of these methods and they look good and with the change fro the Skinz I bought a kilo of El Salvador La Cumbre. No reason this type of thing couldn't be tailored to Londium. I don't often use the cup warmer... The protector is for the nice people who unstuck the dishwasher and decide that the milk jug belongs up there.

beanflying

Congratulations on seeing this through the too and fro of design most likely countless tweaks and changes to get the first ones shipped. This is certainly not a simple task as some may think or make dismissive comment on at all :thumb: One persons styling is not going to suit all either but for me the top of the machine is a useful place and on mine well used. (5l Fiorenzato Lever so plenty of room on a much wider chassis) So another vote to see a rail/shield of some sort up top at some stage or future model.

BLrdFX

I cannot believe all the discussion on cup warmers and rails! And the discussion about the L-I's boxy appearance. I would suggest to the detractor's of the current design of the L-I that they might manufacture their own beautifully curved, hammered sides and include a cup rail into the design. An alternative to that would be to go and buy an antique and restore it, or buy it restored. There are some really beautiful machines out there that are very old and are works of art. They might not be as reliable as designed but restore them with modern guts and you will have the machine of your dreams 8)

Lacehim

BLrdFX wrote:

I cannot believe all the discussion on cup warmers and rails! And the discussion about the L-I's boxy appearance.

What's wrong with a bit of discussion about what we as users of espresso machines want? I don't see a problem. I actually think it's good that Reiss is getting some feedback about his machine, and some suggestions for extras what some Aussie customers might like to see made available for the L1. We don't live in London, and might have different want/needs and have different lifestyles. 😉 I for one leave my machine on all day on a timer 🙂 I also can't see much difference in styling from my Quick Mill Achilles. It's a shiny box really. Nothing more too it. Personally I would like to have see the L1 come out in colours like my Lusso. I'm a bit over the shiny stainless look, but I can understand that during design/build stages compromises had to be made to get the product to market. That's not to say that Reiss couldn't offer customisations later down the track once production settles in, for the appropriate return in $$$ for his time and effort. Anyway, great machine, can't wait to see one of them in the flesh. I was tempted to buy one and put it next to the Quick Mill, and keep the one that suited me best, but my wife would probably kill me if I dented the bank balance any more! :rofl: It's great to have the L1 on the market, it's not for everyone, but just having another option (and a well priced one too) is fantastic in my book. I love the simplicity of levers and they make the coffee making ritual in my house so much more hands on and fun.

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