Londinium I Lever Espresso Machine

Ol Grumpy · April 2013

Yes, "That's business" Ain't for the feint of heart.... Cheers, Have a good one...

derrilex · April 2013

You should move the whole set up out here Reiss. Better all round :thumb:

UNM · April 2013

on 1365380466:

Whilst the USA is far bigger in terms of population, you simply don't have the widespread interest in coffee in the USA - if you've ever been there you'll know what i mean

Not entirely. Unless it has changed, instant coffee in the USA is a smaller percentage of sales than 'real' coffee unlike many other markets. Thing is the market is mainly drip filter coffee and is more about quantity than quality - unlimited refills is a selling point. So yeah, domestic espresso machines are not a huge part of their market' that is true. Lever espresso, even less so.

simont · April 2013

on 1365369807:

1. the unpolished welds underneath the tray will not rust or corrode. pickling makes it shiny, nothing more.

This is certainly what I have observed on stainless steel equipment installed in much harsher environments than your average kitchen. I understand the theory, chromium depletion etc, but in reality corrosion is a non issue, it is purely a matter of aesthetics.

conikal · April 2013

Reiss ..one quick question, if i may. Can you confirm that all L1's are test run and generally checked for functionality, Temp setting, leaks etc ,..before being shipped out. ? thanks.

derrilex · April 2013

on 1365396235:

This is certainly what I have observed on stainless steel equipment installed in much harsher environments than your average kitchen. I understand the theory, chromium depletion etc, but in reality corrosion is a non issue, it is purely a matter of aesthetics.

So you understand the theory but still think its a non issue ? In this case it is purely a matter of aesthetics but if you think it's purely aesthetic in most cases of SS fabrication then you really don't understand the theory. Try not post treating and polishing the welds on a kitchen sink and see what happens.

ash · April 2013

on 1365371312:

Ash - as you mentioned machine being hot, what sort of temp does your switch get to? Reiss, what is considered normal for these machines?

Hi UNM, I certainly have not burnt my finger on it yet. Maybe a bass players callused fingers are a little more immune to temp? Then again, when I read that on CS I went and used my ring finger deliberatly to see what the temps was like. Well it was warm, but not hot in the least. And that was after being on for four hours. I couldn't say for certain what the real time temp is, as I don't have a spare temp probe for my multimeter and am unsure that the two (+ and -) probes would give a realistic result.

galumay · April 2013

on 1365380466:

Whilst the USA is far bigger in terms of population, you simply don't have the widespread interest in coffee in the USA - if you've ever been there you'll know what i mean

While i agree with the general gist of your post, this comment is simply incorrect, the interest in coffee in the US far exceeds Australian interest, now thats mainly a function of a population many times ours, but none the less you only have to look at Home-Barista forum to appreciate how seriously a significant number of Americans take their coffee! We have nothing like it in Australia, with only 10% of the US population thats hardly surprising!

simont · April 2013

on 1365409466:

So you understand the theory but still think its a non issue ? In this case it is purely a matter of aesthetics but if you think it's purely aesthetic in most cases of SS fabrication then you really don't understand the theory. Try not post treating and polishing the welds on a kitchen sink and see what happens.

The part is treated where visible during normal use. That is where it is aesthetically and functionally important. To me aesthetics is not so important in areas that cannot be seen (as long as the weld is neat), but I appreciate it may to others. My point is that just because a weld is not passivated does not mean it will corrode. I think you will find that most sinks, if not all, are not polished or passivated/pickled on the underside (for good reason).

simont · April 2013

on 1365422778:

And on the top side ? ( I'm talking real SS sinks here - commercial kitchen type stuff not pressed metal shit)

Seems like we have got into a loop here, sinks are polished etc on the visible/wet surfaces, as is the drip tray. Like the drip tray, sinks which are welded (fused) are almost never passivated on the underside. Why, passivation/pickling/electropolishing requires harsh chemicals and/or expensive equipment, selective use is often just sensible engineering.

lespresso · April 2013

on 1365402687:

Reiss ..one quick question, if i may. Can you confirm that all L1's are test run and generally checked for functionality, Temp setting, leaks etc ,..before being shipped out. ? thanks.

Hi Conikal The short answer is 'Yes'. The long answer is think it through. Its all about cost, as i have said. So, what is the least expensive way to build a machine? Zero defects, no question. We're not that good that we can target a zero defect process like a large Japanese company would. So if we make defects, when is it cheapest to identify and resolve them? After we have sent it to Australia? I don't think so. The cheapest point to correct it is the next person on the production line to pick up that the previous person didn't quite get it right, failing that, at final inspection before the goods are approved for packing. We have solved the shipping damage issue. But could you still receive a machine where something isn't right? Yes, absolutely. The difference is we have all the panels in stock in London now, along with a few other bits and pieces and if you were to raise an issue we will often be able to get it on DHL while you are sleeping that night and have it in the air by the time you wake up - Heathrow Airport is about 15/20 minute drive from where we are based If people want to criticise the L1 that's fine, but i think it should be measured against its peers. See how long it takes for our competitors to get some of the parts to you. That comment applies to all of our competitors across the board. You can't get anything at all out of Italy from about third week in July until the middle of September, and thats even if you are a significant commercial customer, let alone an individual. Its got nothing to do with not being an Italian - i have several Italian friends in Italy and they have told me time & again; its just the culture of Italy, its the way it works. Our UK manufacturer is open for business throughout the year, shutting only for the Xmas week and the other normal sort of times, like Easter and other UK public holidays. The factory remains open throughout the summer break. Best Reiss.

Lwowiak · April 2013

on 1365225961:

due to the nature of a lever you don't get a huge amount of body with your coffee, But I still reckon you get an amazingly defined bunch of flavours from this machine.

Ash, glad to see you are enjoying your machine. If you are looking for lots of body, then try a larger basket. I have a triple basket, and have played with doses, ranging from 16g to 24g. This opens up a huge spectrum of flavours for you to try, and see which suits your palate. As to the comment above, I believe your opinion about "body" will change, the more you experiment. I was introduced to lever espresso by someone who really knows their craft as a barista. It was on an old Rancilio machine that was not plumbed in, and the boiler had to be topped up manually. The theory of this was explained to me, but I cannot remember the details correctly, so am hesitant to comment. Using a triple basket the resultant ristretto had tonnes of body. The pour was thick and dense. The coffee was more intense and flavoursome, than the same product from his other machine, which was a Synesso. Same coffee, same grinder; different dose and different grind setting. Lever machines open up a huge range of variables for you to play with. The fun part is the learning curve. As to continual comments on a particular forum about the performance of the L1, I wish to thank them for the comedic relief. To post a swag of photos showing faults and damage clearly illustrates ones prowess with a camera, and one's intent. The lack of pictures of an espresso, or a pour is baffling given the photographic skills. So is the lack of comparison with another machine that the reviewer has at home. This might have lent some credibility to the review that I now bookmark under "comedy". To lay blame on a low showerscreen as the reason for a poor result in the cup; is the same as a tradesmen blaming his tools as the reason for his poor workmanship. A point to remember. The lever group is not made by L1, but rather an Italian manufacturer who also supplies Bosco, KVDW, QM and others. Thus many machines with a similar low showerscreen; including commercial ones, are in use around the world. The baristas using these machines (and there are a few with credentials) are able to produce good espresso. How is it that one person cannot? Is it their technique, their beans or both??

ash · April 2013

on 1365564834:

Ash, glad to see you are enjoying your machine. If you are looking for lots of body, then try a larger basket. I have a triple basket, and have played with doses, ranging from 16g to 24g. This opens up a huge spectrum of flavours for you to try, and see which suits your palate.

Well I've got three different sized baskets (18g Synesso, 20g VST & 22g VST) heading my way for me to have some fun with, so I'm looking forward to playing around a bit when they get here. I've already noticed something different with the 15g VST double compared to the stock double. I think it gives me a little more body, but this could also be dependant on the beans I'm using at the moment. I'm going to do a large roast batch of the same coffee over the weekend, just so I can play with the different baskets and take out the different coffee variable. So fun days ahead, along with a slight caffeine buzz... 8)

Lwowiak · April 2013

The following videos on HB by member Kfir demonstrate a nice pour: http://www.home-barista.com/levers/londinium-videos-photos-by-owners-t24207-160.html#p297774

Kelsey · April 2013

*speechless*

Lacehim · April 2013

Nice. I wonder what baskets he's using.

Lwowiak · April 2013

on 1365596256:

*speechless*

"bright spark" :rofl: :rofl:

Lwowiak · April 2013

on 1365596886:

Nice. I wonder what baskets he's using.

I think VST and EP. A worthwhile experiment would be side by side trials with a number of different baskets. Basket shape and size can make a difference. I have not yet had the opportunity to conduct such an experiment, but look forward to doing so, soon.

UNM · April 2013

on 1365596256:

*speechless*

:laugh::rofl: Where is the 'like' button on this forum? I am still curious how the shipping damage and machine faults are being addressed on Andy's review machine. Obviously some items mentioned in the review are opinions or machine design issues, but others are clearly warranty problems that are (presumably) in progress. I know if I got a machine in that condition, I would be contacting the supplier promptly. I see posts from others asking about that too. Andy has publicly said positive things about his dealings with Reiss, so hopefully there will be follow ups as the issues are addressed.

lespresso · April 2013

UNM As I have already stated, I sent 2 emails asking if everything was OK Only 1 email got a reply and that just said he had been too busy to even look at it Nothing since by any method of communication Its a stitch-up my friend Best Reiss.

Gonzo · April 2013

Not really. As in any barista competition, you can only review the piece of equipment in front of you. Everyone has their own opinion and mine happens to agree with the following quote selectively lifted from elsewhere: "....(Chokkidog) got to have a play, the site would get a better and fairer review (from him) than one from a disgruntled owner and the rest of this sorry saga is history. Rants about commercial interests and other personal attacks are just childish and silly....." It rings true enough for me. If the disgruntled owner had written his own review it would have then been bagged as entirely biased in the circumstances. So the devil you do and the devil you dont.

Lacehim · April 2013

Gonzo, review aside i doesn't explain why it was left in the state it was without contacting the supplier to let them know there was an issue. I wouldn't spend money on something, have it delivered damaged then stick it in the corner for later. Would you? I would be straight on the phone to sort it out! In the end it's one review out of many. I'm sure like any product people will take them all with a pinch of salt, and make their own decision on where to spend their coin. Reiss has been a regular on the forum here, and I believe he would do his best to fix any problems. Many other L1 owners have reported this being the case. Also it's a new product to market, there are bound to be issues, and Reiss highlighted early on the issues with packaging and changed it. Reiss, can I ask what spring you put in your L1? The reason I ask is that I own the QM Achilles with the 2 spring set up. Is it a stock spring or something you had custom made and what's the pressure like?

Koffee_Kosmo · April 2013

Hi Gonzo Common sense dictates that - The review is flawed as one can't review a broken machine because it just won't perform to the specified parameters However one can report on the condition it arrived and what steps were taken to rectify any issues by the manufacturer See post above for the 30 day money back warranty KK

simont · April 2013

I didn't read it as a review, more so an analysis of defects and imperfections. I am quite sure if you applied the same criteria to any machine you would come up with a similar list, for many machines the list would be a good side longer and contain a greater number of actual defects. Coffee by its very nature is subjective, that is precisely why people are so passionate about it. Therefore I don't believe there is such a thing as an objective review, just opinions. When researching machines on forums one needs to make their own judgement on motivations behind those opinions.

Ol Grumpy · April 2013

You know I may be the really odd one out but I can actually understand spending thousands on something and have it sit in the shed. I have done it many, many times. I am a builder and I like tools. I have bought a Festool ts55 plunge saw, 33 dust extractor, MFT, and a few tracks for the saw... Oh yeah and the protractor kit, aluminium saw blade etc, etc it was around $4,500- and it sat in the shed for a long, long time before I even unpacked it.... Or the time I went to a demolition auction and bought a bobcat... Because it only had 1000 hrs on the clock... I've still got it and it's still only got 1500 hrs on the clock.... When you have a decent sized business this is all play tools.... Tax mans pays for it... It's how it is in business... I get it... But I also appreciate this may appear wild extravagance to some... Or who knows how it can be judged by some... To the owner of another forum this machine is just another of many tax deductions.... Not everyone gets emotionally involved with every purchase... Anyway, I don't wish to seem trite... I'm just sayin; I Get It... From both perspectives... As a man wiser than me said just recently, "That's Business"

Koffee_Kosmo · April 2013

I also do this in a more limited way and purchased business equipment that I may use in the future And I do understand this trait, that's why the tone in my replies is moderate with a common sense theme However in the subject we are discussing the machine was actually unpacked and used not put away The issues were apparent and no action was taken to rectify KK

Ol Grumpy · April 2013

Oh yes KK, there are still very valid questions that remain... I'm not taking sides- either way...

UNM · April 2013

There may be valid reasons for making such a purchase, getting extremely angry about it arriving in poor condition, using it at a trade show, boxing it up and then giving it to a friend to review after talking to him about (some of) its defects. I have no problem at all with biased reviews as I doubt I have seen any other kind. This machine is being sold in Australia using a very different sales model to most espresso machines and how effectively post sales service is managed will be important to prospective purchasers. Regardless of whether Mr Freeman has reported the problems with this specific machine and whether it better serves his goals to have them fixed or not, most other purchasers will want faults fixed. Clearly both supplier and purchaser know there are issues. What happens next will be interesting

conikal · April 2013

If you are not following the L1 threads on other forums, you are missing a interesting situation. It would seem that some of these m/c's ( two at least), are experiencing not simply a "stall" of the thermo syphon loop, but also periods of "reverse" flow in the TS loop. Its a bit of a mystery as to how or why this happens, and why its not affecting all m/c's.

Kelsey · April 2013

It seems pretty much solved to me, at least on the HB thread. The guys doing the most measuring are also the ones prone to disassembling the group. They've let air into the group and haven't purged it. Two of the other members were able to replicate the stalling TS issue and have since figured out what causes it. Eric seems hell bent on not actually following their advice - if he'd just purge the amount of water the other two have indicated is required, then we'd know for sure.

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