Double Espresso-Volume and timing

Cuir_Beluga

Okies, it's time again to show my newbness or confusion, whichever....

What is the timing and volume of a double shot? Is it the same whether drinking as an espresso or in a milky drink? I assumed 60ml in 60secs but think I am probably way off.

I have Googled and found many a varied answer :angel:.

Dry_bean

G'Day Sue, Open to interpretation, however with espresso the time for extraction is always around 30 seconds, less time = under and more time = over extraction. As far as the double goes, many people use a double/triple basket - 14 to 18 grams and grind for an extraction of 30ml in 30 seconds, others will go for 60ml in 30 seconds, I'm in this camp, some will even use a triple basket with over 20 grams of coffee. Remember water flowing through ground coffee for no more than 30 seconds. 🙂

Cuir_Beluga

Thanks Db 🙂. I just poured another, I forgot to start the timer but I am sure it was pretty close to the 60ml in 30sec mark. Regardless it is tasty :thumb:. Next question.... Is it normal to have to grind finer to make a double than it is to make a single?

GeekKopi

Hi sue. For a double espresso I do around 60ml in 27 seconds from hitting the switch For a double ristretto I tighten the grind and extract half the amount in the same time. The machine seems like it's going to choke but a thick gunk comes out instead.

Cuir_Beluga

Hi Geek 🙂. Thank you, so much to learn >😃.

Naki_chap

You can go by weight , For a double 1-2 ratio 18g ground coffee = 36g in the cup Timing can be anywhere from 25-35sec from hitting the switch, I use a 20g basket and find 30-35g out is good ,this is into one cup, not split, If you can place a cup on some small digital scales and tare just before you hit the switch.

Cuir_Beluga

Thanks Naki 🙂. I keep meaning to give the weighing a try but just seem never to quite get there. Tomorrow I will have a play around with the scale and see how things pan out. What would the weight to cup ratio be for a single? Thanks 🙂.

askthecoffeeguy

I use 18 to 20g of coffee extracted in 30 sec to produce 40 ml in the cup as a base for my late but I would extract this to 45 ml for a stand alone (read milk free ) double espresso and I also use this as a base for 12 oz take away latte Cheers, Pat

Cuir_Beluga

Brilliant Pat, thank you 🙂.

Dry_bean

Cuir Beluga wrote:

Thanks Naki 🙂. I keep meaning to give the weighing a try but just seem never to quite get there. Tomorrow I will have a play around with the scale and see how things pan out. What would the weight to cup ratio be for a single? Thanks 🙂.

Careful Sue, your starting to sound very much like a coffeegeek. ;D

Cuir_Beluga

Dry bean. wrote:

Careful Sue, your starting to sound very much like a coffeegeek. ;D

Nooooooo 8).

GeekKopi

Soon we will see Sue on a YouTube coffee channel with a counterweighted vacuum brewer and cold drip giving tips to everyone. [emoji41]

Cuir_Beluga

I literally lol at that Geek, I can only imagine :o.

obnic

Naki^chap is right. Weighing is the way to go. The problem with volume measured in the shot glass is that it can be very a inconsistent guide to your extraction. It depends on amount of crema and CO2 in the brew, or even different people's shot glasses. The thing about weight is it is a consistent measurement regardless of apparent volume and so you can (a) get repeatability and (b) you can give me your recipe to try ie 18g dose > 32g drink in 32s at 93.5c. Now I can get close to what you're tasting. Weight is a very good proxy for dissolved solids and so Extraction Yield. (Visit Home Barista and look for Andy Schecter's work on brew ratios.) Extraction Yields of 19% and above are where espresso gets sweet and yummy. Weighing seems laborious but it becomes second nature and it will definitely help you get to outstanding espresso faster than any other route.

Cuir_Beluga

Thanks obnic, I am a weigher of food so I guess coffee shouldn't be an issue 😛. So.....roughly how much should a single hold and how much should a double hold?

Dry_bean

Figures are arbitrary Sue, however it more or less accepted that a single is around 7 grams and a double 14. Having said that, I use 18 grams in a double. :stir Weighing is certainly the way to go in a home situation, it helps with repeatability and minimises variables, needless to say you won't find scales in use in a retail situation, too much messing around. 🙂

askthecoffeeguy

im of the 'play around until you find something that you like' school then weight that so that you have a yardstick to measure against and can get repeatable results cant tell you how many coffee machines Ive calibrated by sight and timing alone, to then have the barista weight the resulting shots and find out that the calibration is spot on! p

Cuir_Beluga

Thanks both Db and CoffeeGuy. I'll have to have a play around when I can get junior out from under my feet. I am currently trying to dial in the grinder for some new beans I put in yesterday, MyCuppas Roasters Choice which turned out to be a Colombian, and am not having much luck. The coffee is good though 😛.