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Author Topic: Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!  (Read 8755 times)

rpjones7

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Hi guys,

 My brother works away and bought a Delongi EC 860.M a few months back, as he is hardly home, this machine has only been used a handful of times.
I have just moved in with him and went to have a cup of coffee only to notice that it was horribly bitter!.

Now this being around $600 I figured it must of just been the coffee he was using so I went out and bought some beans from Zaraffas (which I have used in other coffee machines and produced a nice cup)

I got home and tried again and it was still the same.

So I got out the instruction and noticed I could change the temp of the water and pour amount.

I have now gone through all the setting and the coffee still tastes horrible and bitter (burnt)

Another thing I noticed is the pour time, it pours a 30ml shot in only a few seconds (maybe 5sec) to me this seems way to fast, I have worked in pubs for many years and have always had coffee machines. I am guessing this has to do with the grind? he has a grinder and I have tried different settings but they all pour really fast.

What do you think could be the issue here? or is this just a crappy machine? or maybe a dud?

Thanks in advance!

Ryan



askthe coffeeguy

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #1 on: 27/04/2015, 02:32 PM »
Hi ryan and welcome to the forum

Not familiar with this machine but the first thing I would do is to get my hands on an instruction manual - and go through the cleaning, maintenance schedule - just to ensure that the machine is in tip top shape and to rule cleanliness put of the equation

Any machine in this price range should be capable of making pretty decent coffee

Sounds like the grind adjustment is out so that's a good starting point

The instruction manual should be freely available online for further reference

Let us know how you go

Cheers,

ACg
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #2 on: 27/04/2015, 02:34 PM »
Oh just noticed that you've got the instruction manual already -  so how do you go about making the grind finer ?

Try taking it to its finest setting and the widening it out from there

"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

rpjones7

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #3 on: 27/04/2015, 02:38 PM »
Hi,

Thank you for your reply!

I have gone through the manual and figured out how to change the temp of the water thats coming out, although it only has 3 temp settings "low, medium, high" not actual degrees.. what is the best temp for water running through coffee?

I also have figured out that it was the grind what was making it taste so horrible, it was on a very fine grind and was maybe burning the coffee?
it now tastes 10 times better than it did, but still tastes a little bitter.

I cannot seem to find anywhere what the grind should be?

the grinder is a seperate unit.

Ryan

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #4 on: 27/04/2015, 02:41 PM »
Whole beans ground fresh to order and 30 ml from 30 seconds is the golden rule of thumb
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

Moon

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #5 on: 27/04/2015, 02:56 PM »
Sounds like the grind .. although with a super fast pour you wouldn't think it would turn out bitter .. I've found that bitter can happen with a slow pour whereby the grinds are too fine and tamped too hard.

Adjustable temp setting eh? If it is burnt .. find the temp adjustment and try lowering it. In my earlier machines, I found the water can be too hot straight after the ready light comes on/off. Let it sit for 5 mins to settle before doing the shot


This all coming to you .. from a relative n00b compared to the other Guy ^  offering assistance :angel:

askthe coffeeguy

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #6 on: 27/04/2015, 03:06 PM »
A lot of domestic machines also tend to run too hot so running half a cup of hot water through the group head prior to inserting the handle is also a good way to temperature drop the water and it's good to run a small amount of water through after each extraction as well ...
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

rpjones7

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #7 on: 27/04/2015, 03:17 PM »
Thanks guys!

I have been looking at the grinder, and trying to read up on it, it is a Delonghi kg100. I read on the forums that this is not suitable for an espresso grind?
newbielink:http://www.delonghi.com/en-au/products/coffee/coffee-makers/grinders/kg100 [nonactive]

Could this be my issue?

Maybe I should try getting some coffee and have the store grind it for me?

As for the tip about running the water, I will also try this!  :thumb:

Brett H

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #8 on: 27/04/2015, 04:11 PM »
Thanks guys!

I have been looking at the grinder, and trying to read up on it, it is a Delonghi kg100. I read on the forums that this is not suitable for an espresso grind?
http://www.delonghi.com/en-au/products/coffee/coffee-makers/grinders/kg100

Could this be my issue?

Maybe I should try getting some coffee and have the store grind it for me?

As for the tip about running the water, I will also try this!  :thumb:

Yep mate, spot on :(

Your kg100 isn't up to the task.  The minimum grinder for espresso is a Sunbeam Em 0480 but you're seriously better off considering a Nemox Lux or Iberterial Challenge.

Welcome!
Quickmill Achille, La Pavoni Professional, Robur, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600Plus, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #9 on: 27/04/2015, 09:19 PM »
even one of those $20 blade spice grinders will grind finer than your kg100 by the sounds of things - not an ideal solution but could be a temporary measure - store ground or pre ground coffee seldom works because how can they know the right setting for your machine and then how do you then adjust the grind coarseness to allow for changes in temperature and humidity settings?  Ive even had hand held grinders like the Hario which have ground fine enough for espresso but its a bit of a process

the problem with pre ground coffee is that it starts to lose moisture straight away and is in my experience at least starts to lose its goodness a minute after you grind it

a pressurized portafilter does a lot to compensate for coffee staleness - but if you're going to use a pressurised basket you may as well just opt for a pod machine as ive seen them make pretty decent coffee and at least you get a repeatable result time and time again...

p
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

rpjones7

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #10 on: 27/04/2015, 11:27 PM »
Thanks for all the info guys,

I just have a question,

When I had that grinder on the finest setting, that is when I got the really bitter burnt taste, then the more corse I made it, the less bitter it was,

so how would getting another grinder that grinds even finer help with the bitterness? or does it grind it in a different way?

Moon

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #11 on: 28/04/2015, 12:03 AM »
Your not going to get good results straight away .. it takes practice, experimenting .. you'll waste a fair amount of beans or ground coffee along the way .. and it will take quite while before you get it tasting as great as the Cafe down the road .. assuming it's any good .. that is.

If you are getting a new grinder .. I'd suggest a Breville smart grinder .. are they around $300 folks  :question:

I have the KG 100 (don't use it anymore) .. yeah .. pours too fast .. doesn't grind fine enough

Ok .. too much at the moment. Let's make sure you're into it first eh?

If you don't have a grinder .. you are going to have to go backwards and forwards to the place where you got the ground coffee .. take what they gave you and say .. this is too fine for my machine .. can I have 200g of a bit coarser grind than that .. make sure you ask them for the exact grind setting so that you'll know whether it is the right one .. or go back again and ask for it coarser again until you get 30 ml in 30 secs as previously mentioned.

The idea is to get the right grind before you've paid out $10 .. 30 times .. which would have been the same cost as getting say .. a Smart Grinder $300

Another option .. and not a bad one .. is if you know someone who has a coffee machine and grinder at home .. and get them to come around to your joint and help get it sorted. Try a coffee that they make at their place first .. cause if it tastes like crap .. they're not the one to ask for assistance.

Trial and error .. experiment .. patience and persistence ... Grasshopper. We were all there at the beginning .. just like you are  :thumb:


Moon

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #12 on: 28/04/2015, 12:17 AM »
Thanks for all the info guys,

I just have a question,

When I had that grinder on the finest setting, that is when I got the really bitter burnt taste, then the more corse I made it, the less bitter it was,

so how would getting another grinder that grinds even finer help with the bitterness? or does it grind it in a different way?

Sounds like the water is too hot

The KG 100 does not go fine enough .. so the bitter burnt toast is not because the grind is too fine .. it needs to be finer .. meaning a better grinder .. does a friend have one you can try?

Otherwise buy ground from a coffee place that grinds beans fresh .. and as mentioned in previous post .. you need to work out with them .. the right grind for your machine

obnic

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #13 on: 28/04/2015, 02:43 AM »
I'd try two things first.

(1.) you say the machine hasn't been used for a while so make sure the machine group and portafilter are thoroughly clean.  Old coffee oils will spoil a shot.


(2.) you say the shot is pouring fast, this suggests under-extraction (usually very sour rather than bitter but often confused).  Almost certainly your distribution is uneven, and quite possibly your grind is too coarse or your dose too small.

Make sure your puck is the same depth and density at every point of your basket before you tamp it.  Tamp should be positive but not hard.  Use the same amount of coffee and tamp pressure every shot but keep tightening the grind a little until your shot runs at a good speed.

I reckon that will sort you out but..

If the grinder really cannot go fine enough then you can use more coffee to slow the flow (although you don't want to overfill the basket) or you can tamp a little harder (not my preferred option).  Too much coffee will result in the shower screen interfering with puck expansion which will create cracks in the pick and you'll get a fast flowing shot again.

Vesuvius and Robur.  VST baskets and refractometer.

Brett H

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Delongi EC 860.M produces extremely bitter coffee!
« Reply #14 on: 28/04/2015, 04:43 PM »
Spot on Obnic and welcome.
Quickmill Achille, La Pavoni Professional, Robur, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600Plus, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

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