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Author Topic: VBM hsx junior will not back flush  (Read 10394 times)

mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« on: 05/05/2015, 09:51 AM »
Well my month old VBM is not back flushing, I tried chemical back flush to find the OPV is not letting and thing out into the drip tray ..not one drop and after removing the portafilter it will not fit back in the machine was showing 9 bar on the gauge I checked shower screen and gasket all seemed ok but maybe the seal has moved. I rang coffee parts this morning to be told send email "as I am not a morning person"......what no coffee? any idea's please as I don't see help forthcoming soon after that response. Cheers all



Moon

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #1 on: 05/05/2015, 12:28 PM »
I rang coffee parts this morning to be told send email "as I am not a morning person"......what no coffee? any idea's please as I don't see help forthcoming soon after that response. Cheers all

 :rofl: I can certainly relate to that  :thumb: My Sisters know not to ring before I've at least had my first coffee.
Looks like Mr Coffee Parts hadn't had his yet. Worst calls are those with difficult questions/problems or firing off a number of questions requiring some quick thought processes.

Sounds like you'd get a better response, and possible solutions from this d00d after the blood warms up and starts pumping it to his brain.

Good luck

ps. 1 coffee is minimum .. 2 is preferred  8)

Fresh Coffee

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #2 on: 05/05/2015, 01:36 PM »
Hi.

without seeing the machine on the bench  it is difficult to offer any advice is to why the exhaust valve is not operating, however from what you have written it does seem to not be working. And of course that will be for the retailer as it may be a warrantable occurence.

However with regard to the group handle not going back on....this will be because when the group handle was removed (under pressure, due to  exhaust valve not operating) from the group, the sudden aggressive pressure release blew/ dislodged / displaced the shower and group seal.

There are a couple of ways to deal with that:

a) just push them (shower/seal) back "home" OR
b) remove them completely, clean the area of thoroughly of recalcitrant grinds, THEN refit them.

Regardless of which, this is how to refit the shower/group seal:

Remove the coffee filter (basket) from the group handle (pordafilta).
Try and "even up" the posi of the shower/seal as much as you can with your fingers
Engage and insert the filterless group handle into the group (it will go in if the dislodged filter/seal are roughly even round the group area and are  atleast partially pushed into place).
Turn the group handle as far as you can to the right.

That operation pushes the seal home evenly, into its locating groove in the bottom of the group (as long as there isn't a bunch of coffee grinds in there acting like packing material and stopping the seal going all the way back into its posi...).

Put the filter back into the group handle and lock it in again....it should now stop in the same position in the group as it did before all this happened.

Then you still need to contact your retailer re the group exhaust valve.

Hope that helps.
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mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #3 on: 05/05/2015, 02:54 PM »
Hi.

without seeing the machine on the bench  it is difficult to offer any advice is to why the exhaust valve is not operating, however from what you have written it does seem to not be working. And of course that will be for the retailer as it may be a warrantable occurence.

However with regard to the group handle not going back on....this will be because when the group handle was removed (under pressure, due to  exhaust valve not operating) from the group, the sudden aggressive pressure release blew/ dislodged / displaced the shower and group seal.

There are a couple of ways to deal with that:

a) just push them (shower/seal) back "home" OR
b) remove them completely, clean the area of thoroughly of recalcitrant grinds, THEN refit them.

Regardless of which, this is how to refit the shower/group seal:

Remove the coffee filter (basket) from the group handle (pordafilta).
Try and "even up" the posi of the shower/seal as much as you can with your fingers
Engage and insert the filterless group handle into the group (it will go in if the dislodged filter/seal are roughly even round the group area and are  atleast partially pushed into place).
Turn the group handle as far as you can to the right.

That operation pushes the seal home evenly, into its locating groove in the bottom of the group (as long as there isn't a bunch of coffee grinds in there acting like packing material and stopping the seal going all the way back into its posi...).

Put the filter back into the group handle and lock it in again....it should now stop in the same position in the group as it did before all this happened.


Thanks for your reply, Coffee parts have said they will contact VBM, the information about the seal makes sense. I will do this when I have time, 2 more meetings to go today and night

Then you still need to contact your retailer re the group exhaust valve.

Hope that helps.

mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #4 on: 05/05/2015, 03:09 PM »
I have tried without basket, still no way to get the portafilter in it in It looks like I will have to take it out. I will have to wait for more info from VBM, as I don't think coffee parts seem to know. Not  much of a response from them they have my phone number the email I received said more about too early to think ...although this is the afternoon.

Brett H

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #5 on: 05/05/2015, 04:31 PM »
I have tried without basket, still no way to get the portafilter in it in It looks like I will have to take it out. I will have to wait for more info from VBM, as I don't think coffee parts seem to know. Not  much of a response from them they have my phone number the email I received said more about too early to think ...although this is the afternoon.

Sorry for your pain mate.  The machine you've chosen is a tried and tested performer.  Rest assured that this will only be a minor glitch albeit a painful one while you're caffeine deprived!!!  Keep us posted.
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Fresh Coffee

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #6 on: 05/05/2015, 07:22 PM »
I have tried without basket, still no way to get the portafilter in it in It looks like I will have to take it out. I will have to wait for more info from VBM, as I don't think coffee parts seem to know. Not  much of a response from them they have my phone number the email I received said more about too early to think ...although this is the afternoon.

If you cant get the group handle in after removing the filter, then the seal has come out a fair way. Use your fingers to push it back as far as you can, while trying to keep it as "true" as possible (rather than having it hang down much further on one side than the other).  Then try again with the group handle.

If at that point the group handle still wont start to lock in, then you may as well lever the shower and seal right out of the group. Clean inside the group ring and seal groove, clean the seal and shower, and start again per my advice. Refit the seal to the shower THE CORRECT WAY AROUND (note how it goes when you remove it from around the shower), meaning the chamfered edge of the seal goes to the top, and the sharp edge to the bottom (otherwise the sharp edge will catch on the side of the seal groove in the group ring and wont allow you to push it home...).

WRT why the exhaust valve may not be operating......i am afraid there is no room for discussion and its just a waste of (your) time to "wait for more info from VBM". Even if they make a suggestion about what may be causing this, it may still need to go back to them for rectification unless they are happy for you to start taking matters into your own hands with advice from them, while agreeing that will NOT affect your warranty with them...

Take it back and get them to take a look. Ascertain, before you waste your time on it, where the machine should be taken for warrantable service (as there is no point taking it to a retailer that doesnt do the service...unless they are going to deliver it to the service provider themselves, but that will add more time, not to mention the very real increased likelihood of damage in transit). 

Without emotion, study your warranty statement, then decide on the the most direct course of action.

Hope that helps.
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Brett H

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #7 on: 05/05/2015, 08:12 PM »
Fresh Coffee, you are a gentleman and a scholar!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #8 on: 06/05/2015, 08:25 PM »
Fresh Coffee, you are a gentleman and a scholar!
 

Thank you for the advise, I have emailed them ,phoned them for no reply, he is always unavailable "Pedro" I will ring and ask to speak to the manager tomorrow, they are avoiding me the only email I got was send video of  ? Nothing to video if nothing ..not a drop coming out of the exhaust valve I replied to the email and have no answer. I will be getting them to take it back at there expense I am half way between Melbourne and Sydney so no one to carry out warranty work. I am sure I have the right to do so. What a disappointment these people are. I think Fresh Coffee is right about having to take the shower screen out but I do not want to risk the warranty. Thankfully I still have by Breville BES 900.

On another issue, it has always had a very wet top to the puck when removing it the puck it self is hard enough to break in  two but the top millimetre is always wet and mushy. Would this indicate that the  pressure release was not working as it should?

Fresh Coffee

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #9 on: 06/05/2015, 09:19 PM »
Brett,

I always appreciate your kind words and sent you a PM.

mallacoota, removing and refitting the shower screen and under cup washer (group seal) will not void your warranty:
a) it is part of normal service intervention both during and after any warranty period and IS a user serviceable item and
b) if you dont remove, clear the area and refit the shower and seal, you cant use the machine to produce the video sought by your retailer (?).

Go ahead and do that, it is not part of the real problem, just a tangential occurence. And it will result in your machine not remaining totally incapacitated (which just makes you feel worse about the situation and or makes the situation seem worse).

Coffee equipment consumer psychologist hat on....

If I may reiterate something that I may have written above (or not?)...read your warranty statetemt and find out who is directly  responsible for the warrantable service and follow the protocol. That should in theory speed up the process for you. ie...can you call the importer direct or do you have to talk to your retailer (?) concerning ALL your service needs. Who is supposed to be carrying the can here, cut to the chase, and hopefully save yourself some angst.

Hope that helps.

EDIT:
Dont know if this is allowed here but I just did a quick search on ewechoob and found this video straight away. The coffee brew depicted is not "standard" and I am not making any comment on that one way or another, the point however is if you advance the video to 1.35 min and watch from there. At 1.45 the pour is stopped and you will see the activation of the group exhaust / pressure relief cycle, and something similar to that is what your machine should be doing.

Again, suggest you refit the shower/seal and compare to this clip, and make your video for your service provider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF8B2qc2q7I
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mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #10 on: 08/05/2015, 12:19 PM »
Well I spoke to Salvatore at coffee parts, after replacing the seal and shower screen and we worked out the problem. He was helpful and sent diagrams and it came down to the large nut holding the exhaust valve it is about 38-40 mm was not tight it moved about an inch or so, after that every thing was fine thanks to every body's input.

Brett H

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #11 on: 08/05/2015, 05:36 PM »
Thank heavens! 

Was the machine working perfectly for you before this issue or was this an 'out of the box' issue??

Happy coffee trails mate!!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #12 on: 08/05/2015, 06:21 PM »
Thank heavens! 

Was the machine working perfectly for you before this issue or was this an 'out of the box' issue??

Happy coffee trails mate!!


The only out of the box  issue was the top of the puck was wet,mushy but not the rest of it which snapped in 2 like it should

Moon

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #13 on: 08/05/2015, 09:02 PM »

Ahh .. a happy ending. Ol' Coffee Parts must've come good after about 30 0r 40 shots. Bit of a wait .. but was worth it in the end by the looks.

What would the wet top of the puck be due to .. if the rest is solid? My guess - dose a bit lows and needs to top up. Tamp at end firmer?

mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #14 on: 12/05/2015, 07:47 AM »
Ahh .. a happy ending. Ol' Coffee Parts must've come good after about 30 0r 40 shots. Bit of a wait .. but was worth it in the end by the looks.

What would the wet top of the puck be due to .. if the rest is solid? My guess - dose a bit lows and needs to top up. Tamp at end firmer?
I am not sure but since the exhaust valve was tightened no problem any more

Kevohere

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #15 on: 12/05/2015, 08:14 AM »

The only out of the box  issue was the top of the puck was wet,mushy but not the rest of it which snapped in 2 like it should

There's a good clarification of this "issue" here: http://baristahustle.com/for-a-good-puck/
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mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #16 on: 14/05/2015, 09:28 AM »
There's a good clarification of this "issue" here: http://baristahustle.com/for-a-good-puck/


The problem was not due to dose, just the loose exhaust valve, why I have no idea I have thought about why but still am uncertain why but the problem no longer exists now that that valve assembly has been tightened. Thanks for the info though

mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #17 on: 16/06/2015, 06:53 AM »
Well the VBM is working well, no more problems and the grinder is excellent, no mess on the bench and so easy to dial in different blends and single origins. Very happy chappy.

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #18 on: 16/06/2015, 09:01 AM »

Well the VBM is working well, no more problems and the grinder is excellent, no mess on the bench and so easy to dial in different blends and single origins. Very happy chappy.
thats great to hear Mallacoota. The vbm junior is a great machine.
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mallacoota

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #19 on: 01/12/2015, 01:11 PM »
After having the VBM junior for 6 months now I am quite happy with the machine  and the grinder I don't weigh coffee, don't time the pour, I just do every thing by eye and get consistent results. the only thing I have to get used to is filling the tank which has no visual level indicator. I have wasted a few shots by the shut off stopping half way through a pour. Yes of course this happens first thing in the morning which for me is 5-6am
     I have tried many different roasters over the years and have found none better for quality, price,variety and speed of delivery than Jeff from mycuppa. I keep going to mycuppa and have decided to stay with them. I have tried many blends and single origins from Jeff over the years and have not found to many that I did not like ..personal taste, currently drinking the amazon rainforest alliance a nice drop indeed.
 The Vario grinder suits my needs, after dialing in first shot of new blend or single origin it leaves little to no mess, I tap the portafilter on the side gently with the tamper and angle it slightly upwards on removal and most of the time there is no overflow of grinds.

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VBM hsx junior will not back flush
« Reply #20 on: 01/12/2015, 03:03 PM »
Thanks for the kind words MC......very much appreciated.



GeekKopi

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« Reply #21 on: 01/12/2015, 05:31 PM »
I've tried a few of Jeffs offering over the months too and they all have been awesome.
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