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Author Topic: Sumatran Wahana Natural  (Read 18642 times)

Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #25 on: 14/12/2012, 09:16 PM »
As I've stated a few times in other posts.
Coffee needs to develop post roast.

Everyone is entitled to do what they want to..........but personally.......... I really can't see any point at all in tasting something like an exotic Sumatran/Java/Sulawesi/Indo before day 9 or 10 - it's largely a waste of time unless the intention is to track and monitor the daily changes for some sort of experiment.

Particularly with those specific origins, where you start and finish can be completely different with the likelihood of having a few wrong turns and detours thrown in between.

I fully agree with what my cuppa posted & I often express my opinion in similar ways

Anyway a report on my Wahana
Wahana roasted 9th Dec 2012 = 5 whole days post roast
Roast level light = just on first crack

Aroma of beans in the bag is like overpowering ripe fruit
Aroma of beans ground is like fermenting grapes in vats
Aroma of the spent puck is hot and steamy fermenting grapes in vats
None of the aromas were subtle in any way

Coffee pulled on a Strega Lever
Coffee Ground on a BNZ conical

Coffee style made was a Ristreto
Taste of Ristreto was dominated with citrus notes much like lots of PNG type beans but a little milder

Taste with milk is like mild unsweetened fruit cake with a hint of caramel
Mouthfeel was very wet and creamy on the pallet

That's it so far I will report again on day ten if it lasts that long  :angel:

KK



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Brett H

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« Reply #26 on: 14/12/2012, 09:54 PM »
Holy 3rd gesticulation KK... You are a seriously brave man: "roast level light"!  Would you be so kind as to share your modes operandi  :coffee2:

As I've stated a few times in other posts.
Coffee needs to develop post roast.

Everyone is entitled to do what they want to..........but personally.......... I really can't see any point at all in tasting something like an exotic Sumatran/Java/Sulawesi/Indo before day 9 or 10 - it's largely a waste of time unless the intention is to track and monitor the daily changes for some sort of experiment.

Particularly with those specific origins, where you start and finish can be completely different with the likelihood of having a few wrong turns and detours thrown in between.


Thank you Jeff... I'm a believer!

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Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #27 on: 14/12/2012, 10:10 PM »
Holy 3rd gesticulation KK... You are a seriously brave man: "roast level light"!  Would you be so kind as to share your modes operandi   :coffee2:

Brett I will repost in a quote my post from the roasting thread

Roasted today on the KKTO

700 gr of Sumatran Wahana  Naturals

First crack 10 min second crack 16 min and pulled
So it's a lighter roast than I normally do

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Mazzer Robur conical grinder Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster:

Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

LaSanMarco Melbourne

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« Reply #28 on: 14/12/2012, 10:29 PM »
I fully agree with what my cuppa posted & I often express my opinion in similar ways

Anyway a report on my Wahana
Wahana roasted 9th Dec 2012 = 5 whole days post roast
Roast level light = just on first crack

Aroma of beans in the bag is like overpowering ripe fruit
Aroma of beans ground is like fermenting grapes in vats
Aroma of the spent puck is hot and steamy fermenting grapes in vats
None of the aromas were subtle in any way

Coffee pulled on a Strega Lever
Coffee Ground on a BNZ conical

Coffee style made was a Ristreto
Taste of Ristreto was dominated with citrus notes much like lots of PNG type beans but a little milder

Taste with milk is like mild unsweetened fruit cake with a hint of caramel
Mouthfeel was very wet and creamy on the pallet

That's it so far I will report again on day ten if it lasts that long  :angel:

KK
Tim - La San Marco Melbourne

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« Reply #29 on: 14/12/2012, 10:31 PM »
Ooh sorry, just trying to work out how to quote on new iPad.

KK, I'm guessing you meant just on 2nd crack.........
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Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #30 on: 14/12/2012, 10:42 PM »
Ooh sorry, just trying to work out how to quote on new iPad.

KK, I'm guessing you meant just on 2nd crack.........


That's correct

I normally roast darker, but for the evaluation it was prudent to roast light & just on the cusp of first crack first up
On the weekend I will let the roast go past second crack for a darker roast and see how that goes ?

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Mazzer Robur conical grinder Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster:

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JamesM

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« Reply #31 on: 15/12/2012, 01:34 AM »
As I've stated a few times in other posts.
Coffee needs to develop post roast.

Everyone is entitled to do what they want to..........but personally.......... I really can't see any point at all in tasting something like an exotic Sumatran/Java/Sulawesi/Indo before day 9 or 10 - it's largely a waste of time unless the intention is to track and monitor the daily changes for some sort of experiment.

Particularly with those specific origins, where you start and finish can be completely different with the likelihood of having a few wrong turns and detours thrown in between.

I guess this is where I somewhat disagree. Roasts for cupping should be roasted approx 30sec past 1st crack (no where near 2nd crack). The roasted coffee should ideally be 'cupped' within 24hrs, with a preferable 8hrs rest.

Where I do agree, is darker roasts, more suited to espresso. I absolutely let my roasts rest for at least 3-days before brewing (or more). I suppose your comments are more aimed at espresso roasts.

Almost all of my roasts for filter brewing are roasted around 30-90sec past 1st crack or somewhere inside rolling first crack.

I've roasted and brewed (for filter) coffee on the same day, but MOST of the time I will brew it the next day.

Those darker roasts are indeed a different beast. If I was consuming that within 24 hrs it would just taste like roast.

I used to roast all my 'espresso' batches to 2nd crack, these days I pull them just prior (around big smoke-plume time) or right on the first signs of 2nd crack.

Lately I've been working on roast profiles to suit various brew methods, espresso and filter. It's really not easy, but it can be done, sometimes, hehe.

I know all coffee is different, as are people. Personal preference and taste rules every time!

I'm very keen to roast some up for espresso and see what I get out of it.
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UNM

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« Reply #32 on: 15/12/2012, 09:12 AM »
I guess this is where I somewhat disagree. Roasts for cupping should be roasted approx 30sec past 1st crack (no where near 2nd crack). The roasted coffee should ideally be 'cupped' within 24hrs, with a preferable 8hrs rest.

Where I do agree, is darker roasts, more suited to espresso. I absolutely let my roasts rest for at least 3-days before brewing (or more). I suppose your comments are more aimed at espresso roasts.

Almost all of my roasts for filter brewing are roasted around 30-90sec past 1st crack or somewhere inside rolling first crack.

I've roasted and brewed (for filter) coffee on the same day, but MOST of the time I will brew it the next day.

Those darker roasts are indeed a different beast. If I was consuming that within 24 hrs it would just taste like roast.

I used to roast all my 'espresso' batches to 2nd crack, these days I pull them just prior (around big smoke-plume time) or right on the first signs of 2nd crack.

your roasting style sounds broadly similar to mine.

I can attest to the fact KK tends to roast a lot darker and (so far as I can tell) with much less variation as he hardly ever strays from espresso shots into the world of brewed coffee. What Kk calls a light roast, I would call a dark roast.


The trouble with broad terms like light/dark is that they mean different things to different people.

I have recently tried a few darker espresso roasts with quite pleasing outcomes, going faster to second crack and pull just at R2C.
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Brett H

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« Reply #33 on: 15/12/2012, 09:22 AM »
Thanks for the discussion guys.  I had no idea that cupping roasts were roasted this light.  I too can attest to the fact that KK's roasts are generally much darker and consistently delicious!  This is why I was bold enough to ask him 'why so light'?  He knows that I have tasted his fabulous roasts and time and time again they are superb... So good I too have a KKTO.
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Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #34 on: 15/12/2012, 09:47 AM »
I think its best that I post a photo of the light roast for reference  :thumb:
[attach=1]


KK
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JamesM

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« Reply #35 on: 15/12/2012, 10:32 AM »
I agree that's reasonably light. perhaps "city". Looks great :)

damnit, I'm gonna go brew right now. haha
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« Reply #36 on: 20/12/2012, 08:16 AM »
so how is it tasting?
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derrilex

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« Reply #37 on: 20/12/2012, 08:41 AM »
I think its best that I post a photo of the light roast for reference  :thumb:
[attach=1]


KK

I'd call that barely roasted  :D

Brett H

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« Reply #38 on: 20/12/2012, 10:39 AM »
so how is it tasting?

As a short black it is fabulous!  The pour is still overly tight and the fine grind required would test many budget grinders I think. Your Rosco would no doubt do a beautiful job and I reckon you'd love the mouthfeel.  Time for a working bee at Lacheim's place! :D
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« Reply #39 on: 20/12/2012, 02:43 PM »
As a short black it is fabulous!  The pour is still overly tight and the fine grind required would test many budget grinders I think. Your Rosco would no doubt do a beautiful job and I reckon you'd love the mouthfeel.  Time for a working bee at Lacheim's place! :D

I actually got a little from Micheal and just tried an afternoon shot of it.  the Rosco soon told me it is a soft bean. with a lovely smell roasted by Lacehim himself.

but it was too late as the grind was already set to normal (should have been finer as all soft beans run fast with me anyway)  I should have read your posts about the grind setting!

I give it a pre-infusion and when I started to ramp up it was already flowing too fast at only 4 bar so I just left it there rather then sink it as I wanted to taste something so I tried to save it.

the shot still tasted surprisingly good despite the low pressure extraction it was very Sweet with nice mouth feel but I am sure could have been much better with a finer grind and a proper extraction.

I think I have just enough left for one more shot maybe.

now I will know just how to grind it.

And Brett- you might want to try it on your manual Lever, soft beans respond well to lower pressures and pre-infusions

Hoping to meet up with Lacehim Friday!
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Brett H

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« Reply #40 on: 20/12/2012, 05:37 PM »
Will do, and I'll report back with what I find!
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C-man

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« Reply #41 on: 20/12/2012, 07:17 PM »
I did a second shot tight with much finer grind

a perfect 9 bar shot 30ml in 30 seconds

but for some unknown reason it did not taste any good.

figure that one out?
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Brett H

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« Reply #42 on: 20/12/2012, 11:23 PM »
When were the beans roasted C-Man?  I reckon this is coming good after 7 days!
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« Reply #43 on: 21/12/2012, 12:31 PM »
I think I'm gonna brew some of this over ice with a 'filter roast'. The ripe berry and watermelon just has to be a hit with ice :)
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« Reply #44 on: 21/12/2012, 02:11 PM »
When were the beans roasted C-Man?  I reckon this is coming good after 7 days!

Roasted on the 10th

Lacehim did say it was a dark roast..

If he has any left I will see what a shot tastes like on the Quickmill  hopefully this afternoon 3:pm
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« Reply #45 on: 23/12/2012, 05:48 PM »
Pulled the last of it today, a perfect shot.

tasted good, I enjoyed it, a lively Indo

 but not a patch on the only other Suma I have tried that was My Cuppa's Lake Tawar

Jeff's one had similar Indo spice but way way sweeter and lots of caramel and just more body.
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« Reply #46 on: 24/12/2012, 10:31 AM »
Really starting to enjoy this at day 9, far different from day 4!!  I think as Brett said, this one needs a super fine grind.  As Jeff said which raised all our eyes was this is midori in a cup and he is spot on.  The fruit smell is intense, sweet and rounds off nicely.  This bean is totally different to Lake Tawar which I enjoyed immensely and I dont think you can compare the two as their profiles are so different.

I only have 6.4kg of greens of this one left, so I am going to enjoy it over the next 12 months or so ;)

I probably have enough to drink out to day 14, but thinking I will substitute tomorrow in the grinder with some Eth Sidamo for the guests as I want to explore the Wahana by my precious self ;)


 

Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #47 on: 24/12/2012, 10:51 AM »
A Wahana report on 10 days to 14 days post roast ( don't forget it's a light roast )
I have been drinking it daily and have observed

1) The intense aromas have settled and muted a little
2) The flavour profile is more of a balanced mixed fruity flavour with a little chocolate / cocoa coming through

Although nice after a prolonged rest time  I feel that my roast level was more suited to brewed methods
Next roast will be to second crack as I normally roast and see what differences come to the surface

KK
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JamesM

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« Reply #48 on: 24/12/2012, 04:25 PM »
KK, very nice!

I'm enjoying mixed (ripe) berries, really obvious watermelon, and even a real fresh, almost cucumber?? hint.

There's a mild spice, earth, and maybe cinnamon...

Mine is roasted v'light, about 45 sec in to first crack. Enjoyed thus far on v60 and syphon.

Will be roasting some much darker next round to give the spro a go!
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« Reply #49 on: 08/01/2013, 06:12 PM »
Just trying my first roast of the Wahana, its 6 days old so a little fresh, i roasted mine to just the start of C2, i am finding it surprisingly rounded and smooth. No single flavour dominating at this stage. In some ways more like a good brazilian than a typically Indo bean.

Adjusted the grinder finer before pulling a shot based on the previous posts and it proved to be the right move, I rarely have to adjust the K10 but this bean requires a step change.

Will be interested to see how it develops over the next week.
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