Coffee Forum

Please login or register.

BeanGreen

Author Topic: Water Filtration / Conditioning  (Read 10040 times)

Fresh Coffee

  • Sponsor
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Gender: Male
  • AICA Champion Australian Roaster 2016
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« on: 11/01/2016, 08:46 AM »
For me it is that time of year again (changing out water filters) and I thought it might be a timely reminder to all to take good care of their water supply including those with rain water tanks.

My own system is equipped in this way:

ALL water coming from the rain water tanks is filtered upon exit (call it a pre-filter if you wish) through a 20 micron 10” x 4.5 “ pleated filter. A 20” x 4.5” is even better.

The drinking water fountain at the kitchen sink takes care of what we....drink, and it is made up of:
A 1 micron 10” x 2.5” pleated;
A 1 micron 10” x 2.5” Silver granulated activated carbon filter (fits in a 2.5” can as per the pleated filter);
A UV light can.

Bingo...excellent drinking water, free of bird and reptile poops, dusts, pollens, leaves and other rubbish, cockroach, insect and spider residues and carcases, mosquito larvae etc etc etc etc etc. that sits on the roof catchment and or in the tanks.

Pleated filters are simply particle filters. The silver activated carbon filter takes care of odours, tastes, & most bacteria's. The UV light takes care of viruses and possibly anything that the carbon filter missed...

Ergo we drink chryptosporidium, giardia and crap free water, that also happens to tastes great (very neutral unaffected by “added” flavours...very good for karffee)...

Hope that helps.

A couple of photos later, showing what the filters trap.


http://www.beanroasters.com.au

Australia's Most Awarded Coffee Roaster
53 coffee awards 2016; 35 coffee awards 2015.

Importer of BFC espresso machines in Australia

Brett H

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
  • Gender: Male
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #1 on: 11/01/2016, 09:10 AM »
That's a wonderful setup.  My filter change-over happens in February but there is some doubt over the scale inhibiting power of my filter despite its advertised effectiveness.  My tests strips come up,at under 40ppm but there is a bit of scale in my machine and in my jug!  Not huge but worthy of my concern!

Thanks for posting!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Fresh Coffee

  • Sponsor
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Gender: Male
  • AICA Champion Australian Roaster 2016
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #2 on: 11/01/2016, 03:09 PM »
You're welcome. Mine does not do scale as we dont have an appreciable problem with that here. My electric jug is about a year old, used daily, and literally looks like new inside with nice shiny chrome looking element and bright white plastic. No residue at all (using only water from the drinking water fountain, as per coffee machine).

Here is what the filters trap.

Note the inside of the 20 micron prefilter at the tank, and while it is scummy on the outside, the inside looks good. Note however that the 2nd in line (the first 01 micron) does show some discolouration on the outside when placed next to the new white one.

Note the 3rd in line filter (the silver one) is hard to pick between the old one and the new replacement.

All this is just for people to make up their own minds from some real life observations, and please note it is imperative for people to also condition their water for scale, if that is a concern in your individual areas. EG while it isn't a problem for me at home on my own tank supply, it certainly is a problem in the nearby towns in their town water supplies (with one of them having a huge problem with scale).
http://www.beanroasters.com.au

Australia's Most Awarded Coffee Roaster
53 coffee awards 2016; 35 coffee awards 2015.

Importer of BFC espresso machines in Australia

Moon

  • Java Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 874
  • Gender: Male
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #3 on: 11/01/2016, 03:37 PM »

I use a single bench top filter. The one I have chosen is the Matrix CTO which is a 5 micron .. designed as a combo sediment & carbon filter.
Made in USA - $23 ea

http://www.kxtech.com/App_Docs/NewLit/MATRIKX(R)%20CTO(R)%205%202%2011%20LOW%20RES.pdf

Ideally, it would be better to have the seperate filter for sediment .. twin setup under the bench - only the single seems to be going fine (after around 5 months)

Previously tried a Doulton ceramic filter for around $70. The sediment clogged it .. and water volume dropped. Supposed to be able to wash these .. only I wasn't happy with the result and replaced it. Being a solo act .. I try to get 12 months out of them.

Brett H

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
  • Gender: Male
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #4 on: 11/01/2016, 09:45 PM »
Good lord FC... You have an issue with frozen water??  Queensland mind blown!

P.s thanks for the photos, it's great to see how folks setup their filtration.

I use a single cartridge: http://shop.aquastream.com.au/zip-28002-triple-action-filter-150mm
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Fresh Coffee

  • Sponsor
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Gender: Male
  • AICA Champion Australian Roaster 2016
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #5 on: 14/01/2016, 10:00 PM »
For the unbelievers.

This is the crap collected today in the sieve at the point of entry of one of the tanks. That was after only a 6.5 ml. squirt, just enough to clean off the roof, gutter and downpipe areas, but happy for anything that huey sends our way... ;)

While I was checking one of the other tanks, a frog jumped out of the tank outlet. We know they are there....and there is quite a build up of frog defacation on the ledge....

And some people still dont see the need to filter their drinking water...
http://www.beanroasters.com.au

Australia's Most Awarded Coffee Roaster
53 coffee awards 2016; 35 coffee awards 2015.

Importer of BFC espresso machines in Australia

Brett H

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
  • Gender: Male
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #6 on: 15/01/2016, 10:42 AM »
Oh dear.... There goes breakfast...
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

GeekKopi

  • Resident Home Barista
  • Java Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 745
  • Gender: Male
  • Obsessive Coffee Disorder
    • Espresso Life
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #7 on: 23/01/2016, 08:03 AM »
Oh my. That's discussing.

Which reminds we. My machine is due for an annual service soon. I don't use filtered tap water as my water is soft but I'm sure there is some scale build up.
--
GeekKopi
VBM Domobar Jnr: Macap M2M
Web: www.facebook.com/EspressoLifeAU
Contact: http://tiny.cc/contact_espressolife

Dinsdale

  • Junior Barista
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Gender: Male
  • G'day from WA
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #8 on: 10/08/2016, 05:29 PM »
Is anyone still looking at this thread?  I wonder.  Any'ow:

I live in a rural town with particularly awful water.  Hard and crappy tasting!  My kettle was quite scaled up and the water tasted even worse from it.  I was concerned about my coffee machine.  I fitted a 4 stage reverse osmosis under-sink filter system, with a separate small faucet on the sink.  Took me about 3 hours to install, but I'm no plumber.  Total cost (including freight) was only $369 from these guys https://www.psifilters.com.au/undersink-reverse-osmosis-systems/10055-4-stage-reverse-osmosis-under-sink-unit-standard-model-021-4s.html but I see the price has gone up now.  The 3 filters are changed annually and the r/o screen every 5 years.  I've settled on doing mine in 4 years as my water is particularly bad.

Within about 10 days the kettle (stainless steel) was shining better than new on the inside and the water tasted really nice.   Seeing how the kettle cleaned up all by itself gives me considerable confidence that the coffee machine is also sparkling clean inside

We use the r/o filtered water for all of our drinking and cooking, and life's good!
Hard to recommend anything else from my point of view.

Brett H

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
  • Gender: Male
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #9 on: 10/08/2016, 06:11 PM »
I'm glad you're happy mate.  Just beware that water that is too de-mineralised is bad for the insides of your machines.  Sometimes pays to add a bit of unfiltered water back into the mix otherwise fill probes and such stop working.  Somebody much cleverer than me will hopefully come along and tell me I'm wrong or why I might be right.  Pressure and Heat are obvious factors in the chemical change. 

Thanks for the links.... that's an unbeatable price, even the updated one!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Koffee Kosmo

  • Old Coffee Fella
  • ******
  • Posts: 4405
  • Gender: Male
  • Espresso Yourself
    • koffeekosmo.com
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #10 on: 10/08/2016, 08:33 PM »
I use the wellness filter system and have done so for many years

One point to note is that after the system filters the water it then remineralises as a final stage

@ Dinsdale
RO water is to pure for coffee machines sensor systems as RO water its not as electrically conductive as mineralised water

So if you know your water tank is full and the machine won't switch on - add a glass of tap water and it should work  :thumb:

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Mazzer Robur conical grinder Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster:

Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Dinsdale

  • Junior Barista
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Gender: Male
  • G'day from WA
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #11 on: 11/08/2016, 05:43 PM »
Thanx for the heads up KK.  Will definitely keep that one in mind.  I had no idea that the water could be too pure.

Brett H

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
  • Gender: Male
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #12 on: 11/08/2016, 06:18 PM »
Two years ago I too replaced my filtration system to prevent scale.  I purchased water hardness test strips to ensure that the water was in the 40ppm zone which was recommended by my local plumbing supplies shop!  These guys service a couple of good local cafes and came highly recommended (barista was a hipster)! 
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Dinsdale

  • Junior Barista
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Gender: Male
  • G'day from WA
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #13 on: 12/08/2016, 04:08 PM »
Thanx for the heads up KK.  Will definitely keep that one in mind.  I had no idea that the water could be too pure.
My interest being piqued, today I had an in depth look at the insides (not into the boilers) of MY machine.  Bear in mind that what I'm going to say is specifically about MY machine (Profitec Pro 700) but will most certainly pertain also to quite a few others.  Check yours for the same or similar mechanisms.

My water level tx is simply a magnet fixed to a float in the water near a garden variety hall effect sensor in the machine.
Hard to tell exactly what the temp txs are, but my bet (90+%) is thermocouples - cheap(ish) and very accurate.
The pressure gauges are simple, garden variety bourdon tubes.

So, for MY particular machine, ultra-clean r/o filtered water will be fine for life.  In fact will be best.

However, what KK said (above) would very definitely hold true if you own a Breville BES900 for instance.  I've emphasized MY machine because it's not necessarily going to be true for yours.  I'm not wishing to undermine KK's advice (above), just letting you know that some are different.  If you have no way of finding out about your machine then follow KK's advice.  It'd work fine on my machine too.  I have the advantage of being an Avionics Technician and a Scientific Instrument Maker and Repairer.

Koffee Kosmo

  • Old Coffee Fella
  • ******
  • Posts: 4405
  • Gender: Male
  • Espresso Yourself
    • koffeekosmo.com
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #14 on: 12/08/2016, 04:42 PM »
If you have a manual float type low water level switch off system then RO or any water water will be OK

Most machines have an open circuit electrical cut off switch
This works when the water itself is part of the electrical conduction between two switch points
So if the water covers the switch points you have a cuircuit
And when the water falls below the switch points you then have an open cuircuit and the machine cuts off power

A word of warning on RO water
RO water is classed as hungry water - That translates to mean that it will "" Chase ""  to revert to its natural state ( ph Ballance ) by drawing in any mineral available to it to revert

This also applies to human consumption
If you consume ( drink ) RO water the water will try to revert to its natural state by sucking out anything that it needs from your body
I'm sure that research has been done on this subject to cross reference if I am a little off in my explanation

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Mazzer Robur conical grinder Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster:

Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Fresh Coffee

  • Sponsor
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Gender: Male
  • AICA Champion Australian Roaster 2016
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #15 on: 12/08/2016, 05:12 PM »
a) boilers level probe/s

b) corrosion
http://www.beanroasters.com.au

Australia's Most Awarded Coffee Roaster
53 coffee awards 2016; 35 coffee awards 2015.

Importer of BFC espresso machines in Australia

Brett H

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 4826
  • Gender: Male
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #16 on: 12/08/2016, 05:32 PM »
a) boilers level probe/s

b) corrosion

See... That's what I meant! 
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

K_Bean_Coffee

  • Senior Barista
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • www.kbean.com.au
    • K Bean Coffee
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #17 on: 12/08/2016, 10:41 PM »
Hi guys,
I used to work in a lab in Melbourne and look after the water treatment.
The system we used to get lab quality water was 20 micron particle filters followed by carbon filters followed by 5 then 1 micron particle filters.  Final step was a DI resin tank.
There is a home system developed to do pretty much as described above, designed for espresso machine use.  It's called the Brita purity C150.  That's what I use and recommend.
Cheers - Paul :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

askthe coffeeguy

  • On the endless quest for espresso excellence ...
  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • Gender: Male
  • rancilio epoca (modded), mazzer SJ, gene cafe
    • hey brew coffee to you!
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #18 on: 14/08/2016, 09:40 AM »
im on rain water weve got dual carbon filters coming off the tank leading into the house and then all drinking water gets filtered via a ceramic bench top water filter and two seperate water jugs so our water is twice filtered before each use, and gutters etc are cleared once pere month!

and yes, water tastes amazing, as does the coffee!
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

K_Bean_Coffee

  • Senior Barista
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • www.kbean.com.au
    • K Bean Coffee
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #19 on: 21/08/2016, 06:10 PM »
im on rain water

and yes, water tastes amazing, as does the coffee!
Rainwater - nice :)

askthe coffeeguy

  • On the endless quest for espresso excellence ...
  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • Gender: Male
  • rancilio epoca (modded), mazzer SJ, gene cafe
    • hey brew coffee to you!
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #20 on: 31/08/2016, 12:18 AM »
Have to say it's probably better for the coffee machine too - less mineral hardness, plus the coffee seems to taste sweeter as a result!
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

West Village

  • Barista
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Gender: Male
  • Hi I am new here
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #21 on: 01/03/2017, 10:05 PM »
Hi guys,

I live in Sydney and was hoping for some advice on this for my area. I've attached a Sydney water analysis from my closest resovoir. It shows the total hardness in a range of 47-63ppm .if I am reading the report correctly. Do I need to be concerned about filtration in my area?

If so, the other complicating issue is that I will be shortly living in a rental property and I'm not sure if I can attach any under sink filters ( if I need to in the first place) so are there any recommendations for more portable solutions ?

Paul (kbean) mentioned the Brita purity, is that a portable solution?

Sorry, this is a whole new world to me!
I love it how coffee tricks me into thinking I'm in a good mood for exactly 27 minutes.

Koffee Kosmo

  • Old Coffee Fella
  • ******
  • Posts: 4405
  • Gender: Male
  • Espresso Yourself
    • koffeekosmo.com
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #22 on: 01/03/2017, 10:22 PM »
Hi guys,

I live in Sydney and was hoping for some advice on this for my area. I've attached a Sydney water analysis from my closest resovoir. It shows the total hardness in a range of 47-63ppm .if I am reading the report correctly. Do I need to be concerned about filtration in my area?

If so, the other complicating issue is that I will be shortly living in a rental property and I'm not sure if I can attach any under sink filters ( if I need to in the first place) so are there any recommendations for more portable solutions ?

Paul (kbean) mentioned the Brita purity, is that a portable solution?

Sorry, this is a whole new world to me!

The system you decide to get is dependant on how much water that you use
Calculate your frequency or litres required

A Brita system is fine but it will compete with drinking water use as well

I will recomend a system that you can use in a rental property without any issues

I use a Welness System but other similar systems can also be suitable
The system I favour for you is a bench top filtration system
This connects to the end of your kitchen tap and you flip a lever or press a button and filtered water is dispensed
Flip it back and normal water is flowing
It has equal filtering capability as a full system and can be converted into an under sink system in the future

There is also another bench top filter where the filter has an attached tap
https://www.bunnings.com.au/stefani-bench-top-water-filter_p5091309

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Mazzer Robur conical grinder Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster:

Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

K_Bean_Coffee

  • Senior Barista
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • www.kbean.com.au
    • K Bean Coffee
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #23 on: 01/03/2017, 10:44 PM »
Great Advice KK.  Cheers :)

West Village

  • Barista
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Gender: Male
  • Hi I am new here
Water Filtration / Conditioning
« Reply #24 on: 02/03/2017, 05:38 AM »
Thanks KK really helpful advice! Looks like a trip to Bunnings for me over the weekend!

In general though how does Sydney's water stack up to the rest of the country? Which state/area has the best tap water ( I guess from a softness point of view ) as that seems to be what affects espresso machines.

I love it how coffee tricks me into thinking I'm in a good mood for exactly 27 minutes.

Bezzera

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
4986 Views
Last post 01/03/2006, 04:59 PM
by Fresh Coffee
4 Replies
2945 Views
Last post 11/04/2007, 11:45 AM
by dan480
0 Replies
1498 Views
Last post 23/06/2004, 06:42 PM
by lars
2 Replies
1876 Views
Last post 09/09/2005, 11:23 AM
by AmyK
6 Replies
4453 Views
Last post 25/10/2010, 11:06 AM
by Dry bean.

coffee