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Bezzera

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1
Espresso Machines / Re: Lever Espresso Machines
« Last post by West Village on Yesterday at 04:34 PM »
For those of you interested in the Flair signature model ( the shiny chrome and copper version). I just emailed the creator of the flair "Sergio", top bloke and very responsive to queries. He said that he had just mailed out a whole bunch of signature models to their Australian distributor whom he said should have them available any day now. I won't mention the distributor here in case I breach site policy.

Also asked Sergio if he had any plans for a wall mount version or adapter of some sort to allow this functionality. Whilst it wasn't on his immediate pipeline he did  encourage the flairs users to design and create it to which he would make public if deemed safe and within the design principals.

I believe a bottomless portafilter basket will be made available soon (according to HB forum). One to keep an eye on!
2
New Here? Drop in and Say Hi. / Re: I'm new here...
« Last post by admin on 17/02/2018, 07:15 PM »
Hi Dimal, welcome, good to have you on board!
3
Roasters - Different Roasting Equipment / Re: Cute Micro Roaster
« Last post by 211bma on 17/02/2018, 02:41 PM »
Kind of pretty for a roaster. Pure conduction though, wonder how the cofee tastes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
4
New Here? Drop in and Say Hi. / Re: I'm new here...
« Last post by Dimal on 17/02/2018, 12:07 AM »
Thanks mate...  ;)

I really enjoy helping others to get the best out of this terrific pastime, and will definitely spend more time in Coffee Forum with the aim of doing that, and of course, learning plenty along the way for myself. Never stop learning things about coffee...  :)

Mal.
5
Roasting - How To do it / Re: Temperature Data Loggers
« Last post by mycuppa on 16/02/2018, 08:53 PM »
LW,
There are compression fittings used to secure thermocouples into position. You could maybe use a short piece as a sleeve marker once you have your probe position ideal. Then it’s a case of just sliding it into the compression fitting until the sleeve hits the edge and maybe retrofitting a wingnut to add a bit of tension so the probe won’t move once it comes in contact with beans. Quick release and insertion.
6
Roasting - How To do it / Re: Temperature Data Loggers
« Last post by Lwowiak on 16/02/2018, 04:58 PM »
All great advice from Jeff, especially not comparing your temps with others! As long as it's consistent for you, and you have a reference point that you can work with with your particular setup, that's the most important thing.

I'm only recently getting into measuring temps, and bought a Heatsnob recently, and it really is awesome, I highly recommend it. Very responsive. And the software is completely free to download, and plenty of info on there with how to use it and any particular mods you wanna do. I like the fact that you can record comments at any particular points on the graph, comes in handy. But super simple to use!

I'm soon going to rig up my Behmor so that the probe goes directly into the drum to more accurately get the temps that the beans are going through, I think the bead-type probes are more responsive than the normal type.

I'm not sure how any other temp-measuring devices work, I've only had experience (very little) with the Heatsnob, and I'm a fan :)

Hi Simon,
Thanks for the reply, and feedback on the Heatsnob.
My challenge is to install a probe through both pots of the KKTO, and not interfere with the agitator. The probe also has to be easily removed at the end of the roast. This poses a problem as I believe that unless it can be securely "anchored" in the exact position each time, the readings will vary.
I am exploring the installation aspect with an open mind, and am seeking a practical and repeatable solution.
Lw.
7
Roasting - How To do it / Re: Temperature Data Loggers
« Last post by Lwowiak on 16/02/2018, 04:50 PM »
LW,

The best way to consider solutions for logging a roast is to segment each of the 3 core components needed in order to achieve your objectives.

1. Sensor - thermocouple
2. Bridge - device transducer or I/O conversion appliance
3. Graph software

What I suggest you do is research the various options available in each of these components so that you arrive at the solution that best suits your needs - cost, complexity, reliability, quality of end-result.

I've been logging roasts for such a long time on numerous platforms - well before it became a trend for coffee roasters. A background in electronics, process control, industrial and IT engineering helped drive the desire from the beginning.

Each topic requires research as there are many choices and decisions to be made.

Something as simple a probes - type, grounded, shielded, thickness, length (for both probe and cable), response time, etc. all influence the sort of results, accuracy and stability of the solution. As a general rule, stick with thinner, K-type probes that are more responsive, but placement is the most critical design element. Be careful to ensure the positioning will record the appropriate readings from the target source and that it's reliable and consistent so that observed and developed reference points have some form of reliable integrity. Also be careful that probes don't get damaged by agitation or operation.

Bridges are a keenly debated topic. You can start with something simple like an advanced multi-meter or take a DIY path with an Arduino. There are a myriad of possibilities, but what you need to look for is making sure the bridge works reliably, does not "hang" or "freeze" at the worst times and that noise and interference (EMI) are managed. The purpose of the bridge is to convert the resistance changes detected by the thermocouple into signals and output via USB ports that can be fed into graphing apps. Some bridges come with multi-ports that enable you to capture the environment temps or even ambient temps as well as bean temps, so this can significantly aid the roasting process as you can do things such as monitor the air temp around the bean mass and detect when it starts to drop as a leading indicator the bean temps (or Rate of Change) will stall or fall. The key to a good bridge design is for the USB connection with the computer to be robust and reliable - a critical weak link in apps many years ago.

Graphing software is the business-end of the equation. Here is where it translates into something that gives you all the important insights. What you need to look for in the application is an ability to "smooth" curves and plot lines without hiding real or valid changes ( dumbing it down ). Although nothing is worse than using graphing software that plots jumpy graphs looking like those old-fashioned seismographs with erratic lines everywhere. You need to be able to scale the graph so that the temperature ranges for your probes are drawn easily, there needs to be are features like large displays and averages for Rate of Rise, etc. The best apps overlay the graphs for bean and air temps with the RoR so you don't need to flick back and forth.

Artisan is an excellent roast scope application and it's device support is wide. There are also similar apps like RoastLogger, etc.  and more are coming onto the market - most are free.

My pro tip.......

Don't get too hung up on what temps your solution is recording by comparing it to others. Just because one person might achieve turning point at say 90 deg C and yours it at 100 C, does not mean something is wrong. Each installation is a little different and the probe implementation makes all the difference. Just ensure that you see a good range of temps between turning point and finish temp so that you know your probe is recording as close as possible the actual or likely real bean temps. Obviously, the design of your vessel and the way in which you roast make a big difference, but let's say for example you should see maybe a low of 100 C and typical dump temps of 209 - 215 C for coffees roasted just before 2nd crack.

On one of my many roasting plants I use a Cropster bridge feeding Artisan and it works a treat. I prefer to use that solution over the vendors automation package because some roaster manufacturers have no idea. My manual workaround is simple and hard work but I can beat the vendors algorithm every time.....who said humans are becoming obsolete.  On other systems it’s more complex like control of burner, drum, air, destoner, cooling, etc. in configurable steps. In our most advanced platform which is the best available (and seriously expensive), it can roast according to desired curve which is insanely geeky and cool, nothing else on the market can match this functionality and it’s like the next generation technology that very few people are using......which is surprising.

In summary, it’s my firm opinion that you cannot roast high quality with consistency by relying upon olfactory senses. I qualify this by stating it gives you a great foundation understanding but its significance is overrated - by the time you have sensed or seen something it’s too late. It’s fundamentally critical to see everything at all times and this is only possible with data logging - the single most important contributing factor why coffee quality has spiked so high in the last decade, roasters can see what’s going on instead of relying upon sight and smell.

Jeff,
Thank you so much for your detailed response. It is greatly appreciated and a wealth of information.
I have to agree with your final paragraph. I have been roasting quite well, using my senses, and this has been a great foundation to understand and learn the basics. To repeat roast profiles and maintain consistency, more information and data is required, hence my current pursuit. While my roasts are 800g to 1kg, and I do not have the challenges of a commercial roaster, it is still important to see what is happening and plan in advance. My attention to detail (sight, sound, smell, time) has resulted in some excellent roasts that I wish to repeat, but cannot do consistently without a TDL.

I roast for family and friends, and have no intention of a roasting business as it is purely a hobby and stress relief.
8
Espresso Machines / Re: Lever Espresso Machines
« Last post by Dimal on 15/02/2018, 10:13 PM »
G'day 'WV'...  :)

No need to get too caught up in semantics with using a Flair.
I use a Hario kettle, heated on an Induction Hot Plate that once it is boiled, just set it to hold the temperature at just under boiling.
The body of the Group is placed into a Pyrex jug, hot water from the kettle added and the kettle is returned to the hot plate. Depending on what you intend to make with the coffee, you can also put hot water into a cup to heat up while you grind and fill the filter basket with coffee. I use ~15g ground to a normal espresso fineness, gently tamp the coffee with the supplied Tamper, put on the shower-screen, assemble the Group, tip out the water in the cup and then apply about 15-20Kg force to the Lever. In 30-35 seconds, Voila! A great coffee awaits...  ;D

Mal.
9
Roasting - How To do it / Re: Temperature Data Loggers
« Last post by Simon on 15/02/2018, 09:28 PM »
All great advice from Jeff, especially not comparing your temps with others! As long as it's consistent for you, and you have a reference point that you can work with with your particular setup, that's the most important thing.

I'm only recently getting into measuring temps, and bought a Heatsnob recently, and it really is awesome, I highly recommend it. Very responsive. And the software is completely free to download, and plenty of info on there with how to use it and any particular mods you wanna do. I like the fact that you can record comments at any particular points on the graph, comes in handy. But super simple to use!

I'm soon going to rig up my Behmor so that the probe goes directly into the drum to more accurately get the temps that the beans are going through, I think the bead-type probes are more responsive than the normal type.

I'm not sure how any other temp-measuring devices work, I've only had experience (very little) with the Heatsnob, and I'm a fan :)
10
Roasting - How To do it / Re: Temperature Data Loggers
« Last post by mycuppa on 15/02/2018, 05:06 PM »
LW,

The best way to consider solutions for logging a roast is to segment each of the 3 core components needed in order to achieve your objectives.

1. Sensor - thermocouple
2. Bridge - device transducer or I/O conversion appliance
3. Graph software

What I suggest you do is research the various options available in each of these components so that you arrive at the solution that best suits your needs - cost, complexity, reliability, quality of end-result.

I've been logging roasts for such a long time on numerous platforms - well before it became a trend for coffee roasters. A background in electronics, process control, industrial and IT engineering helped drive the desire from the beginning.

Each topic requires research as there are many choices and decisions to be made.

Something as simple a probes - type, grounded, shielded, thickness, length (for both probe and cable), response time, etc. all influence the sort of results, accuracy and stability of the solution. As a general rule, stick with thinner, K-type probes that are more responsive, but placement is the most critical design element. Be careful to ensure the positioning will record the appropriate readings from the target source and that it's reliable and consistent so that observed and developed reference points have some form of reliable integrity. Also be careful that probes don't get damaged by agitation or operation.

Bridges are a keenly debated topic. You can start with something simple like an advanced multi-meter or take a DIY path with an Arduino. There are a myriad of possibilities, but what you need to look for is making sure the bridge works reliably, does not "hang" or "freeze" at the worst times and that noise and interference (EMI) are managed. The purpose of the bridge is to convert the resistance changes detected by the thermocouple into signals and output via USB ports that can be fed into graphing apps. Some bridges come with multi-ports that enable you to capture the environment temps or even ambient temps as well as bean temps, so this can significantly aid the roasting process as you can do things such as monitor the air temp around the bean mass and detect when it starts to drop as a leading indicator the bean temps (or Rate of Change) will stall or fall. The key to a good bridge design is for the USB connection with the computer to be robust and reliable - a critical weak link in apps many years ago.

Graphing software is the business-end of the equation. Here is where it translates into something that gives you all the important insights. What you need to look for in the application is an ability to "smooth" curves and plot lines without hiding real or valid changes ( dumbing it down ). Although nothing is worse than using graphing software that plots jumpy graphs looking like those old-fashioned seismographs with erratic lines everywhere. You need to be able to scale the graph so that the temperature ranges for your probes are drawn easily, there needs to be are features like large displays and averages for Rate of Rise, etc. The best apps overlay the graphs for bean and air temps with the RoR so you don't need to flick back and forth.

Artisan is an excellent roast scope application and it's device support is wide. There are also similar apps like RoastLogger, etc.  and more are coming onto the market - most are free.

My pro tip.......

Don't get too hung up on what temps your solution is recording by comparing it to others. Just because one person might achieve turning point at say 90 deg C and yours it at 100 C, does not mean something is wrong. Each installation is a little different and the probe implementation makes all the difference. Just ensure that you see a good range of temps between turning point and finish temp so that you know your probe is recording as close as possible the actual or likely real bean temps. Obviously, the design of your vessel and the way in which you roast make a big difference, but let's say for example you should see maybe a low of 100 C and typical dump temps of 209 - 215 C for coffees roasted just before 2nd crack.

On one of my many roasting plants I use a Cropster bridge feeding Artisan and it works a treat. I prefer to use that solution over the vendors automation package because some roaster manufacturers have no idea. My manual workaround is simple and hard work but I can beat the vendors algorithm every time.....who said humans are becoming obsolete.  On other systems it’s more complex like control of burner, drum, air, destoner, cooling, etc. in configurable steps. In our most advanced platform which is the best available (and seriously expensive), it can roast according to desired curve which is insanely geeky and cool, nothing else on the market can match this functionality and it’s like the next generation technology that very few people are using......which is surprising.

In summary, it’s my firm opinion that you cannot roast high quality with consistency by relying upon olfactory senses. I qualify this by stating it gives you a great foundation understanding but its significance is overrated - by the time you have sensed or seen something it’s too late. It’s fundamentally critical to see everything at all times and this is only possible with data logging - the single most important contributing factor why coffee quality has spiked so high in the last decade, roasters can see what’s going on instead of relying upon sight and smell.






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