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Author Topic: Do I need a KKTO?  (Read 24460 times)

Muscles

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Do I need a KKTO?
« on: 14/10/2011, 01:53 PM »
Hi All,

With my first child due in 3 weeks I have a good excuse to upgrade my roaster. The Behmor served me well, very well in fact but the small batch size slowly got to me and the chaff all over the kitchen bugged the wife so, what's a guy to do.... Get a KKTO me thinks  ;)

  • I want something that can roast 2kg a fortnight in minimal time and fuss and that I can store in the garage downstairs when not in use.
  • I want something that is easy to use, proven and cleaner to use than the behmor.
  • I want to get more control over my roasts.
  • I want to record roast profiles on my laptop.
  • I don't want to reinvent the wheel but do want to play a part in it's build/design.
  • I sold my Behmor today so the fun begins...


So is the KKTO for me? Anything I should know before I start shopping?
I have been browsing many a KKTO thread online and have had a read of KK's site but I want to know if you were to start this project today with a $1k budget what would you do? My best mate is a sparky so I'll be getting him to perform mods where necessary.

Marc


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Brett H

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« Reply #1 on: 14/10/2011, 02:04 PM »
I built my own KKTO however if I was to start this project with 1K I would just buy it from Bezzera!!!  I have one 2yo and one on the way but remembering the time (or not) around Millie's birth no project I started at that time had a completion time of under 6 months! 

Do you want coffee now?  Buy it from Bezzera!
Is your wife happy to have you mucking around in the shed revising rebuilding?  Make your own.

I have kept my Behmor but this is now my default roaster!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Gra

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Do I need a KKTO?
« Reply #2 on: 14/10/2011, 02:27 PM »
If you whant to have hands on check out KK's site and buy the parts and build it your self this would be the fastest and easy way of going about it apart from getting one complete.
 
Cheers Gra 
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Koffee Kosmo

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Do I need a KKTO?
« Reply #3 on: 14/10/2011, 03:26 PM »
You have 2 options
1) Get a complete kit that is easy to assemble or comes pre assembled at an extra cost 
2) Use select portions of the parts kit to build your own
e.g. Liner, insulation, agitator blade, High temp tubing
You can then create your own

The crucial part of the build is the volume
Any smooth (non rivet handles) 24cm pasta pot will work
However if the pots are not the same measurements as the Arcosteel  or Baccarat Classic then the shaft may need to be altered or build one to suit, as the depth of the insert is mated with the drive shaft length
With DIY you can use a stronger motor to push over 1kg and modify (re Borat) the TO and the roaster will roast 1kg at a time

KK


Bezzera Strega Lever: Mazzer Robur conical grinder Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster:

Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Muscles

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« Reply #4 on: 14/10/2011, 03:44 PM »
Sorry guys I was always intending to go with the full kit, I should have made that clearer. With the stock motor that comes with the full kit and Borat's relay/switch mod I would be able to do 900gm-1kg batches wouldn't I? I'm sure he said he did 1.2kg comfortably before being limited by the motor?

I guess by mentioning budget I was trying to find out if there are cheap/good/better/best options for me to pursue. ie if anyone had the chance to change a few components or add a mod or two what would you do?

In that budget I would need to cover:
The KKTO Kit $525
Turbo Oven $60
Relay, External Switch and Power Pack $?
USB Data Logger $80?
K-type Probe (or 2?) $??

Additionals:
Bucket/s for cooler $20
Fan to suit $?
Prospecting Seive $?
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Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #5 on: 14/10/2011, 03:59 PM »
You can build your own timber base and fit a stronger motor e.g. 12 Volt car window winder motor
I can instruct you on how to build a different base
You should be able to modify the KKTO drive shaft to suit but the rest is the same 

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Mazzer Robur conical grinder Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster:

Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

borat123

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« Reply #6 on: 14/10/2011, 05:08 PM »

Yes, I routinely roast 1kg.   My setup has the 'Frankenturbo' mod, and I still use the standard KKTO motor.  I would also suggest buying the next size up power supply (the cost is about the same), and it does make a difference.

If you want to go for larger batches up past 1kg, then you'll need to think about a bigger motor as suggested.

cheers.

Brett H

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« Reply #7 on: 14/10/2011, 05:13 PM »
Paul, you are one great guy!  How many people would offer what you are offering the home roasting community and at no financial gain for yourself!  You've research, tested, built, modified, adapted then made all of your knowledge and results available to all.  More than this you've offered to help people mod your design to suit their existing parts and budget!  Here's to KK!  8)
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Brett H

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« Reply #8 on: 14/10/2011, 05:15 PM »
I use a windscreen wiper motor however I've never gone past 800g. I may just go out this evening and give the kg a go!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Bean Flying

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Do I need a KKTO?
« Reply #9 on: 14/10/2011, 05:51 PM »
Unbiased opinion I don't own one but at that 2kg figure and limited time it makes sense to go down the path of a KKTO. Better option than a straight Coretto based solution.

My consumption is generally 2-3 roasts a week in the Hottop when I am roasting and I like the variation and time isn't that limited. so 1-1.5kg a fortnight. So this suits me.

Behmor for some is a great point and shoot solution for a lot of people but it's to hard to play with the roast for my liking.

Other option is you can always build up the forarms and do 500g batches by wooden spoon power in a bowl ;D

Muscles

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« Reply #10 on: 14/10/2011, 06:35 PM »
Bad choice of title on my behalf as I had already pretty much convinced myself on the KKTO. And the full kit gives me everything I need straight up and pays homage to Paul for all his efforts :)

KKTO Full Kit, Tiffany Turbo Oven, USB Data logger have been ordered. I will try the standard motor first and see how it copes with the 1kg batch size as it is the biggest I'll do for now but it offers piece of mind that I can upgrade it if needed later on. To do 2kg on the Behmor meant around 4hours of roasting/cooling time so this will be a big step up and will no doubt please the wife.

Borat, with your "Frankenturbo", would you do it all the same if you were to do it again? Should I take this opportunity to mod anything else? My mate will help with electrical mods but I don't want to be ringing him with "just one more thing if you can" type requests - I'd rather give him the list up-front.

Anyone else with a KKTO residing here on Crema who has modded their turbo oven?
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borat123

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« Reply #11 on: 14/10/2011, 07:50 PM »

Borat, with your "Frankenturbo", would you do it all the same if you were to do it again? Should I take this opportunity to mod anything else? My mate will help with electrical mods but I don't want to be ringing him with "just one more thing if you can" type requests - I'd rather give him the list up-front.


I find that 1kg is a sweet spot for me in more ways than one.  It's almost a set and forget on my KKTO setup, as the larger roast size with the mod means after the preheat, you just switch the element on and wait until 1C before you need to intervene and do something.

Also a 1kg roast easily fits into 2x 500gm bags and lasts me about a week or a week and a half.  As soon as one bag is gone, I go out and roast another kilo.

If I get lazy, or forget until I'm out of beans, I'll roast 2x 1kg batches.  By the time the first kg is gone, the other bags are already good for drinking...

So coming back to your question, is there anything else on my setup that I'd mod - not really.   Bigger roast batches are only good for me if I happen to be doing more for somebody else.  So I can deal with the limitation of somewhere around a kilo, as it suits my requirements 90% of the time.

You'll need to put in some type of chaff slits.  I actually never tried the pots without slits so I can't say how well it works without them - but it does do a good job with them.

Don't foget to buy a stainless type thermocouple (KK will tell you how to get one), and mount it on the base of the inner pot.  All you need is a small self tapping screw, and a couple of bits of wire to secure the braid on its run up the side of the pot.  If you get a CS meter,  don't bother with the style stick type probe as its a pain in the backside and you don't want to be drilling holes through the side of your pots.

And set yourself up with a combo vac / cooler system so you can just vac the beans straight out of the pot and into the cooler, instead of buggerising around tipping out hot beans.

Muscles

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« Reply #12 on: 16/10/2011, 09:05 AM »
KK pointed out which probe to get and the site from which it can be obtained - thanks mate ;)

Slits you say, good excuse to use my Dremel which has been idle for about a year now, anyone care to share pics of their slits  ::)

I'm hoping to knock over the cooler design/build today if I can sneak away to Bunnings...
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Brett H

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« Reply #13 on: 16/10/2011, 09:14 AM »
Muscles... For goodness sake do not get the Eco-friendly extraction fan. It takes too long to cool. I'm replacing mine! 

I did a 1kg roast yesterday and it worked well.  Its not my most even roast but this will be more about the beans than the roaster.  Lots if imperfections!  The roast was done in 22minutes to 2nd crack but then again my pot is insulated and my TO has the stupid heat shield deflector plate thingy removed.
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Muscles

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« Reply #14 on: 16/10/2011, 10:40 AM »
Ahhh Brett, I read your post after returning from Bunnings with the Arlec Eco-Friendly  :( I just plugged it in to test how much air movement it could produce and well, let's just say I'll be going back to Bunnings.
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Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #15 on: 16/10/2011, 11:10 AM »
Here is a PDF of my cooler design
(see attachment)
KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Mazzer Robur conical grinder Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster:

Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

paranomia

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« Reply #16 on: 16/10/2011, 01:10 PM »
... the Arlec Eco-Friendly ... air movement ... going back to Bunnings.

Even worse, after a while it forgets which way to blow so I couldn't even use it to make a reliable chaff extractor  :(

borat123

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« Reply #17 on: 16/10/2011, 01:23 PM »
Here's a pic of my combo vac / extractor fan cooler:







And I don't normally show my slits in public, but hey, here you go.  :o

This is an old pic before I upgraded to the double agitator and the stainless braided probe:


Muscles

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« Reply #18 on: 16/10/2011, 03:52 PM »
Thanks guys,
I have assembled the cooler and am just waiting to collect a vac from the in-laws tonight as I have been officially banned from using the Dyson.

I went with the Bunnings "Handy Pail", a HPM 360m3/hr exhaust fan (Arlec was 220m3/h)and a 25cm wire mesh sieve from hot dollar.
I cut the cord on the HP and after running it through an airtight bulk-head I wired up an in-line on/off switch.
I also bought a pool cleaning hose. Cutting the fitting off one end allowed me to make an air-tight bulk-head connection through the lid and provides a hose to get the beans out of the KKTO. Will have to see how it holds up to the heat...

When I get home with the Vac tonight I'll decide on the next step. I nearly walked out of Bunnings with a wall mount shop vac that could be fastened to the bucket making it even easier to move to and from the garage ie. less trips up and down stairs.
So far my cooler resembles Borat's one the most. I went with this design as it will allow me to dump from the KKTO and cool in the one bucket.

I'll post some pics a bit later on...
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Brett H

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« Reply #19 on: 16/10/2011, 11:56 PM »
Excellent work Marc!  Sorry to not have posted sooner but at least you could return yours.  I cut bits off of mine to it it n the bucket so a return for exchange would make an interesting comedy sketch but that's about all.  I looked again at my 1kg roast yesterday and in the clear light of day actually looks far more even that by fluoro in the shed so I am really happy.  Even better it smells wonderful so once again thank you KK for a roaster that will do 1kg beautifully and doesn't cost 5K!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Muscles

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« Reply #20 on: 17/10/2011, 11:42 AM »
No worries Brett, I am always up for another run to BUnnings  :D
Father in-law was very sick last night so I didn't bug him about the vac. I think I'll get the wall mount Ozito shop-vac and mount it on my BBQ under the side ledge so I have a roaster/balcony vac always ready for use and this will make it easier to get roasting with less trips to and from the garage and I can do away with the broom.

Here's where I am at with the cooler

Bucket with bulkhead installed for the fans power cable:


Seive above the fan:


Lid and pool cleaning hose:


I'm going to hunt around for a nozzle to put on the end of the pool hose to reduce opening and allow for better suction. Any ideas of something that would hold up with the heat?
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borat123

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« Reply #21 on: 17/10/2011, 12:13 PM »
Don't forget your pipe at the bottom of the bucket too...   ;)

And here's your nozzle:  (it fits exactly into the pool hose flange)




Muscles

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« Reply #22 on: 17/10/2011, 12:25 PM »
Cheers Borat,
I hadn't forgotten but was waiting until I decided on a Vacuum until chopping the hole.
I hope to be able to NOT chop the steel length on the vacuum though so I can still use it as intended outdoors... might have to hunt for a second spare part. I have to go into Good Guys today to pickup another Smart Grinder for the wifes decaf so I'll look at the vacs there and will finish it off tonight.

Do you find the same port works well enough as an exhaust hole Borat?
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Brett H

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« Reply #23 on: 17/10/2011, 12:39 PM »
Nice work Marc... be interesting to see what price they offer you on the Smart... I may grab one for plunger duties at school.  The old Lux is getting to be quite noisy. 

Kelsey may be selling his Smart cheaply due to some low-life giving him a bum home roast after a KKTO incident between 1 and 2 crack with a loose agitator and a minute or two's inattentivness  >:(  BUYER BEWARE!!!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

borat123

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« Reply #24 on: 17/10/2011, 12:44 PM »

Do you find the same port works well enough as an exhaust hole Borat?


Yes, it works fine.  I usually start the initial rapid cooling with the vac, then pull it out and switch on the fan to finish it off.

I used some pvc pipe from bunnings, and fitted the inside with rubber to match the diameter of the vac pipe that goes into it.

cheers.

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