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Author Topic: Just ordered a Behmor  (Read 21861 times)

askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #75 on: 23/03/2016, 05:29 AM »
I find that the afterburner does a pretty good job of reducing smoke, and i roast in the shed with a pedestal fan minus the base walk mounted behind the unit, plus window and door open for ventilation - seems to work pretty well !
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Cuir Beluga

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« Reply #76 on: 23/03/2016, 10:57 AM »
Not bad, splitting may be a bit too much heat between first and second crack.

How long to first crack and how long between FC and when you stop the roast?

Now I need to think because I have just been writing down the time on the timer...FC was at around 8 and a half minutes, 2nd crack was around 2 and a half minutes later. I hit cool just after 2nd crack started. My notes aren't what they should be, I am trying to juggle watching, writing and absorbing what is going on all at once  :P.

I've got two Plus machines side by side, and I couldn't be happier with the roast quality

I only ever use manual mode now but the presets are a great way to get started

I keep a constant eye on my roasts but still almost miss the shutoff timer sometimes.

I also consantly moniter the internal temperature as I don't like my roasts running hotter than 140C, and indeed if the afterburner runs too hot (around 200C) it can shut the whole unit down

I usually pull the roast at the first audible snips of 2nd crack, as it tends to come our a bit light otherwise, though the trick here is to be 'coadting' temperature wise or at least not running too hot when you hit thus  stage, so that you don't keep pushing the roast during the cooling cycle

Plus I usually keep the door open on the cool down cycle as it drops the temperature twice as fast

I live the temperature and the consistency with this roaster and as far as I'm concerned the quality is on par with a commercial roaster !

All the best with your new toy !

Pat

Crickey Pat, I'm struggling with just one  ^-^.

I have been concentrating on learning  the presets for now but as I have no idea what a hard bean is, what a soft bean is, what is high grown and what is low grown, I have been using P1 and saying a couple of Hail Marys.

I found a post on another forum where the poster posted what setting he uses for different beans so I am hoping that might help me a bit.
I'll try one of them next time anyway.

I have read about opening the door during cooling. Do you think it is worth a try?

Thanks again :).
Unico Splendor- Europiccola- Macap M2M- Behmor

LeroyC

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« Reply #77 on: 23/03/2016, 12:29 PM »
Most Brazillians need to be a bit darker so they might be just right.
I love coffee. It's as simple as that.

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« Reply #78 on: 23/03/2016, 01:04 PM »
Now I need to think because I have just been writing down the time on the timer...FC was at around 8 and a half minutes, 2nd crack was around 2 and a half minutes later. I hit cool just after 2nd crack started. My notes aren't what they should be, I am trying to juggle watching, writing and absorbing what is going on all at once  :P.



Morning Sue,

All seems very fast/intense to me, I'm looking at FC around 14 minutes approx 200° and SC 19 minutes approx 225°

Have a look at the attached graph, seems a pretty good all round profile to go by, can you manually regulate the heat settings to achieve this?

Whoops wont allow me to attach spread sheet, if you PM me your email address will email it to you. :)
Cheers,

Dry Bean.

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« Reply #79 on: 23/03/2016, 06:56 PM »
Most Brazillians need to be a bit darker so they might be just right.

Sorry Leroy - don't want to be pedantic but that is probably not really so true and in fact quite the opposite.

Personal roast depth preferences aside, Brazils are a softer bean compared to Colombian, African, Indonesian and Central American coffees. They are grown at lower altitudes and the varietals have less density and moisture levels.

The typical Brazil quality coffee is a natural or pulped natural. Yes, there are washed Brazils, but they tend to be less popular or available in Australia. Not sure about NZ, but if we look at the way most of the world order Brazils, it's the naturals that tend to dominate for espresso preparation.

Brazils need less heat and more care in the roasting - else they can very easily develop ashy attributes. This can be from any number of roasting defects such as too high charge temp, too fast rate or rise or too dark the final drop temp. The ashy taint is from scorching of the cell structures of the bean - like throwing food on a hot plate that is way over temp - it's a charring.

A typical blending mistake by many roasters is to combine a Brazil with something hard and dense for a pre-blend batch, only to discover that by the time they test the coffee, there is a charry-ashy note in the blend from the Brazil and an under-roasted or under-developed hard/dense bean.

Brazils of late have been small in screen size - 15 and 16 - making them even more delicate. I buy really high grade, expensive specialty Brazils and some of these have beans as small as 13.

The days of getting good sized 17 screen Brazils are pretty much over at the moment. Some blame the drought 14 months ago whilst others inside the industry know the real reason most of the 17 screen has been snapped up by a VERY LARGE GLOBAL COMPANY leaving the rest of us with the slim pickings of smaller screen sized coffees.

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« Reply #80 on: 23/03/2016, 07:32 PM »
Brilliant information as usual Jeff!  Many thanks for the much-appreciated lesson!   :thumb:
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Dry bean.

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« Reply #81 on: 23/03/2016, 09:59 PM »



A typical blending mistake by many roasters is to combine a Brazil with something hard and dense for a pre-blend batch, only to discover that by the time they test the coffee, there is a charry-ashy note in the blend from the Brazil and an under-roasted or under-developed hard/dense bean.

Interesting, and logical observation Jeff.

For better or for worse I've always shied away from blending and only roasted single origin beans, so have avoided the mistake you mention.

Obviously if you have a desire to blend hard and soft beans its best to roast them separately and blend post roast.

Something I had not contemplated, thanks for the insight. :thumb:
Cheers,

Dry Bean.

Old age and treachery always overcomes youth and skill. (Willie Nelson)

LeroyC

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« Reply #82 on: 24/03/2016, 07:26 AM »
Mycuppa has very eloquently pointed out that my last statement was a broad generalisation, even a little flippant. I was trying to allay CB's concerns about the Brazilians she roasted, but it's true that the terminology I used was wrong.
At this early stage in my roasting journey I've actually never roasted any Brazilian beans as I've been sticking to easier origins while getting the hang of it. But I've just bought some Brazil Paracatu so I've been reading up on the right approach to roasting them. Everything mycuppa said mirrors what I've read elsewhere - they are mostly soft beans that can seem to take a while to gather momentum during the drying phase, but care and caution is needed as once drying is done they can really take off. They are usually better taken very close to or just into 2nd crack to bring out the chocolate sweetness, but without stretching the gap between 1C and 2C and without going too far as they end up ashy quite quickly. Taking them to this point means they sometimes end up a little dark, which is what I was alluding to earlier, but this isn't a key indicator of a quality roast.
I take it that this sort of approach is what I need to aim for? I'll be interested to hear how CB's ones above taste. Did you use an auto setting on the Behmor CB?
I love coffee. It's as simple as that.

Cuir Beluga

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« Reply #83 on: 24/03/2016, 10:07 AM »
Most Brazillians need to be a bit darker so they might be just right.

I'm hoping they will be ok Leroy, we'll see.
I have perhaps enough professionally roasted beans left for one more cuppa and then I am on my own  ???.


Morning Sue,

All seems very fast/intense to me, I'm looking at FC around 14 minutes approx 200° and SC 19 minutes approx 225°

Have a look at the attached graph, seems a pretty good all round profile to go by, can you manually regulate the heat settings to achieve this?

Whoops wont allow me to attach spread sheet, if you PM me your email address will email it to you. :)


Will do DB, thanks.
I'm going to start using the other settings and play around a bit more now that I am sort of getting a feel of the machine. I'll have hubby look at it, he will know how fine tuned the manual controls would go.


Sorry Leroy - don't want to be pedantic but that is probably not really so true and in fact quite the opposite.

Personal roast depth preferences aside, Brazils are a softer bean compared to Colombian, African, Indonesian and Central American coffees. They are grown at lower altitudes and the varietals have less density and moisture levels.

The typical Brazil quality coffee is a natural or pulped natural. Yes, there are washed Brazils, but they tend to be less popular or available in Australia. Not sure about NZ, but if we look at the way most of the world order Brazils, it's the naturals that tend to dominate for espresso preparation.

Brazils need less heat and more care in the roasting - else they can very easily develop ashy attributes. This can be from any number of roasting defects such as too high charge temp, too fast rate or rise or too dark the final drop temp. The ashy taint is from scorching of the cell structures of the bean - like throwing food on a hot plate that is way over temp - it's a charring.

A typical blending mistake by many roasters is to combine a Brazil with something hard and dense for a pre-blend batch, only to discover that by the time they test the coffee, there is a charry-ashy note in the blend from the Brazil and an under-roasted or under-developed hard/dense bean.

Brazils of late have been small in screen size - 15 and 16 - making them even more delicate. I buy really high grade, expensive specialty Brazils and some of these have beans as small as 13.

The days of getting good sized 17 screen Brazils are pretty much over at the moment. Some blame the drought 14 months ago whilst others inside the industry know the real reason most of the 17 screen has been snapped up by a VERY LARGE GLOBAL COMPANY leaving the rest of us with the slim pickings of smaller screen sized coffees.

That is super informative about the Brazilians MyCuppa, thanks, they are amongst my favourite beans.


Unico Splendor- Europiccola- Macap M2M- Behmor

Cuir Beluga

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« Reply #84 on: 24/03/2016, 10:10 AM »
Mycuppa has very eloquently pointed out that my last statement was a broad generalisation, even a little flippant. I was trying to allay CB's concerns about the Brazilians she roasted, but it's true that the terminology I used was wrong.
At this early stage in my roasting journey I've actually never roasted any Brazilian beans as I've been sticking to easier origins while getting the hang of it. But I've just bought some Brazil Paracatu so I've been reading up on the right approach to roasting them. Everything mycuppa said mirrors what I've read elsewhere - they are mostly soft beans that can seem to take a while to gather momentum during the drying phase, but care and caution is needed as once drying is done they can really take off. They are usually better taken very close to or just into 2nd crack to bring out the chocolate sweetness, but without stretching the gap between 1C and 2C and without going too far as they end up ashy quite quickly. Taking them to this point means they sometimes end up a little dark, which is what I was alluding to earlier, but this isn't a key indicator of a quality roast.
I take it that this sort of approach is what I need to aim for? I'll be interested to hear how CB's ones above taste. Did you use an auto setting on the Behmor CB?


I'll let you know Leroy how they taste. I have been sticking to the auto settings and just increasing time if needed. I do want to play around but I don't have the confidence to yet.
Unico Splendor- Europiccola- Macap M2M- Behmor

askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #85 on: 15/04/2016, 12:28 AM »
I use manual programming, and up the roast time to 25mins just in case I need it - which generally I don't as I'm usually pulling the roast at the 17 or 18 minute mark

Then I start on P5 with increased drum speed, and drop to P4 when internal temperature hits 140C

Then I do whatever I have to do to make sure that the temperature remains stable at around this mark

And at rolling first crack I hit P1 for a minute for a power / temperature drop

Then revamp to P5 until first snips of.second crack

Then cool the roast pronto with the door open for rapid cooling

And I get terrific and repeatable results and fantasic coffee time and time again !
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Cuir Beluga

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« Reply #86 on: 15/04/2016, 01:08 PM »
I've just got a batch on cool now.

I'm still playing around with it, I haven't had a dud batch yet but I haven't yet worked out half the functions :P.

I might give your formula a go next time coffeeguy.
Is that for any batch size?
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« Reply #87 on: 15/04/2016, 02:54 PM »
If nothing else, roasting on auto until first crack then hitting P2 and C is worth doing. P2 drops power to 25% and for most beans this is enough to take you to the end of the roast (hitting P1 = 0% power and you need to add heat again at the end of 1C). Hitting C facilitates the 'Rosetta Stone' function which basically sets the countdown timer to an time estimated by Behmor and programmed in that will end the roast just before 2C in most cases.
But do try having a go with other manual settings. You'll need to do some reading online probably to work out what you want to do for your particular roast, but in general I've found it easier than I expected.
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askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #88 on: 15/04/2016, 04:11 PM »
I've just got a batch on cool now.

I'm still playing around with it, I haven't had a dud batch yet but I haven't yet worked out half the functions :P.

I might give your formula a go next time coffeeguy.
Is that for any batch size?

that's for 400g but the same principle will work on any batch size I believe - the idea here is not to overheat the device (which will d\shut it down if you do) and to catch the first snips of second crack on a lower (than 140C) temperature scale, as its climbing back up from 120C or so after the 'temp drop' so that it progresses easily onto the cooling cycle, without still cooking the beans

P
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« Reply #89 on: 15/04/2016, 05:00 PM »
Brilliant advice guys!  I'm still KKTOing and using olden-days Behmor once in a Blue Batak.  When I eventually decide I can't live without one I'll refer back here!! 
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« Reply #90 on: 17/04/2016, 08:54 AM »
that's for 400g but the same principle will work on any batch size I believe - the idea here is not to overheat the device (which will d\shut it down if you do) and to catch the first snips of second crack on a lower (than 140C) temperature scale, as its climbing back up from 120C or so after the 'temp drop' so that it progresses easily onto the cooling cycle, without still cooking the beans

P

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind next roast-a-thon :).
Unico Splendor- Europiccola- Macap M2M- Behmor

askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #91 on: 16/06/2016, 01:21 PM »
How's the Behmor going ?

I accidentally hit P5 instead of P1 the other day so instead of cooling down I heated the roast up!

It.took me.probably 20sec to figure out what I'd done and where I was in the roasting cycle,  but I managed to pull the roast just before second crack and it was just damned delicious!

Goes to show.that its best not to.make too many assumptions a out how things are done, plus I'm glad I don't have to repeat the roast profile because I'm not sure I could if I tried !
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Cuir Beluga

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« Reply #92 on: 19/06/2016, 03:17 PM »
It's going well coffeeguy, I was supposed to roast this arvo but I am too cold to move so it will have to wait.

Great save, it just goes to show that good things can happen when we don't follow the rules :D.

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askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #93 on: 19/06/2016, 07:11 PM »
I tried to replicate the roast today not by ramping it but by doing a longer temperature drop once it hit rolling first crack to give it more development time and it's too soon to say but colour is good and even without being too dark so I guess well have to wait and see !😉
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« Reply #94 on: 19/06/2016, 08:39 PM »
I'll keep everything crossed for you :).
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« Reply #95 on: 20/06/2016, 08:55 AM »
I tried to replicate the roast today not by ramping it but by doing a longer temperature drop once it hit rolling first crack to give it more development time and it's too soon to say but colour is good and even without being too dark so I guess well have to wait and see !

Saving the first one and ending up with a good roast was a great result, but as you have found, the problem with "serendippity" moments like that is that they can be hard to replicate. 

I've been there, done that,  had a few similar situations - usually due to lack of concentration and/or not taking enough notes at the time.

Let's hope the latest one is just as good in the cup as the first, so you will be able to repeat it at will.
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« Reply #96 on: 20/06/2016, 05:43 PM »
Well said DeeGee
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askthe coffeeguy

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« Reply #97 on: 20/06/2016, 10:19 PM »
The roast is 70℅ PNG and 30℅ Mexico SO and it's a bloody ripper!

Reminds me of a similar blend that I used to run with when I had the cafe - and the extra roast development time seems to have paid dividends

I actually decreased the drop temp to extend the profile and it's drinking very well at the moment

Watch this space !
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

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