Coffee Forum

Please login or register.

CoffeeParts

Author Topic: Roasting for levers  (Read 4512 times)

Kelsey

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 1969
  • Gender: Male
  • Third wave. Heh.
Roasting for levers
« on: 28/04/2014, 09:10 AM »
Since getting my LONDINIUM I, I've been pretty busy... too busy to roast for the most part.

Having Lamkin Lane nearby has been a godsend - an endless supply of beautifully roasted beans with an ever-changing array of single origins.

I've been spoiled!!

Now that budgetary constraints have kicked in, I've started roasting again - but somehow my old technique isn't working for me. Specifically the darker roasts that I've been doing just don't suit the lever as well as they did my pump machine.

The lack of flavour is obvious in its absence and ashy undertone is now vastly more prominent. It's still a good brew and guests seem to appreciate that it's "strong". But it lacks the clarity and definition I've become used to.

Fellow lever heads - has this been your experience also?


LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

Koffee Kosmo

  • Old Coffee Fella
  • ******
  • Posts: 4336
  • Gender: Male
  • Espresso Yourself
    • koffeekosmo.com
Roasting for levers
« Reply #1 on: 28/04/2014, 11:11 AM »
Roast to the cusp of second crack on your KKTO for lever machines
If you blend the beans prior to roasting you can remove the heat / TO at that point and let it - - the roast coast for better colour prior to cooling

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Robur & BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 4 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Lwowiak

  • Senior Barista
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
  • Gender: Male
Roasting for levers
« Reply #2 on: 28/04/2014, 01:46 PM »
Kelsey,

Levers are a lot of fun and require a lot of experimentation to get the best out of them. With the darker roasts, I found that using the standard double basket and dosing 14g worked well. Like they do in Italy (as I usually use a larger basket and dose 18g for most of my roasts).  Depending on the roast, lots of experimentation with dose and grind is required to get rid of the ashy flavour associated with dark roasted beans. Sometimes the fault is with the roast. I think that commercial roasters with adjustable air flow can brown  a bean quite evenly and not go too far into second crack, and thus destroy the "terroir"  characteristics. With home roasters, we tend to roast a bit darker to get the body and taste we seek, minus the acidity. Also, we tend to brown it a bit more to get an even looking roast. This is especially true with SHB varieties. My opinion only and I am probably wrong.

KK's advice is spot on. I do the same, turning off the heat as second crack starts and letting the baby roaster turn for 30 seconds, evening out the roast, and letting any "under-roasted" beans colour up and play catch up.

I found that beans that are lightly roasted, do not suit the lever at all. With a pump machine you can squeeze some flavour  out, but I believe the declining pressure profile of a lever, does not suit third wave fruit bombs.

I find that the more I roast, the more I realize that I need to learn even more about roasting.
1 Grp Bosco; Macap M4D; Gino Rossi RR65; FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster, KKTO.

mycuppa

  • www.mycuppa.com.au
  • Sponsor
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Gender: Male
  • 30 Golden Bean & RAS Medals
    • www.mycuppa.com.au
Roasting for levers
« Reply #3 on: 28/04/2014, 01:53 PM »
Roasting for espresso is different to roasting for milk.

It does not matter if the espresso extraction is via lever or pump machine - the principles in preparing the roasted coffee are the same.

ash

  • Barista
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Gender: Male
  • Sub-Tropical Bean
Roasting for levers
« Reply #4 on: 29/04/2014, 02:33 PM »
Kelsey,
Over the last few months I've tended to roast more of my coffee's with the method KK has described. For the most part it has been an improvement. But for every couple of hits there has been a miss or two! The joys of home roasting I guess... ::)

For my taste, if I hear more than a few snaps of 2nd crack, I've gone too far and I find the resulting coffee has that ashy undertone you've described. I'm finding that roasting for the Londinium I can be a slightly picky affair, as when I do nail a roast, the coffee is fantastic. If I don't, well it can be ordinary -> good. I'm putting that down to the fact that I am an enthusiatic home roaster and not a professional  :D And probably why I'll stay an amatuer!


Cows with Guns

Londinium I | Voodoodaddy Pharos Manual Grinder| Rosco Hand Grinder | Macap M4 | Hottop B2

Lacehim

  • Old Coffee Fella
  • ******
  • Posts: 2090
  • Gender: Male
  • NS Oscar|BSG|KKTO
Roasting for levers
« Reply #5 on: 29/04/2014, 02:55 PM »
My levers definately liked it on the darker side.  Any clandestino bean was way too fast, hard to control and when you did get a good pour it was lacking.  My own roasts, to just on 2C were the easier to control and pour. :)  Tasted good too.

I roast to just the first few snaps of 2C, and by the time I've pulled it and got the cooler on it's snapping away.

C-man

  • Old Coffee Fella
  • ******
  • Posts: 1198
  • Gender: Male
  • no such thing as great coffe, only a great cup
Roasting for levers
« Reply #6 on: 29/04/2014, 05:48 PM »
I am not much of a roaster yet,  but from what I have tasted

I think the trick is to let each bean speak what it wants.

If that makes any sense.
Rancillio S24  HG one bench grinder Rosco mini- Hand grinder,  Presso,  modded popper

galumay

  • Senior Barista
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
    • blog
Roasting for levers
« Reply #7 on: 29/04/2014, 08:20 PM »
I would agree with the technique of letting the roast run to 2nd crack and then fininsh with no further heat added - but that may well be a feature unique to the KKTO.

I also found that 14-15g was the sweet spot for my levers, and i now use 15g for the Izzo, the Caravels 13-14g is about as much as you can squeeze in anyway.

The other variable that i found helped bring the best out of the big commercial lever was running much lower temps that most would suggest. I experimented with this after realising how much cooler the superb shots were out of the Caravel and with the PID on the Izzo I was able to step up and down a couple of degrees at a time and test the results.

Currently the Izzo is set on 116 deg which gives only 0.7bar on the pressure gauge on the boiler.

So in conclusion its a mixture of many variables that got the best results for me, darker roast, finished slowly, pre blended beans, lower dosing, finer grind and lower temps.
Izzo Pompeii Lever | Arrarex Caravel | ES-2 | Baby Faemina | Pharos #001 | LIDO | HG-One | Compak K10 | AeroPress | Clever Coffee Dripper | KKTO Roaster |

galumay

  • Senior Barista
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
    • blog
Roasting for levers
« Reply #8 on: 29/04/2014, 08:24 PM »
Roasting for espresso is different to roasting for milk.

It does not matter if the espresso extraction is via lever or pump machine - the principles in preparing the roasted coffee are the same.

Interesting point of view! What is the difference in your roasts for espresso as opposed to milk?

As to your second point I think I would agree - but perhaps the roasting is more critical for a lever because of the way the flavour profile opens up with comparison to most pump machines? That is maybe its easier to taste the nuances in differences in roast profiles with a Lever?
Izzo Pompeii Lever | Arrarex Caravel | ES-2 | Baby Faemina | Pharos #001 | LIDO | HG-One | Compak K10 | AeroPress | Clever Coffee Dripper | KKTO Roaster |

askthe coffeeguy

  • On the endless quest for espresso excellence ...
  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 2662
  • Gender: Male
  • rancilio epoca (modded), mazzer SJ, gene cafe
    • hey brew coffee to you!
Roasting for levers
« Reply #9 on: 29/04/2014, 10:08 PM »
been dialing in the grinders at the new cafe for the monster 4 group bosco lever - tried a variety of coffees through the machine but Im definitely leaning towards a darker as opposed to a lighter roast

quite happy for the flame to be turned down / off prior to second crack, and a bit of coasting going on, but dont really want the beans into established second crack

by the same time I cant stand high acidity in my coffee unless its matched by fruit sugars, and even then I only ever want to be tasting a lighter roast profile as an espresso, not with milk

hoping to get on the 2kg solar roaster later this week at the new joint and looking forward to the results!

ACg
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

Beanz

  • Barista
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
Roasting for levers
« Reply #10 on: 30/04/2014, 08:26 AM »
been dialing in the grinders at the new cafe for the monster 4 group bosco lever -

Is this new cafe which is running the 4 group bosco lever open for business yet ? I would love to drop in and check it out

askthe coffeeguy

  • On the endless quest for espresso excellence ...
  • Global Moderator
  • Old Coffee Fella
  • *****
  • Posts: 2662
  • Gender: Male
  • rancilio epoca (modded), mazzer SJ, gene cafe
    • hey brew coffee to you!
Roasting for levers
« Reply #11 on: 30/04/2014, 11:48 AM »
Is this new cafe which is running the 4 group bosco lever open for business yet ? I would love to drop in and check it out

nah opening date has been pushed back to monday
"The crema which dissipates is not the lasting crema..."

Kevohere

  • Senior Barista
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
  • Gender: Male
  • Hi I am (not so) new here
Roasting for levers
« Reply #12 on: 30/04/2014, 01:47 PM »
The lack of flavour is obvious in its absence and ashy undertone is now vastly more prominent. It's still a good brew and guests seem to appreciate that it's "strong". But it lacks the clarity and definition I've become used to.

Fellow lever heads - has this been your experience also?

This had been pretty much my experience for a while Kelsey.
After upgrading from the Expobar Minore III to the Strega just after changing from a Bemhor to the more powerful CCR, I found myself struggling to reproduce or even improve on, my previous equipment's results.  :head:

I was not too happy with the roasts produced at the beginning, with the Stregas ability probably getting around the just acceptable roasts with a drinkable brew, sometimes VG sometimes just good, many times ordinary.
I had been (correctly) putting all this down to the "learning curve" phase that has to apply with new machines, but becoming frustrated with the length of time taken to "nail it".

And nail it I did!

My last roasts of Maui Mokka, PNG NCT, MoG's Nehemia Blend and Burundi, all turned out very good by slowing the roast time down, dropping the beans at the first signs of 2nd crack and modifying the back to back bean drop start temperatures due to the heat retention of the CCR. (Not using a bean temp probe at this stage).

Then, to complicate my understanding of what could have been wrong with those "in the cup" results, I also decided to strip down, clean the Mazzer Mini (well overdue it seemed) and give the Strega shower screen/seal a good clean .

The beans were 5 days post roast when I finished all this cleaning and to my pleasant surprise and taste buds, the Strega proceeded to pull some amazingly syrupy pours. All 4 roasts are just great!  :coffee2:

So, what event/changes exactly produced this appealing pour/taste is not clear, but I'm putting my money on the roast profile changes as the main player.

From the info on this thread, I'll be staying with darker roasts for the lever and go lighter for the pour overs and cold brews.

Thanks to all for your input.  :thumb:
LM GS3; Caravel; Macap M7D; BNZ MD74; AeroPress; Hario Pourover and WDC-6 cold drip: Royal Balancing Syphon; and several hand grinders. 1kg JYR Roaster.

Beanz

  • Barista
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
Roasting for levers
« Reply #13 on: 30/04/2014, 04:32 PM »
nah opening date has been pushed back to monday
I look forward to more information regarding the location, I am hoping it is Melbourne based

Bezzera

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
1 Replies
2596 Views
Last post 09/05/2011, 07:12 PM
by Meg
7 Replies
3604 Views
Last post 05/07/2011, 10:15 PM
by shape_shifter
20 Replies
7036 Views
Last post 30/12/2012, 04:21 PM
by C-man
35 Replies
13822 Views
Last post 02/04/2013, 09:33 PM
by derrilex
0 Replies
1348 Views
Last post 29/03/2013, 06:26 PM
by Steve_01