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Author Topic: What am I tasting?  (Read 7963 times)

Kelsey

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What am I tasting?
« on: 23/10/2011, 09:30 AM »
I've been forced to drink my home roast a little earlier than expected due to the non-arrival of my roasted beans.

At only a few days old they are very strong and have a 'round' very full almost citrusy acidity that is bearable, but not an ideal flavour for my espresso. I wouldn't bother continuing with home roasting if I thought this was the best I could do (I know it's not).

My wife quite likes it in her milky coffee tho, so it's not a total write off!

This particular roast was done in a popper, had FC at around 4mins and was stopped at SC that came at around 7:30. Times are uncertain due to some issues with timer, popper, chimney coordination!

The roast was fairly even, a few little burn spots but no major charring. 3 days post-roast and it's got a light oily sheen but smells delightful.

Not the best lighting, but here's a sample just after cooling:



Does my description help diagnose where I'm going wrong with this roast? What kind of modifications to my process should I make?


LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

Koffee Kosmo

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What am I tasting?
« Reply #1 on: 23/10/2011, 09:59 AM »
You just need to allow a little more time for the beans to degas
Everyday they will change a little at a time

I generally prefer 5 days post roast on most beans with some exceptions that taste best 10+ days post roast
KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Robur & BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 4 Hand grinders:
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Brett H

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« Reply #2 on: 23/10/2011, 11:40 AM »
Bloody brilliant effort mate!  What were the beans and was it the old Tempo/Kmart faithful?
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

WotB

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What am I tasting?
« Reply #3 on: 23/10/2011, 12:01 PM »
Popper roasts will always tend to be 'brighter' than slower methods.

Stick with it.

Kelsey

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« Reply #4 on: 23/10/2011, 12:44 PM »
Bloody brilliant effort mate!  What were the beans and was it the old Tempo/Kmart faithful?

You'd have to tell me - they were your greens! :D

I can't actually recall what you said they were - but Jus is loving them in Milk, even as they are.

And yep, was with your Kmart popper - would you be terribly upset if I widened the air vents a little?



Thanks WotB - It's certainly an interesting flavour, just a bit strong, looking forward to trying them again in a few days.
LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

shape_shifter

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« Reply #5 on: 23/10/2011, 01:10 PM »
The first time I ever roasted the Kenya Kagongo Peaberry was with the popper in basically unmodified version, the roast was fairly quick, I think all up only about 7 minutes and the result was an espresso that literally 'popped' in your mouth, was very fruity, it was incredible, I raved about it on CS...

...problem, I have never been able to repeat it, I still love the bean the way I now roast it but I'd love to be able to get that fruity result again, I think I might have to play with a really short hot roast and see what happens.  I'm still waiting to see what the stretched roast is like, I'm hoping the taste might be back.

My conclusion, love what you are getting now as you may never taste it again :D
BES900, Presso, Hario TCA2, Aeropress, Spong No.1, Salter No.1, BCG800, Kyocera, Behmor, UCR (Modified Kambrook Popper)

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Brett H

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« Reply #6 on: 23/10/2011, 04:37 PM »
You'd have to tell me - they were your greens! :D

I can't actually recall what you said they were - but Jus is loving them in Milk, even as they are.

And yep, was with your Kmart popper - would you be terribly upset if I widened the air vents a little?



Thanks WotB - It's certainly an interesting flavour, just a bit strong, looking forward to trying them again in a few days.

Go to it big guy!  Just promise you won't do anything electrically dangerous and you can do what you want.... I'd hate to have to answer to AM!!
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Kelsey

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« Reply #7 on: 23/10/2011, 04:40 PM »
I'm dangerous enough just shaping wood - wouldn't want to try anything with a risk of death through clumsiness.

And certainly wouldn't want to risk AM's wrath!

No, I thought that rather than disassembling the popper I'd just try and widen them with a bit of good old fashioned leverage. Might lengthen the roast times just a little more.

Shape_Shifter.... I keep hearing peaberry and I'm intrigued!
LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

shape_shifter

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« Reply #8 on: 23/10/2011, 05:25 PM »
Am I allowed to do this?  Delete if it's not allowed, brain isn't working well to remember at present.

Kelsey here is the thread from CS http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1298352793 mainly full of my ravings :D
BES900, Presso, Hario TCA2, Aeropress, Spong No.1, Salter No.1, BCG800, Kyocera, Behmor, UCR (Modified Kambrook Popper)

blog: http://nic.steve-tek.com

coffeehorse

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What am I tasting?
« Reply #9 on: 23/10/2011, 05:35 PM »
You sound like you're saying it's 'too bright' for your tastes. Degassing will mute this a little, you could leave the beans out if you want to 'stale' them faster? Could also dose down and maybe grind a little finer.

best,

CH.
Rancilio Z9 LE 2gr, Vibiemme Domobar Super Lever, Bezzera Domus Galatea, BNZ MD-74(x2), Hario Skerton, Hario TCA-2 Siphon, Abid Clever Coffee Dripper, Hario Pourover, NP, ACF, Reidels & some other stuff

Kelsey

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« Reply #10 on: 23/10/2011, 11:56 PM »
I've left it for today and yesterday so hopefully tomorrow I'll have a more palatable experience in the cup.

Damn those peaberries sound good tho...
LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

askthe coffeeguy

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What am I tasting?
« Reply #11 on: 01/12/2011, 03:34 AM »
I've left it for today and yesterday so hopefully tomorrow I'll have a more palatable experience in the cup.

Damn those peaberries sound good tho...

so what was the result of leaving the beans for a few days?

If I'm in desperate need of a caffeine hit and all I have is freshly roasted beans then I tend to leave the beans hout for an hour or two post-roast, before bagging them - to allow them to degas a bit

Likewise at work if my coffee has for some reason only got 4  or 5 days post roast on it, I tend to open the bag half an hour before I intend to use it - that and I have eliminated Sumatran and Columbian coffees from the blend  -  as I reckon these need ten days post roast to do milk based coffees justice...

P

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Kelsey

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« Reply #12 on: 01/12/2011, 10:09 AM »
It was better, but still far too grassy and bright for my taste.

Since doing a few more smaller roasts I've come to the conclusion that it's the method - a mostly unmodified popper roasts too fast to allow the flavour to properly develop. I couldn't get more than 7 minutes at most to SC.

Having had Brett's KKTO roasted beans, which are (as ShapeShifter will attest) a special kind of awesome, I've come to the conclusion that the method is probably only suitable to:

  • Regions cool enough to extend the time
  • The right type of beans for shorter roasts
  • Ridiculously souped-up poppers  :thumb:

Which is why I'm now building a KKTO.
LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

Brett H

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« Reply #13 on: 01/12/2011, 10:37 AM »
so what was the result of leaving the beans for a few days?

If I'm in desperate need of a caffeine hit and all I have is freshly roasted beans then I tend to leave the beans hout for an hour or two post-roast, before bagging them - to allow them to degas a bit

Likewise at work if my coffee has for some reason only got 4  or 5 days post roast on it, I tend to open the bag half an hour before I intend to use it - that and I have eliminated Sumatran and Columbian coffees from the blend  -  as I reckon these need ten days post roast to do milk based coffees justice...

P

I'm 94.3% sure that the beans were Mexican Finca.  They don't tend to be at their best immediately post roast.  I don't let my beans 'breath' as such... but don't tend to let aged wine breath too much either.  I prefer as opposed to letting them breath giving them mouth to mouth!  I do have the luxury of not having a line of customers out the door and working in g and ml as opposed to Kg and L!  I do have a wonderful temperament for service industries however managing to bottle my rage for 99% of the time before that 1% tips me over the edge and I destroy 100% of the patronage.  That's good right...?
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Kelsey

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« Reply #14 on: 01/12/2011, 10:54 AM »
I definitely didn't do them justice.

I'm still crying over not being able to have more of your special Finca 'surprise' roast.
LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

Brett H

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« Reply #15 on: 01/12/2011, 11:00 AM »
I definitely didn't do them justice.

I'm still crying over not being able to have more of your special Finca 'surprise' roast.

Was that the surprise roast that almost killed ya smart grinder?  OOPSie!  Surprise... an early upgrade! 
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Kelsey

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« Reply #16 on: 01/12/2011, 11:08 AM »
Exactly!  :coffee2:
LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

shape_shifter

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« Reply #17 on: 01/12/2011, 12:07 PM »
I'm tasting chocolate and cocoa at present.

Brett did the same blend two different ways, KKTO and Behmor, the difference is like chalk and cheese, incredible.

The Behmor is a chocolate surprise, the surprise is that there is no chocolate, smooth and rich.

The KKTO is cocoa with a bite, or the other way around really, you get the bite and then the cocoa which stays with you.

Which one do I like the best? I think it would depend on my mood to what type of coffee I was wanting, sometimes I really do want something with a kick and other times I just want something that will slide over the tongue.

I'm amazed at the difference the roaster makes.


Now after all of this I might be willing to try out AM's MM  :D
BES900, Presso, Hario TCA2, Aeropress, Spong No.1, Salter No.1, BCG800, Kyocera, Behmor, UCR (Modified Kambrook Popper)

blog: http://nic.steve-tek.com

Brett H

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« Reply #18 on: 01/12/2011, 02:58 PM »
I'm tasting chocolate and cocoa at present.

Brett did the same blend two different ways, KKTO and Behmor, the difference is like chalk and cheese, incredible.

The Behmor is a chocolate surprise, the surprise is that there is no chocolate, smooth and rich.

The KKTO is cocoa with a bite, or the other way around really, you get the bite and then the cocoa which stays with you.

Which one do I like the best? I think it would depend on my mood to what type of coffee I was wanting, sometimes I really do want something with a kick and other times I just want something that will slide over the tongue.

I'm amazed at the difference the roaster makes.


Now after all of this I might be willing to try out AM's MM  :D

Hi SS,  You're absolutely spot on with your descriptors (according to my tastes anyway).  The KKTO agitator that I have isn't mixing the beans as consistenly as the Behmor does, therefore there is some... admittedly small variation between beans.  I actually really like the KKTO outcome but then I like really dark chocolate.  I am so glad I decided to send you two of the same roast from different roasters.  This is one of the joys of home roasting for me.  Also, it's a great validation of the addage that you should try before you buy... whether it be machine, grinder or roaster.  The taste variations can be huge. 
Diadema Junior Extra PID, La Pavoni Professional, Compak K10 Conical, Compak A8 Automatica, Fiorenzato F5, Rancilio Rocky, Behmor 1600, BBQ Roaster (retired), KKTO

Kelsey

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« Reply #19 on: 01/12/2011, 03:38 PM »
Brett, don't suppose you could post a shot of your agitator setup?
LONDINIUM I, Compak E10.

Full disclosure: I have commercial arrangements with Bezzera (AU) and Londinium Espresso. I am not required to market them on this forum & any opinions expressed are my own.

Brett H

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« Reply #20 on: 01/12/2011, 05:29 PM »
Love to but won't get near it for a day or two due to work.  A nut screws onto the wiper motor shaft; a socket goes on the nut a shaft made from a filed down BBQ rotisserie rod connects to 2 BBq rotisserie pronged attachments. Ta Da! Pictures in a day or two.
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Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #21 on: 01/12/2011, 05:36 PM »
Love to but won't get near it for a day or two due to work.  A nut screws onto the wiper motor shaft; a socket goes on the nut a shaft made from a filed down BBQ rotisserie rod connects to 2 BBq rotisserie pronged attachments. Ta Da! Pictures in a day or two.

To keep this thread on topic please post your photos on this thread
http://www.bestcafes.com.au/forum/projects-rebuilds/kkto-home-build/25/

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Robur & BNZ MD74 conical grinder
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old boy brewer

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« Reply #22 on: 07/10/2017, 12:33 AM »
You just need to allow a little more time for the beans to degas
Everyday they will change a little at a time

I generally prefer 5 days post roast on most beans with some exceptions that taste best 10+ days post roast
KK
Being new to this forum, I'm learning a lot.  I have not allowed my beans to age for more than 2 days.  I'm pleased with the quality but an anxious to learn from those who age the beans and what they find different form non-aged beans.  I'll start to age them today but interested in knowing what the group has found in the difference.
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Koffee Kosmo

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« Reply #23 on: 07/10/2017, 01:29 AM »
Being new to this forum, I'm learning a lot.  I have not allowed my beans to age for more than 2 days.  I'm pleased with the quality but an anxious to learn from those who age the beans and what they find different form non-aged beans.  I'll start to age them today but interested in knowing what the group has found in the difference.

I stand by my advice to allow for degassing beans
As an exercise you should test each day and observe any changes

KK
Bezzera Strega Lever: Robur & BNZ MD74 conical grinder
Pullman Barista Tamper Convex:  Designer of the KKTO Home Roaster: 4 Hand grinders:
Web site - www.koffeekosmo.com
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com

Simon

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« Reply #24 on: 07/10/2017, 08:20 PM »
Being new to this forum, I'm learning a lot.  I have not allowed my beans to age for more than 2 days.  I'm pleased with the quality but an anxious to learn from those who age the beans and what they find different form non-aged beans.  I'll start to age them today but interested in knowing what the group has found in the difference.
Yeah it definitely makes a massive difference in alot of cases... And it honestly really depends on the bean, I wouldn't listen to anything saying it has to be x amount of days rest across the board for all beans. There are too many variables to how much rest is needed, and a range may be more appropriate.

I've found some beans too early are just incredibly flat, not much origin characteristics at all, and flavours are just bland. Others seem just too acidic/sour. And others I've had sitting around after completely forgetting about them, and 5 weeks postroast have been still stunning!

But definitely play around with rest times old boy brewer, you'll be amazed at the differences that can be tasted!
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