Grimac Eclisse two group compact

UNM

Thanks to the generosity of Bottom Line, I have one of these sitting in the back of my truck.

The machine does apparently have issues, so I shall  update here as I find them, but it may be a slow process due to time constraints and other projects in the pipeline.

Cosmetically, it is in pretty fair shape. A damaged side panel had already been repaired quite well, just a bit of extra reinforcing and some polishing needed. Metalwork has all the  usual scratches you would expect.
Inside looks rough - black in places, probably years of coffee grounds failing in and getting cooked on.
Pump looks pretty new.

No sign off any dicking around with wiring or plumbing.

Passed insulation and earth tests, but still needs caution and more checking before applying electricity.

Photos to come

Brett H

Living vicariously through you mate!!! Lots of pics eh... :coffee2:

UNM

A glimpse under The hood so to speak

UNM

A couple More. Controller box And control Panel. Apparently It had problems With some Buttons. Looks like i should be Able to Swap cables From left and right groups to troubleshoot.

Brett H

Love it!  Can't wait to see you work your magic on it!

UNM

While waiting for a client to turn up, took more of a look. I seem to have a broken leg, not sure but it was probably just loose and took some punishment going over  speed bumps in the back of the back of the truck. The plastic cup for waste water has a split, repaired with silicone. Silicone sealant also evident on plumbing connections at the pump. Pump pressure gauge reads two bar. There is a switch and wiring for electric cup heater, but none  installed. Control box has little white dots over the numbers 'one' and 'eleven' - date code? If so it  is jan 2011 or November 2001 (most likely). No sign of any bodgy wiring. Slight corrosion around heater element connections - quick check called for here. Teflon gasket and no water leakage at boiler. Water level probe slides easily - pinched between thumb and forefinger so I put it back to original level. The day it receives power is getting closer.

UNM

Grimy made it onto the workbench in the garage today.  Remarkably  light. It looks small, but I measured it and it is only 5cm narrower than the azkoyen. Bit of work with M10 nut and bolt to partially  recondition thread and I no longer have a broken leg. Tightened others just to be safe.

Brett H

I think the sere a BFC machine from memory.  If so it'll go as well as it looks!! NICE!

mycuppa

Grimac draws it's lineage from Rancilio which is why historically they were installed into Grinders accounts. Solid machine, reliable and makes an average coffee.

UNM

on 1370430681:

Grimac draws it's lineage from Rancilio which is why historically they were installed into Grinders accounts. Solid machine, reliable and makes an average coffee.

have to correct you there Jeff. It is normally the operator that makes an average coffee (and then only on a good day :doh:) Also, the reason I got it is because it wasn't reliable. So any words of wisdom as to why they make average coffee?  Looks to me like it has all I need if used correctly - adjustable rotary pump, boiler, temp control, switch, 58mm group. Still hanging out for a Caravel  as part of my downsizing, but this one is at least smaller than the Azkoyen so it is a step in the right direction, unlike the brute of a bezerra it shares the bench with.

mycuppa

Having worked with many machines of this brand, replaced quite a few and still supply customers who use a variety of this brand machine today............I think I may have some *real* insights based on experience and not making random flippant remarks like others can on forums because they might have *read* it somewhere else. Grimac and their cousin Rancilio machines have been used in both high and low volume cafe environments and the vast majority of them have not had any decent maintenance - with some suppliers adopting the fail/fix procedure which is a perfectly acceptable business practice btw !. San Marino/Wega/Astoria from the CMA factory are of a similar ilk.......reasonably good build quality considering the era, based on trusted technology and as we all know share many common parts. Some were built to a price because of special importer requests. I really don't care about a person's individual skill level as the general barista community have an average set of skills and when coupled to old machines that have years and years of accumulated gunk, worn or ill-fitting parts, or machines that are not calibrated correctly........it typically results in just an average coffee. The statement applies to the brand and era of machines - not yours.

UNM

You can always rely on me to make flippant  and opinionated remarks - one of my core skills I am afraid. :-[ Your post set me thinking. Having worked in IT support before, I do tend  towards fix on fail in most circumstances (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Someone on another forum bought a 2000 dollar car and intends to spend another 2000 on preventative maintenance. At those numbers and time off road it would be more sensible to treat it as disposable. There are exceptions though - recent issues with Volkswagen need to be  addressed  proactively as consequences of waiting for a failure are rather serious. So  far all I have done to Grimy is remove panels and inspect.  No point potentially creating problems until I know where I stand. Now, on to 'average coffee'. By definition an average coffee is going to be better than half the other coffees out there. As a business, choosing to make average coffee may be a perfectly acceptable goal.  Choosing a machine that can continue producing average coffee through years of abuse and be forgiving of less than perfect  technique seems like common sense. This reminded me of comments made on chat earlier in the  week -  I have always had acceptable coffees from establishments running an Expobar Ruggero, but more often than not, those  with Synesso or KVDW produce something barely drinkable (samples in Sydney CBD FWIW).  I think I know why this is and it is partly how machines are chosen, partly (ab)use of machine capabilities. My experience is that pretty much any commercial espresso machine CAN make excellent coffee under the right circumstances, just that few actually DO. Barista skills are certainly  part of that, although I expect there  are many other factors, some incredibly mundane and not usually considered by those of us outside the industry. A point to consider - if everyone made coffee to the current highest standard, it would all be average.

UNM

A Couple of views from tbe rear.  Note that all wiring is neatly  cable tied and Has not been dicked around with.

UNM

Grimy got power! Gave him 240v yesterday. Started to fill, kept filling, then water out the  steam wand and hot water tap. Turned them off and immediately realised it would be wise to stop pump too. Let's call that a boiler pressure test. Antivac valve, over pressure valve OK. Slight weep at heater element and sight glass under high pressure. Helps if auto fill probe is connected at BOTH ends of the cable to control box. Both volumetric touch pads go into program mode OK.

Brett H

IT LIVES!  Sounding better and better mate. @Jeff: thanks for putting me straight.  I've seen the one group Grimacs and any of the parts were similar to the Diademi Ive owned.  I s'pose this could be said for many machines. 

UNM

took the sight glass out for a quick clean as it was impossible to tell boiler level. gave it heat - 1.2-1.4 bar cycling. dropped pstat so it is now at 0.85-1.05. Takes a full twenty minutes to get up to heat at 1650watt. Left group weeps very slightly while idling. Anti vac valve was also leaking slightly at first, but settled down after a few minutes. Will monitor and see if the group also fixes itself after a bit of use as it has been sitting dry for quite some time - it will either get better or worse I reckon. set boiler fill to stop at midway between low and high mark. will need a bit of use to fine tune. The flow meters incidentally have a date code of march 2003, which sets the machine as being ten years old maximum. So what next? Need to fix/replace drain cup as it is split - might just make a new one. Need to monitor for any intermittent issues. I dont understand a couple of valves, so will take photos and ask for words of wisdom from others here. basically though, it all seems to work.

UNM

Mystery valves. First one is main valve, but what connections actually do what? Don't suppose anyone has a similar valve or knows where I might find a cut away drawing of it? Second one is a simple on/off stop valve. What is it for? You can see that it links to the main valve bottom left of image. If only I had schematics. Edit - found the inlet valve assembly and group schematics on espressoresource.com

Bottom Line

Should be the boiler fill. The push "button" from the front is the manual fill. Plumb the machine and push. You should hear water going into the boiler. The solenoid is the for auto fill. Bugger if I can remember what the on off valve is for.

UNM

Grimy currently works from a bucket so manual fill doesn't work, but that is straightforward. One outlet on main valve goes to waste water drain cup, seems strange don't know how/when it is used. One pipe goes to the mystery valve. Also got one inlet from pump, one on side of manual fill assembly and one more. Five pipes total. Edit: six pipes total, forgot about the one straight out the rear of the assembly On my azkoyen, there is a handy  'scald operator' on/off valve - also for boiler drain but seriously dangerous if opened when boiler under pressure. I know this valve doesn't do  that as I checked. In open position, everything seems  to work as it should.

Bottom Line

This help?

UNM

on 1370932119:

This help?

I think so. Will print and follow through all the lines on my machine, but it certainly seems like what I needed. Did I mention you are a prince among men? :thumb: Edit: Yep, that clears everything up. the mystery valve is the 'autofill exclusion valve' I have a very slight weep from the OPV, but that is probably just an old and slightly  dodgy seal. Once the Azkoyen goes, this becomes its replacement and gives me a chance to monitor for intermittent problems.  That will also return a corner of workbench and I can roast again.

UNM

Grimy No More! Machine is now installed and worked to pull a couple shots this am. I gave it a quick spruce up with some metal polish and replaced the cracked waste/drip cup. Then hooked up and put into service. First couple shots could probably be described as 'average' (you reading this Jeff? :D). I do hope to improve on that, but for now I need to come to grips with different group heads, different baskets, different temperatures to what I have been used to. One group head is significantly hotter than the other when idling - problems with flow through HX circuit? Also it doesn't have a manual start/stop button. I need to use one of the volumetric buttons. To prevent premature shot termination, I will ensure the long double is programmed for a large amount and manually control using that one. It sits with element off 100seconds, then 35 seconds on - running single leg of element 1650Watts.  Haven't done any tweaking yet as I want to get to know the beast first. Photos to be attached - easier to type here and add from phone later.

Koffee_Kosmo

Looking good in the photos Lets hope you sort out the couple of remaining small issues KK

Brett H

You guys and your bargain basement machines ... Kudos!

UNM

Couple quick measurements this morning. 50 minute  warm up. Changed to basket I was previously using successfully in the Azkoyen, dose as I used to (17gram).  Flow rate looked good. Slightly better than before, but still thin and poor quality. Second spot for my daughter looked better, but hard to say for  sure. Thermocouple on the top of group head (they are e-61 groups) reads 75 degrees on the left group and 64 degrees on right group at idle. Drops no more than one degree during pour.  Temp in the cup is 64 degrees.  Pretty sure  used to be 70 degrees when I used the v azkoyen. Wish I had a Scace type device. Next step check pressure with  different gauge. I think I will raise boiler temp a bit. Need to look up pressure/temperature tables first. Currently at 0.8-1.0 bar edit. boiler pressure raised to 1.0-1.2 bar. 69 degree exit temperature measured with my 'scace' (portafilter handle with a hole drilled in side to get temp at base of filter ). That was after 30 minute warm up will leave idling a bit longer and see if temp rises, then try making a real shot with good beans rather than sweepings - have been using grinder sweepings just to get flow rate down to normal extraction rate. pulled a shot with fresh beans after another 30 mins warm up.  Much more palatable but not there yet.  This machine runs seriously cool and ANY cooling flush just drops temp. Tomorrow I will be trying without any cooling flush to see what happens. As one group runs so much cooler, I guess I need to research servicing E-61 group heads.

UNM

finally got a few decent shots.  On for well over an hour, preheat cup using boiler water. Rinse and heat p/f with boiler water after a short flush through the filter. Load with three day old brazil/india blend.  35 sec extraction, 40gram in the cup from 17gram coffee. Well balanced shot. So next up is a bit of investigation of whats going on inside the group head and see if I can raise temp a few degrees.

Brett H

Sounds intriguing!

UNM

And now Mac is illuminated. Crap pictures, but does show the LED lighting on the e-61 groups.

derrilex

Do they make the coffee better ?  :rofl: :stir :stir

UNM

on 1373792363:

Do they make the coffee better ?  :rofl: :stir :stir

Previously the crema was a bit dark and occasionally bitter.  I now find it a bit paler and blondes slightly sooner so quite possibly. It MIGHT be subjective though, the jury is still out. Time will tell Regardless, just playing with it brightened my day which has to be a good thing

Koffee_Kosmo

Bling done tastefully is always cool KK